Ram sales down

[Dewey]

Interest rates and inflation costs of vehicles are obviously a big part of it.

I think another part of it though is the GMC/Chevy refresh.

A good friend of mine has a 2023 Sierra Denali that I recently got a chance to drive. Man what a nice interior. I’m seriously considering a Silverado High Country instead of another Ram for my next truck (my current truck is my third Ram that I’ve owned in a row and I usually upgrade every 4-5 years).

Chevy interior certainly is much more appealing now. I jumped ship to RAM about 10 years ago as a life long Silverado owner. After test driving a Laramie I was blown away by the interior. Now that gap has closed tremendously. No doubt that affected increasing Chevy sales.

 

[SD Rebel]

Chevy interior certainly is much more appealing now. I jumped ship to RAM about 10 years ago as a life long Silverado owner. After test driving a Laramie I was blown away by the interior. Now that gap has closed tremendously. No doubt that affected increasing Chevy sales.

I think only for RST and above trims. Lower trims still have that 2019 interior, which is honestly shocking today. I think the drop in Chevy sales also in part because they had parts availability issues.

 

[RVTRKN]

For us retired ‘curmudgeons’ that saved all out lives, never finance anything but a mortgage and only invest in treasury funds and CDs, those interest rates are welcome…

Being one of those curmudgeons, my last recollection on savings interest rates are still low. Our retirement funds are tied up in annuities and the remaining amounts are dwindling fast to keep up with costs of everything. I downsized from a 2019 Ram Laramie 3500 4X4 SRW after selling my 5th Wheel, because of its age and couldn't afford to replace it, even with something smaller. Thankfully the 3500 was paid for, so I traded it in for the 2020 1500 with $10K cash in my hand. Even not having a mortgage on my house, its hard to keep up with inflation.

 

[RookieB555]

There's a few things happening at once.

There's probably a group of buyers waiting to test drive the new truck and motor, then decide if it's worth it to go with the changes, or grab a deal on the last of the 2024 Hemi leftovers.

I'm sure there's a good size group that doesn't want the new motor. My brother in law bought the last year of the Toyota Tundra V8 over the new Tundra with the turbo V6, just because the V8 was tried and tested. For him it was peace of mind. I'm sure there's people like that for Rams and the Hemi, at least a percentage.

I'm also betting there's a large group that loves the idea of the new motor, but just don't want to be the first group to find the issues lol. They'll wait a year or two then buy in.

And good point, the GM refresh got my other two BIL’s to buy new GM trucks to replace their aging ones. Probably stole some sales from the relatively unchanged Ram lineup.

Add on top of that high interest rates and higher MSRP's and it's a recipe for low sales.

 

[RedFred]

I have been predicting that Ram 1500 sales will continue to struggle. I myself have been kind of disappointed in the refresh not really bringing enough changes. The truck pretty much looks the same as it did in 2019. Ram needs newer and more appearance packages to change up the look of the truck to offer buyers different choices. When I am spending $70k on a truck, I want it to be something special, not something that others have already had and moved on from over the last few years. I have been new truck and suv shopping for awhile, and the more time that passes, the more difficult of a time I have convincing myself to get into another RAM. The exterior needs a refresh, so when I spend that kind of money, I am not just driving another Ram just like the other 20 in the parking lot. At this point, the whole Chrysler (CDJR) brand doesn't have much going for it. I'm not sure what the direction is for the company as a whole, but I am predicting a lot of pain in their foreseeable future. Feel free to convince me I'm wrong.

 

[SD Rebel]

I have been predicting that Ram 1500 sales will continue to struggle. I myself have been kind of disappointed in the refresh not really bringing enough changes. The truck pretty much looks the same as it did in 2019. Ram needs newer and more appearance packages to change up the look of the truck to offer buyers different choices. When I am spending $70k on a truck, I want it to be something special, not something that others have already had and moved on from over the last few years. I have been new truck and suv shopping for awhile, and the more time that passes, the more difficult of a time I have convincing myself to get into another RAM. The exterior needs a refresh, so when I spend that kind of money, I am not just driving another Ram just like the other 20 in the parking lot. At this point, the whole Chrysler (CDJR) brand doesn't have much going for it. I'm not sure what the direction is for the company as a whole, but I am predicting a lot of pain in their foreseeable future. Feel free to convince me I'm wrong.

I hear you, I mean the only changes on the refresh which is several years late is a squintier headlight and surround and grill.

If you really want a truck where they actually do updates often, you're going to have to get a Ford, the F-150 does their mid cycles very much on time.

Yes their mid cycles are usually just headlights and grills, but they do look quite a bit different than before, whereas on the Ram this time it's going to be very hard for someone to notice.

Although I have to say this is very positive for somebody who bought a 2019, as their trucks will still look fresh well into the next several years.

