Ram sales down

[PetePA]

I would love to entertain other trucks as well. The problem is that Ram really got so many things right - more than my other options - aesthetically and functionally.

 

[Rammit]

As usual this company waited too long to do a refresh. The refresh is so mild, it won’t make much difference. Loosing the Hemi is a huge mistake. The 2500 is still a 4th gen truck. They starved Chrysler and Dodge of product til there is nothing left. Now they are not even investing in the cash cows of Ram and Jeep. The one vehicle that the hurricane would be fantastic in is the Grand Cherokee, and it is not getting it. If this company doesn’t wake up soon, they are going to be in big trouble. You have to invest in new product to stay competitive.

 

[lonepeak]

I agree PetePA and that is the dilemma for me. Really doesn't matter though if they can't bring the new models to market. Still no word on that and now into their 2 week shutdown. I would love to have a line worker or supervisor chime in and say something positive about why we are all waiting, like it will be worth the wait, quality will be there, coming after the shutdown, etc. The silence is not positive while 5 miles away I can get or order any Ford I want at invoice.

 

[Reverse]

Well, it's all been said before, but for me, I'm not buying another Ram (after owning 4 Hemis).

Reasons:
1. The insane price increases at Ram in the last 4 years. My 2020 Limited would cost me up to $15K more now, even after the $10k-$15K discounts going on right now
2. Other manufacturers have caught up in quality of interior etc. and compete well with Ram now
3. I used to accept Ram's (lack of) quality, because they were priced lower. Not true anymore, they now demand Tundra prices.
4. Related to 3. : I would never buy a new design (in this case the Hurricane) from Ram ever, not until at least 2 years into the run
5. Lack of base trim models - we're looking to replace 2 trucks, one a top trim, one a low trim - Ram is not interested in supplying Express-like trims anymore
6. Insane interest rates: we have stellar credit scores, but would still face 8% interests

So, we're investing our money in repairs and maintenance and getting off the new truck hamster wheel. We may eventually get a base truck from Ford or GM, they still seem to have them.

 

[BlueHemi1500]

Don't forget about the crowd that is carrying negative equity, my wife's salesperson told us people are flabbergasted when they discover how much negative equity they have accumulated from past trades and new purchase deals. With the higher interest rates, the negative equity is hurting and when quoted with $1,000 plus per month payments if they can get financing approval, they realize they can't afford it and end up walking away. The salesperson also said financing has tightened up, and people who used to be eligible for a loan are no longer. She wasn't happy because she wasn't getting the sales volume to make an income. It is a catch-22 in the automotive and real estate world.

We have seen this before and it all works out over time. What we haven't seen is this rate of inflation while in an economic downturn. It makes the struggle real for many more people.

I am one of those "Upside down" folks, my wife's car died and we needed a replacement that weekend. There was a leftover 2023 minivan on the lot and the dealer would not make a deal on the leftover that had been on the lot for at least 1 year based on the inspection sticker. So I bought my Nused truck, but did not have the cash to put down so had to finance the entire face value of the note. Now the used value of trucks has dropped so I am caught. Now I love my truck and it meets my needs very well. But I will not be able to afford a new/Nuesed truck for several years due to the "Upside down" status. I have never been in this situation and makes me very nervous.
I have excellent credit as in near the very top of the measurement scale. I am just under a 10% loan rate and the bankers would not go any lower due to the truck being a used truck, so the hook has a barb on the end to make sure I'm in financial pain. So I am trying to take a few extra pennies to pay down the principal when I can.

So, I am one of the middle-class earners who is going to be out of the financial game for many years, and the economy is in bigger danger if I am representative of a large group of the economy. There is going to be a large drop in disposable spending and it will wallop the economy far and wide. But eventually, the economy will slowly and painfully correct. But man there is going to be some rough seas to endure for us all.

BlueHemi1500

 

[MT755]

Well, with low interest they were able to raise prices and keep people in their monthly payments they needed. However, to protect residuals, they cannot lower MSRPs when interest rates rise. Look what is happening with Tesla.

Their only option is to throw money on the hood, which we are seeing more and more of now. Or offer lower interest rates, loosing on the back end. There is a lot of margin in these full size trucks, they can easily afford to sell below invoice and still make a hefty profit, but these days protecting their profit and investor dividends is going to curtail that a bit. Hopefully, as sales drop, those other things will help balance it out.

The only thing that worries me is manufacturers have been getting a taste of producing less volume while charging a premium on higher trim specs, this allows them to maintain profits while expending less on production, labor and materials costs. Gives the consumer less options however.

