Ram Could Build An Electrified Ram, If Customers Request It:

[SpeedyV]

My response there was in reference to an infinite energy source (not possible). Extending the range through use of other energy sources is common and feasible. The issue you run into there is weight, complexity, and cost. I think I said it in another post, but you either end up with a basically worthless electric motor and a big gas motor (E-torque anyone?) or a worthless gas motor and a big battery. I don't think anyone wants a 7000 pound half ton truck.

Regenerative braking is the best solution currently to recapture some energy, and it should be pretty standard on all EV's. Another option, especially with recent developments, is solar panels in the roof. This comes into play with the bigger vehicles like trucks and SUV's with a lot of surface area on the roof, as well as semis. I see EV tech being huge for tractor-trailer setups where you can have the ability to recharge while driving and/or during their required breaks.

Driverless semi trucks could drive all night and park/charge all day. And range would be dramatically extended without the need for A/C, radio, or...a cab

(Same principle as UAVs vs traditional fighter jets)

 

[Neurobit]

That's my hope. I wouldn't mind a 10-15 minute break every 250-300 miles of driving. You usually spend that long anyway at a gas station, especially if you have kids.

Still my biggest hangup on an EV truck is range. I'm not going to get a truck that should have a bigger battery than a car that only has a 300-400 mile range non-towing. Towing, that means you're stopping every 150-200 miles at best.

A 15 min break every 300-400 miles

Driverless semi trucks could drive all night and park/charge all day. And range would be dramatically extended without the need for A/C, radio, or...a cab

(Same principle as UAVs vs traditional fighter jets)

All we need is this:

 

[hunter1234]

The biggest problems with that are cost, location, and energy density.

The US government generally isn't about free lunch, so spending of billions of taxpayer dollars so cars can have a longer range is a little laughable when we can't repair bridges and potholes.

Even worse, the area that would help is out in the boonies between cities, so you're talking about spending billions on infrastructure where a minority of the population will drive.

Lastly, and most importantly, it takes a lot of energy to charge a car or even fuel it along the highway. Doing it inductively means you have an electromagnetic field with hundreds of kilowatts of energy, which would make a fantastic heater, a shock hazard to road workers, and a great antenna... but a really "meh" charger.

Charging with a plug and HV DV definitely seems like the logical route for most of the world.

Definitely not there yet but I would not say it can not be done, do not need all the roads, perhaps major arteries with various power/transmission stations sending less power through the portion they power, the side routes could also be driven by the charged battery. Better solar cells could help power the grid as well as new transmission products- who knows in today's environment. Technology is changing faster than we can contemplate, items that are the norm today were not even in our thoughts 10 years ago and the pace of technological advances are still increasing, as one speaker once stated the minute you are reading this there has been changes in technology moving us forward and leaving you behind. Who would have thought that I now have a truck that can perpendicular and parallel park mainly by itself, maintain a distance to a car in front and stop the vehicle. It is passing me by, as an old carburetor guy that liked to get greasy, now you need an IT degree to work on vehicles. I am glad retirement is only a few years away and I can hopefully watch it all from the sidelines, perhaps with my flying car in a house using solar and recycled waste for power.

 

[Aseras]

I would be interested in a PHEV truck with a 150+ EV mile range minimum, and 300+ preferred.

I would prefer it be a small diesel engine that only operates when the batteries are depleted, or the truck is toggled to a hold charge mode or similar.

I absolutely would want power export of at least 50 amps 240V AC, Meaning the Truck engine needs to be capable of at least 20kw of load sustained indefinitely as long as fuel and temperature allow. This should be easy as even a Chevy volt is a 60+kw Genset.

I would also want at a minimum 50kw+ quick charging as well as at least a Level 2 charging rate of 8kw. Higher numbers are preferred.

Market it as a worksite power, home backup power generator etc. It will sell like crazy regardless of cost.

 

[Aseras]

What I don't understand is why can't they come up with a generator to charge the battery while in motion at all times. Lots of rotating shafts that could be used for that purpose and you would never need to recharge and have infinite energy, just 1 initial full charge and produce more than you consume with the onboard generator. If you can't produce enough that way, have a small auxiliary gas-powered generator that would kick in to help when needed. Something with a 2-gallon tank of fuel could run for about 8-10 hours or more.
I think the technology is there, it's just a matter of the egg heads and bean counters to apply it.