 

[RedFred]

I hear you, I mean the only changes on the refresh which is several years late is a squintier headlight and surround and grill.

If you really want a truck where they actually do updates often, you're going to have to get a Ford, the F-150 does their mid cycles very much on time.

Yes their mid cycles are usually just headlights and grills, but they do look quite a bit different than before, whereas on the Ram this time it's going to be very hard for someone to notice.

Although I have to say this is very positive for somebody who bought a 2019, as their trucks will still look fresh well into the next several years.

As a customer, Ram should want what I want. If Ford is doing something, it's definitely working since they crush Ram in sales. I'm not buying a Ford, but Ram seems to be asleep behind the wheel, more so than usual. And the few changes Ram did make seem to be head scratchers. The new Laramie wheels look hideous, and then they added an in dash screen for the passenger on the Limiteds. Are either one of those things going to help sales? What's the point of the in dash screen in a world where everyone has a smart phone in their hands? It's like they are just throwing darts at a board right now with no real direction or vision.

 

[Darksteel165]

As a customer, Ram should want what I want.

If only Stellantis worked like that...

 

[SD Rebel]

As a customer, Ram should want what I want. If Ford is doing something, it's definitely working since they crush Ram in sales. I'm not buying a Ford, but Ram seems to be asleep behind the wheel, more so than usual. And the few changes Ram did make seem to be head scratchers. The new Laramie wheels look hideous, and then they added an in dash screen for the passenger on the Limiteds. Are either one of those things going to help sales? What's the point of the in dash screen in a world where everyone has a smart phone in their hands? It's like they are just throwing darts at a board right now with no real direction or vision.

True, though Ford has crushed RAM for a long time. Though it could arguably be said the 1994 Dodge RAM did usher the transformative change that full size trucks would become sedan/daily driver alternatives like they are today.

But in more recent times, until the DT generation, Dodge/RAM was never a front line contender with the F-Series & Silverado/Sierra. It's like they made a generational jump, got ahead of everyone in 2019 and then did nothing. Which if you know Chrylsers Group/FCA/Stellantis, is not unusual.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Remember that Ram sales figures are for DS & DT combined.

The low-price of the Classic has pumped up sales for years, but the DS is also losing its value proposition.

 

[dammitbobby]

Ram has something like a 6 months supply of vehicles on the lots and they’re still churning out new vehicles. The issue is the incentives and interest rates. I went to look at a 2023 limited a few months back maybe in march before the 2025’s hit the lots. I ran the vin for the truck with Kbb and a few other places that gave me a value of 40k for the truck with 100 miles on it. They still had it listed at msrp for 84k… I ended up getting them down to 61.5k but to me that still wasn’t enough. It’s 2 model years old and has been on the lot for over a year.

 

[Biga]

I hear you, I mean the only changes on the refresh which is several years late is a squintier headlight and surround and grill.

If you really want a truck where they actually do updates often, you're going to have to get a Ford, the F-150 does their mid cycles very much on time.

Yes their mid cycles are usually just headlights and grills, but they do look quite a bit different than before, whereas on the Ram this time it's going to be very hard for someone to notice.

Although I have to say this is very positive for somebody who bought a 2019, as their trucks will still look fresh well into the next several years.

Ford does well but I personally don't like the looks. Very generic and slab sided looking from the side and rear, they have changed the grill and headlights how many times now without touching the rest of the truck. The body was all new in 2015 when they went alumninum but they pretty much copied the same design they've had since 2004.

 

[RookieB555]

I have been predicting that Ram 1500 sales will continue to struggle. I myself have been kind of disappointed in the refresh not really bringing enough changes. The truck pretty much looks the same as it did in 2019. Ram needs newer and more appearance packages to change up the look of the truck to offer buyers different choices. When I am spending $70k on a truck, I want it to be something special, not something that others have already had and moved on from over the last few years. I have been new truck and suv shopping for awhile, and the more time that passes, the more difficult of a time I have convincing myself to get into another RAM. The exterior needs a refresh, so when I spend that kind of money, I am not just driving another Ram just like the other 20 in the parking lot. At this point, the whole Chrysler (CDJR) brand doesn't have much going for it. I'm not sure what the direction is for the company as a whole, but I am predicting a lot of pain in their foreseeable future. Feel free to convince me I'm wrong.

I would tend to agree. Price aside (since I bought in used) the only new Ram that’s exciting to me is the Ramcharger. Little grill changes and an interesting power plant. But I bet it’s gonna cost a lot and sell in low numbers, like a TRX.

 

[RookieB555]

Ram has something like a 6 months supply of vehicles on the lots and they’re still churning out new vehicles. The issue is the incentives and interest rates. I went to look at a 2023 limited a few months back maybe in march before the 2025’s hit the lots. I ran the vin for the truck with Kbb and a few other places that gave me a value of 40k for the truck with 100 miles on it. They still had it listed at msrp for 84k… I ended up getting them down to 61.5k but to me that still wasn’t enough. It’s 2 model years old and has been on the lot for over a year.