I thought heard that Stelantis was sending dealers new, lowered msrp's for some HD's

 

[BowDown]

The poster who suggested that most buyers are waiting for Hurricane motors is way off. Talk to any seasoned Ram salesman and he'll tell you that 8 of 10 buyers don't want a Hurricane, just yet anyway.

Agree that interest rates are hurting sales big time.

Don't see any more Ram "we have arrived" tv ads anymore. Since Ram got spanked hard by Ford, Chev, and Gmc last year, they have settled hard into 4th place. There's no doubt the lack of hemi for '25 will hurt even more.

These same salespeople that are often referred to in the MSRP thread that actually no nothing about the product, those sales people?
Those same sales people that tell buyers these $4-7K "dealer addons" are necessary and can't be removed?
These same salespeople and finance managers that try to slip in an extra % point or two on your interest rate?

Ram sales are down because Ford and GM were forced to do something about their interiors when the DT came out.
Ram sales are down because Ram salespeople and dealers continue to F people around when they try to buy a vehicle.
Ram sales are down because of the consistent service by a large number of dealer service centers.
Ram sales are down because of Ram dealers make the buying experience such a pain in the ***
Ram sales are down because "truck month" discounts are non-existent, there's no 25% or better discounts on current year trucks



I rarely see an decent discounts on higher trim trucks.
I don't buy the hurricane/hemi argument at all, sales are down because, Ram

 

[BowDown]

I hear you, I mean the only changes on the refresh which is several years late is a squintier headlight and surround and grill.

If you really want a truck where they actually do updates often, you're going to have to get a Ford, the F-150 does their mid cycles very much on time.

Yes their mid cycles are usually just headlights and grills, but they do look quite a bit different than before, whereas on the Ram this time it's going to be very hard for someone to notice.

Although I have to say this is very positive for somebody who bought a 2019, as their trucks will still look fresh well into the next several years.

IDK, ford F150 has generally looked the same since 2011

 

[BowDown]

I don't mind the 2025 refresh nor does the hurricane bother me and although I don't like the exhaust note, I can get over that.
What I don't like is the huge jump in price and the refresh isn't enough to make me buy sooner. My truck has an 7/unlimited max care warranty; I won't even consider a new truck until that warranty expires because of the current price and auto interest rates.

Ram needs to bring back the big truck month rebates they had before covid; an $11K rebate on a Limited/Longhorn was significant

 

[RedFred]

As usual this company waited too long to do a refresh. The refresh is so mild, it won’t make much difference. Loosing the Hemi is a huge mistake. The 2500 is still a 4th gen truck. They starved Chrysler and Dodge of product til there is nothing left. Now they are not even investing in the cash cows of Ram and Jeep. The one vehicle that the hurricane would be fantastic in is the Grand Cherokee, and it is not getting it. If this company doesn’t wake up soon, they are going to be in big trouble. You have to invest in new product to stay competitive.

I agree with all of this, especially that there is no product left. A few years back, there were so many Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, and Jeep products that I liked. Now I can't say that. The Durango was great but is now old as h@ll. The previous Grand Cherokee was a huge hit, but the new one seems to be a bit of a let down and doesn't seem to be attracting buyers. Charger is on the way out, Challenger is on the way out, Viper is long gone, the Ram lineup is getting stale even with a refresh. I can't help but think there are some dark days ahead. Why management can't see that, I don't know.

 

[RedFred]

Agree! That ridiculous passenger screen that is standard on the Limited and not optional actually has me looking at other vehicles. As you say with everyone having a phone what 3rd rate marketing person came up with that idea. You lose the space of the double glove box we had on previous models. Still looking at the Limited but with no sign of them actually being available I've looked seriously at jumping ship. Would go to Ford but keep reading horror stories on their 10 speed transmissions - The RAM 8 spd is rock solid. Stellantis has lost their way. Europeans don't know trucks. Convince me I should go to Ford - a good product in many ways.

Glad I'm not the only one. I can't get over that passenger screen. People are complaining about rising truck prices and Ram adds a ridiculous screen to the passenger dash. I can see that getting used once on the way home from the dealership after purchasing, and then never again. (Sarcasm alert: Great way to try and keep costs down Ram!) Meanwhile they can't seem to sell a truck without heavily discounting it, SMH. If I leave Ram for another truck, it would probably be the GMC Sierra, but I am having a hard time pulling the trigger on anything right now.