Thats called a PHEV. a plug in hybrid vehicle. Like a chevy volt. It only uses the engine when the battery is depleted or when you want to conserve the battery charge level, such as when driving indoors or up a mountain. The newer ones had a mountain mode that would overcharge the battery some to make up for the lack of engine power with the battery pack and operate the engine in a higher power delivery mode.

 

[Aseras]

I think a hybrid truck would be decent, but then you've got a truck that either has a pitiful 20-50 mile electric range (think Chevy Volt) or a pathetic gas engine because you have to put a 1.5L 4 cylinder in it. It'll also weigh about 7500 pounds for a 1/2 ton truck, compared to our current ~5500 pounds.

You don't need a LARGE heavy engine ( and the associated other heavy parts ). The "big" engines are the EV engines, and they are miniscule compared to a convertional gas engine ans it's cooling and heating systems and exhaust. The EV engines are where all your torque and power to get you up to speed are. The gas/diesel engine can be a small lightweight turbo engine that is designed to run at a few steady rpm ranges for maximum efficiency and lightweight compact size.. They do not drive the wheels directly they only act as a generator to put power back into the batteries. This is primarily how a system like the chevy volt uses, except in some cases it would clutch in the 2 electric motors to the planetary gear and drive the wheels directly for very specific speed ranges for maximum efficiency.

A typical PHEV uses a gas engine-> low speed EV motor -> high speed ev motor -> planetary gear single speed transmission.

The low and high speed motors can be clutched together to provide more power or one to regen while also using to other to provide power. During braking or charge sustained operation the motors are activated as generators and powered by the conventional engine.

Solar as it is now is a waste of weight. The meager 100-200 watts it provides doesn't make enough power to be practical.

 

[ajkeence99]

Personally, if I can avoid it, I will never own a fully-electric vehicle.

 

[LaxDfns15]

It takes a lot of power to move a 5500-6000 pound vehicle. EV's are typically 10-15% heavier than a comparable combustion vehicle. Going by this, an EV Ram would be around 6000-7000 pounds. A Model 3's battery alone weighs 1000 pounds to get ~300 miles. The long range Model 3 is almost as heavy as our trucks.

With a PHEV you're getting mediocre values from both. The EV "engines" (motors) are technically smaller than a combustion engine and it's components, but that's not where the weight comes from. It comes from the 1000+ pound battery stuck to the bottom of the vehicle. Even the 48 volt E-torque battery adds 90 pounds to our trucks.

 

[LaxDfns15]

Speaking of solar power charging EV's: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...IsVg&utm_content=95797682&utm_source=hs_email

 

[SpeedyV]

It takes a lot of power to move a 5500-6000 pound vehicle. EV's are typically 10-15% heavier than a comparable combustion vehicle. Going by this, an EV Ram would be around 6000-7000 pounds. A Model 3's battery alone weighs 1000 pounds to get ~300 miles. The long range Model 3 is almost as heavy as our trucks.

With a PHEV you're getting mediocre values from both. The EV "engines" (motors) are technically smaller than a combustion engine and it's components, but that's not where the weight comes from. It comes from the 1000+ pound battery stuck to the bottom of the vehicle. Even the 48 volt E-torque battery adds 90 pounds to our trucks.

I wonder what the battery pack weighs in the Lotus Evija (the lightest EV hypercar ever, at a total dry weight of 1,750 kg / 3,858 lb).

Granted, the range is limited, at 250 miles (or less). But it charges in <18 minutes. And it's (easily) the most powerful production car in history, with 2,000 PS (1,970 HP) and 1,700 N⋅m (1,254 lb⋅ft).

(And yes, it is very, very fast. Like 0-300 kph (186 mph) in 8.6 seconds fast. That's just ridiculous.)

The downside is probably price and availability. It runs >$2 million, and they're all sold out

Obviously, this is just a fun comparison. But let's roll with it...

If you were to add a heavier chassis/body and 2,000 lbs of additional batteries to the Evija, you'd end up with a 7,000 lb truck. You'd still have roughly 2,000 HP and 1,250 lb-ft of torque, now powered by a shockingly-large battery array. You'd likely get better range as a result of the additional capacity, despite the substantial increase in weight, while maintaining astounding power levels. More likely, you'd detune the motors to a 'conservative' 1,000 HP and 1,000 lb-ft to gain much more range...with the option to "crank up" the output when needed for heavy pulling.

In the end, as the cost of battery production continues to drop, EVs will become very attractive at any size.

 

[LaxDfns15]

I wonder what the battery pack weighs in the Lotus Evija (the lightest EV hypercar ever, at a total dry weight of 1,750 kg / 3,858 lb).