Ran into a similar experience with a dealer here. They had ten 2023 Rebels on the lot, all brand new, sitting this whole time, still trying to get $60k for them. Like how long do you want to hold onto these trucks guys? Lol

All the same, just the level 1 package, not maxed out options wise. Got them down to like $57K out the door but only if I financed through them at 10% APR. That was with the highest tier credit score. No thanks, end of the day I’m leaving with a “new” car that’s a couple years old depreciation wise.

I got my used Limited for $42k with only 26,500 miles. Sticker was $72k when it was new. Saw a few similar deals when searching. Hard to sell a new truck with silly dealer pricing games and high interest rates when deals are starting to pop up in the used market.

 

[djheywood]

Ya I think the interest rates are killing sales with the prices continuing to rise. What happened to the good ole 0% days?

 

[SD Rebel]

Well, with low interest they were able to raise prices and keep people in their monthly payments they needed. However, to protect residuals, they cannot lower MSRPs when interest rates rise. Look what is happening with Tesla.

Their only option is to throw money on the hood, which we are seeing more and more of now. Or offer lower interest rates, loosing on the back end. There is a lot of margin in these full size trucks, they can easily afford to sell below invoice and still make a hefty profit, but these days protecting their profit and investor dividends is going to curtail that a bit. Hopefully, as sales drop, those other things will help balance it out.

The only thing that worries me is manufacturers have been getting a taste of producing less volume while charging a premium on higher trim specs, this allows them to maintain profits while expending less on production, labor and materials costs. Gives the consumer less options however.

 

[n8zcc]

Ya I think the interest rates are killing sales with the prices continuing to rise.

Don't forget about the crowd that is carrying negative equity, my wife's salesperson told us people are flabbergasted when they discover how much negative equity they have accumulated from past trades and new purchase deals. With the higher interest rates, the negative equity is hurting and when quoted with $1,000 plus per month payments if they can get financing approval, they realize they can't afford it and end up walking away. The salesperson also said financing has tightened up, and people who used to be eligible for a loan are no longer. She wasn't happy because she wasn't getting the sales volume to make an income. It is a catch-22 in the automotive and real estate world.

We have seen this before and it all works out over time. What we haven't seen is this rate of inflation while in an economic downturn. It makes the struggle real for many more people.

 

[RookieB555]

Don't forget about the crowd that is carrying negative equity, my wife's salesperson told us people are flabbergasted when they discover how much negative equity they have accumulated from past trades and new purchase deals. With the higher interest rates, the negative equity is hurting and when quoted with $1,000 plus per month payments if they can get financing approval, they realize they can't afford it and end up walking away. The salesperson also said financing has tightened up, and people who used to be eligible for a loan are no longer. She wasn't happy because she wasn't getting the sales volume to make an income. It is a catch-22 in the automotive and real estate world.

We have seen this before and it all works out over time. What we haven't seen is this rate of inflation while in an economic downturn. It makes the struggle real for many more people.

True, it’s crazy. I’ve never done that personally but I have a friend that’s done that several times now. I was shocked when he told me what his little eco box was costing him, more than my truck.

It really bit him when the last vehicle was totaled in a wreck. He owed wayyyyyy more than what insurance covered. Surprised he was able to get another loan for so much over the car’s value.

 

[DEG]

What we haven't seen is this rate of inflation while in an economic downturn.

Really? Auto loan interest rates averaged above 17% in the early 80s during an actual recession that lasted more than a year. The fed has left interest rates way too low for far too long. It caused a housing market crash and it's caused massive inflation.

 

[lonepeak]

As a customer, Ram should want what I want. If Ford is doing something, it's definitely working since they crush Ram in sales. I'm not buying a Ford, but Ram seems to be asleep behind the wheel, more so than usual. And the few changes Ram did make seem to be head scratchers. The new Laramie wheels look hideous, and then they added an in dash screen for the passenger on the Limiteds. Are either one of those things going to help sales? What's the point of the in dash screen in a world where everyone has a smart phone in their hands? It's like they are just throwing darts at a board right now with no real direction or vision.

Agree! That ridiculous passenger screen that is standard on the Limited and not optional actually has me looking at other vehicles. As you say with everyone having a phone what 3rd rate marketing person came up with that idea. You lose the space of the double glove box we had on previous models. Still looking at the Limited but with no sign of them actually being available I've looked seriously at jumping ship. Would go to Ford but keep reading horror stories on their 10 speed transmissions - The RAM 8 spd is rock solid. Stellantis has lost their way. Europeans don't know trucks. Convince me I should go to Ford - a good product in many ways.