 

[JerryBsizzle]

My salesman is as seasoned as they come. He said it's interest rates. Discretionary buyers are running out.

I've owned four 5th Gens - 19 Laramie, 20 Rebel, 21 Laramie and now a 22 Big Horn. Now way in hell I'm gonna do these type of interest rates. Not really interested in another Ram at this moment anyhow. My 21 Laramie I had 0% through Chrysler Capitol, if they ran that again maybe just maybe. But Stellantis is ****ting the bed right now.

 

[Biga]

When interest rates are low it pays to finance when they are high you need to save up and buy the vehicle when you can actually pay for it.

 

[mzflorida]

I am one of those "Upside down" folks, my wife's car died and we needed a replacement that weekend. There was a leftover 2023 minivan on the lot and the dealer would not make a deal on the leftover that had been on the lot for at least 1 year based on the inspection sticker. So I bought my Nused truck, but did not have the cash to put down so had to finance the entire face value of the note. Now the used value of trucks has dropped so I am caught. Now I love my truck and it meets my needs very well. But I will not be able to afford a new/Nuesed truck for several years due to the "Upside down" status. I have never been in this situation and makes me very nervous.
I have excellent credit as in near the very top of the measurement scale. I am just under a 10% loan rate and the bankers would not go any lower due to the truck being a used truck, so the hook has a barb on the end to make sure I'm in financial pain. So I am trying to take a few extra pennies to pay down the principal when I can.

So, I am one of the middle-class earners who is going to be out of the financial game for many years, and the economy is in bigger danger if I am representative of a large group of the economy. There is going to be a large drop in disposable spending and it will wallop the economy far and wide. But eventually, the economy will slowly and painfully correct. But man there is going to be some rough seas to endure for us all.

BlueHemi1500

On the interest rate, refinance it with a credit union. You should get 6 and change for a rate with top tier credit. It won’t change your value gap but will get you there a few months sooner.

 

[mzflorida]

When interest rates are low it pays to finance when they are high you need to save up and buy the vehicle when you can actually pay for it.

100%.

 

[DEG]

If current interest rates are preventing someone from buying a new truck they should not be buying a new truck. Auto loan rates at my bank are currently 5.99%. On a 5 yr $65,000 loan at 5.99% payment is around $1250 per month. The same loan at 1.99% is less than $120 dollars lower per month. If that extra $120 on a $60+K loan paying around $1000 per month is going make the truck unaffordable, it was also unaffordable at a much lower interest rate.

 

[JerryBsizzle]

If current interest rates are preventing someone from buying a new truck they should not be buying a new truck. Auto loan rates at my bank are currently 5.99%. On a 5 yr $65,000 loan at 5.99% payment is around $1250 per month. The same loan at 1.99% is less than $120 dollars lower per month. If that extra $120 on a $60+K loan paying around $1000 per month is going make the truck unaffordable, it was also unaffordable at a much lower interest rate.

It's not the monthly difference that is a huge issue, it is paying an extra $7200 over the life of the loan. Your 65k truck cost you 77k.

 

[SD Rebel]

I agree with all of this, especially that there is no product left. A few years back, there were so many Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, and Jeep products that I liked. Now I can't say that. The Durango was great but is now old as h@ll. The previous Grand Cherokee was a huge hit, but the new one seems to be a bit of a let down and doesn't seem to be attracting buyers. Charger is on the way out, Challenger is on the way out, Viper is long gone, the Ram lineup is getting stale even with a refresh. I can't help but think there are some dark days ahead. Why management can't see that, I don't know.

Aren't they introducing a new Charger / Challenger with the Hurricane and electric?

 

[Darksteel165]

Aren't they introducing a new Charger / Challenger with the Hurricane and electric?

Who would buy an EV charger? And anyone who buys a 6 cylinder muscle car is going to get made fun of (rightfully so).
How good is the Mustang EV doing?

No more muscle, all import from Stellantis.
Way better imports to buy on the market.

 

[BowDown]

Who would buy an EV charger? And anyone who buys a 6 cylinder muscle car is going to get made fun of (rightfully so).
How good is the Mustang EV doing?

No more muscle, all import from Stellantis.
Way better imports to buy on the market.

The same people buying EVs now but want something that doesn't look like an oversized easter egg on wheels.

Supras have a 6, M's have a 6, I've seen lots of 2JZ swaps into mustangs and camaros; make fun of and laugh at them at your own peril especially if you're lined up with one.

That said, why are you crying about the hurricane engine in every thread? It's here, get over it