Granted, the range is limited, at 250 miles (or less). But it charges in <18 minutes. And it's (easily) the most powerful production car in history, with 2,000 PS (1,970 HP) and 1,700 N⋅m (1,254 lb⋅ft).

(And yes, it is very, very fast. Like 0-300 kph (186 mph) in 8.6 seconds fast. That's just ridiculous.)

The downside is probably price and availability. It runs >$2 million, and they're all sold out

Obviously, this is just a fun comparison. But let's roll with it...

If you were to add a heavier chassis/body and 2,000 lbs of additional batteries to the Evija, you'd end up with a 7,000 lb truck. You'd still have roughly 2,000 HP and 1,250 lb-ft of torque, now powered by a shockingly-large battery array. You'd likely get better range as a result of the additional capacity, despite the substantial increase in weight, while maintaining astounding power levels. More likely, you'd detune the motors to a 'conservative' 1,000 HP and 1,000 lb-ft to gain much more range...with the option to "crank up" the output when needed for heavy pulling.

In the end, as the cost of battery production continues to drop, EVs will become very attractive at any size.

A lot of assumptions below. I am not an electrical engineer nor an EV expert (I am an engineer though). **All weights pulled from Google/Wikipedia.

So the Evija's battery is 70kWh. The long range Model 3's battery is 75kWh. Model 3's battery weighs ~1000 pounds and the curb weight is ~4000 pounds compared to Evija's curb weight of 3700 pounds. Using that ratio, the battery is ~25% of the weight of the car, so the Evija's battery is probably ~925 pounds.

If you have a 6500 pound EV truck and the battery is 25% of that, you're looking at 1625 pounds. Ratio of 75kWh to 1000 pounds for the Tesla gives ~121kWh for the truck. Same ratio with the range, but let's say the efficiency is reduced to 75% for the truck's aerodynamic and friction properties you've got a range of ~360 miles.

I think the issue with a truck's range most likely lies in it being much less efficient moving down the road. Larger size, larger tires, more rolling resistance from those tires all play factors. So do you just put the largest battery you can fit, weight and friction be damned, or do you try to find the happy medium and hope truck buyers are ok with the 300-400 mile range? I think at this point a lot of EV truck manufacturers are shooting for the "Around town, weekend Home Depot" truck crowd. Not the guys that are hauling their TT's 1000 miles every other week. An EV truck would pretty much fit the bill for me in that sense, other than my occasional towing of trailers/boats. Every now and then I make a 400+ mile trip with a trailer or boat for my dad/family.

 

[Drewster]

My response there was in reference to an infinite energy source (not possible). Extending the range through use of other energy sources is common and feasible. The issue you run into there is weight, complexity, and cost. I think I said it in another post, but you either end up with a basically worthless electric motor and a big gas motor (E-torque anyone?) or a worthless gas motor and a big battery. I don't think anyone wants a 7000 pound half ton truck.

Regenerative braking is the best solution currently to recapture some energy, and it should be pretty standard on all EV's. Another option, especially with recent developments, is solar panels in the roof. This comes into play with the bigger vehicles like trucks and SUV's with a lot of surface area on the roof, as well as semis. I see EV tech being huge for tractor-trailer setups where you can have the ability to recharge while driving and/or during their required breaks.

Solar power on normal vehicles sounds real cool until you look at how 500W (pretty much all you can fit on the roof) is about 0.67 Horsepower. It's definitely a nice bump in cruising efficiency, but it's not going to suddenly let you tow a camper across Texas. Electric Semis could get about 80 Horsepower with all of that roof area, and it's a much more cost-sensitive industry so it definitely makes a lot more sense.

Something to keep in mind about plug-in Hybrids is that there can be some drawbacks depending on the implementation. For the i3 with a "range extending" 34HP engine, there's not enough juice to run all of the accessories and go up a grade at highway speeds simultaneously. It's definitely a step in the right direction toward a silent, green half-ton with 1,000 ft*lbs of torque, but it'll really come down to the automaker's implementation.

Personally, if I can avoid it, I will never own a fully-electric vehicle.

And why is that? Personally, I wasn't sold on electric vehicles until I rode in one. They're more smooth and quiet than a gas vehicle can ever be - the only noise is coming from the tires. Maintenance? Forget oil changes, belts, and buying new components - all you really need to worry about while you own it are brakes and wiper blades. Cost-wise, if you're filling up for $50 once a week, that's $200 a month - probably more than anything you're paying monthly for aside from your house and financing on the truck itself. When my uncle got a Tesla, it was difficult to tell exactly how much it cost them, but they estimated a $40 bump to their electric bill. Even if saving money and having the best driving experience doesn't appeal - who doesn't want 1,000 ft*lb of torque? Once the charging gets down to 15-20 minutes, I'd be all in

 

[1Zach1]

It takes a lot of power to move a 5500-6000 pound vehicle. EV's are typically 10-15% heavier than a comparable combustion vehicle. Going by this, an EV Ram would be around 6000-7000 pounds. A Model 3's battery alone weighs 1000 pounds to get ~300 miles. The long range Model 3 is almost as heavy as our trucks.

With a PHEV you're getting mediocre values from both. The EV "engines" (motors) are technically smaller than a combustion engine and it's components, but that's not where the weight comes from. It comes from the 1000+ pound battery stuck to the bottom of the vehicle. Even the 48 volt E-torque battery adds 90 pounds to our trucks.

A Model 3LR is ~20-30% lighter than all but most stripped down 1500. A better comparison would be the Model X Long Range which is roughly the same curb weight as most optioned 1500s.

 

[LaxDfns15]

A Model 3LR is ~20-30% lighter than all but most stripped down 1500. A better comparison would be the Model X Long Range which is roughly the same curb weight as most optioned 1500s.

Good call, I completely forgot about the X. I've been looking at 3's, which was why my brain went to that one first. The 100D has a 100kWh battery with a 325 mile range so my 360 for a 120kWh estimate wasn't too far off. The 100D also has a curb weight of 5421 pounds, which is about 150 pounds lower than my Rebel.

 

[1Zach1]

Good call, I completely forgot about the X. I've been looking at 3's, which was why my brain went to that one first. The 100D has a 100kWh battery with a 325 mile range so my 360 for a 120kWh estimate wasn't too far off. The 100D also has a curb weight of 5421 pounds, which is about 150 pounds lower than my Rebel.

Doesn't change things too much but the X Long Range is now a 350mile range. We aren't going to see 4-500 mile range pickups for 2-3 years yet IMO, but I think that's pretty reasonable with how battery technology is going right now.

 

[LaxDfns15]

Solar power on normal vehicles sounds real cool until you look at how 500W (pretty much all you can fit on the roof) is about 0.67 Horsepower. It's definitely a nice bump in cruising efficiency, but it's not going to suddenly let you tow a camper across Texas. Electric Semis could get about 80 Horsepower with all of that roof area, and it's a much more cost-sensitive industry so it definitely makes a lot more sense.

Something to keep in mind about plug-in Hybrids is that there can be some drawbacks depending on the implementation. For the i3 with a "range extending" 34HP engine, there's not enough juice to run all of the accessories and go up a grade at highway speeds simultaneously. It's definitely a step in the right direction toward a silent, green half-ton with 1,000 ft*lbs of torque, but it'll really come down to the automaker's implementation.

In my first car, a 1997 Blazer, I had to turn off the AC if I went up a steep grade.

 

[Drewster]

In my first car, a 1997 Blazer, I had to turn off the AC if I went up a steep grade.

 

[SpeedyV]

Doesn't change things too much but the X Long Range is now a 350mile range. We aren't going to see 4-500 mile range pickups for 2-3 years yet IMO, but I think that's pretty reasonable with how battery technology is going right now.

The Model X 100kWh battery pack weighs roughly 1,300 lb. I was allowing for 3,000 lb of battery weight in my half-serious assessment above, which would translate to 230kWh of capacity at the same density in a 3,000 lb brick.

And you know what...I'm not too far off the mark. Rivian is planning to offer a 180kWh pack, and GM has already announced a 200kWh version for its trucks (starting with the new Hummer EV). It'll be interesting to see the final specs on weight and range, but GM has already thrown out a 400-mile figure for trucks equipped with the new pack.

 

[Adrianp89]

Maybe I missed it but no one seems to talk about advancements in battery. Tesla has managed to significantly change the range of the Model S since its release, without changing the weight of the car. They continually find ways to improve range using the same physical size battery pack. Curious to what they will announce today.

 

[Adrianp89]

Maybe I missed it but no one seems to talk about advancements in battery. Tesla has managed to significantly change the range of the Model S since its release, without changing the weight of the car. They continually find ways to improve range using the same physical size battery pack. Curious to what they will announce today.

There ya go, they have essentially doubled the range of the Model S in 8 years. Some pretty impressive stuff announced today.