Pull Capacity Build

[ChadT]

The dealer sites has to have information off or using "canned Specs for all 1500 series trucks. I most certainly would not think FCA would specify Pulling capacities and payloads to Customers who are ordering trucks VIA dealers with a print out in hand of the orders with pulling capacities and payloads being false print outs on the order sheets. its most likely dealers are posting "Canned" Specs for the trucks for sale on the dealer web sites. Giving customers print sheets after making orders with false written specs would be some serious ramifications later from some IMO.

Canned specs help
BUT for the big companies ordering a lot in big fleet deals?
Different game.
GENERALLY those trucks are going to be the lightly optioned tradesman models, not ones with air suspension, moonroof, NAV, rebel stuff, etc.
Thusly by nature of the beast, ordering 500 of the same truck, and they KNOW what they're in for on that stripped down tradesman truck? I would bet professional fleet buyers are much less likely to have the "Wait I have a 10,000lb trailer, what do you mean my raptor's payload is 750lbs?" moment.
By that point they've probably seen that stock tradesman basetruck on a lot already, doorsticker is adequate, order 300 of THAT spec truck, margin of error of a few lbs is acceptable.

 

[devildodge]

I would guess On any of the configurators, and I know on the charts and guides...there are plenty of numbers at the bottom or end that say all the reasons why they are different numbers...I have posted numerous charts that show this.

And every single commercial says...When Properly Equiped.

Ford is the biggest user of the tow rating that now where near matches the truck they show.

 

[ChadT]

I would guess On any of the configurators, and I know on the charts and guides...there are plenty of numbers at the bottom or end that say all the reasons why they are different numbers...I have posted numerous charts that show this.

And every single commercial says...When Properly Equiped.

Ford is the biggest user of the tow rating that now where near matches the truck they show.

Yup.
There's a reason they got in on the SAE J2807 standard last.
They had to totally redesign the truck and lose what, 700lbs?
And they didn't instantly add 700lbs to their doorstickers...
That's called a clue.

 

[devildodge]

Look through the threads (this one included) everyone thinks they have 1840 pounds of payload


Cause that is the most common build by 33% of options.

11,340 towing
1840 payload

You will see that alot. Now go look at the guide and tell me what truck that really is.

A truck with 33% of build options.

A Laramie, Limited, or Rebel is not going to be close.

Heck some of the bighorns here don't make that.

Look at the tire and loading thread.

Most trucks are tight at 1400. Some more...some way less. Very few are even close to 1800.

I am out of this. I have no idea why manufactures aren't more transparent (because there are so many configurations) and I don't know why they don't show the truck that has the ratings (becausethey are not popular and cheaper)

 

[devildodge]

Yup.
There's a reason they got in on the SAE J2807 standard last.
They had to totally redesign the truck and lose what, 700lbs?
And they didn't instantly add 700lbs to their doorstickers...
That's called a clue.

Exactly. This is still more interesting to debate than MPG in a pickup though

 

[ChadT]

Exactly. This is still more interesting to debate than MPG in a pickup though

Then there's that Can vs Should debate on towing

That 4700lb light Ford F-150 might be rated for a 10,000lb trailer... but when happens when the wind hits it?
It's 4700lbs vs 10,000lbs swaying in the wind?
On a 3/4ton, now you have a 7400lb truck with big axles and stiff springs, huge brakes, fighting that trailer in the wind.

Every halfton buyer seems to think they have the truck with the specs from the commerical.
A 3/4ton that rides like a car.
Reality: If it rides really good, it probably doesn't haul like a 1ton.
The bigger components and extra lug nuts are not just for decoration.

As good as the air suspension is, the payload and towing specs are way below what most owners think they are.
The trucks are plenty capable, they are, but we have to be realistic!

 

[Zeronet]

The dealer sites has to have information off or using "canned Specs for all 1500 series trucks. I most certainly would not think FCA would specify Pulling capacities and payloads to Customers who are ordering trucks VIA dealers with a print out in hand of the orders with pulling capacities and payloads being false print outs on the order sheets. its most likely dealers are posting "Canned" Specs for the trucks for sale on the dealer web sites. Giving customers print sheets after making orders with false written specs would be some serious ramifications later from some IMO.

You can go to the ram site and enter your VIN number to get build specs and it will still show 1840 payload. You can print that but it’s still incorrect. Open your door and look at the payload sticker, that’s reality. Don’t believe it? Then go weigh your truck with a full tank of fuel, it will be even heavier than when it left the factory if you have added anything to the truck. Remaining payload (7100 GVWR minus Scale Weight) will probably be less than what’s on the payload sticker.

Same goes for tow rating. 17000 GCWR minus truck scale weight/driver/passengers/payload/hitch = maximum tow rating regardless of what any piece of paper the dealer printed for you.

Rated Payload and Max Trailer Weight ratings are variable numbers, not a static number. They are derived from actual weights and GVWR & GCWR. GVWR and GCWR are static and cannot be changed.

 

[ChadT]

You can go to the ram site and enter your VIN number to get build specs and it will still show 1840 payload. You can print that but it’s still incorrect. Open your door and look at the payload sticker, that’s reality. Don’t believe it? Then go weigh your truck with a full tank of fuel, it will be even heavier than when it left the factory if you have added anything to the truck. Remaining payload (7100 GVWR minus Scale Weight) will probably be less than what’s on the payload sticker.

Same goes for tow rating. 17000 GCWR minus truck scale weight/driver/passengers/payload/hitch = maximum tow rating regardless of what any piece of paper the dealer printed for you.

Rated Payload and Max Trailer Weight ratings are variable numbers, not a static number. They are derived from actual weights and GVWR & GCWR. GVWR and GCWR are static and cannot be changed.

Spot on

MY understanding though is that the doorsticker is WITH fluids full, oil, fueltank, etc.

 

[Zeronet]

Spot on

MY understanding though is that the doorsticker is WITH fluids full, oil, fueltank, etc.

That’s right. The weight of full fluids/fuel are accounted for in the payload sticker number. That’s what I meant to convey. Most trucks on the road will weigh more than the payload sticker would imply since most of us have added something to/in the truck, assuming you have a full tank of fuel.

 

[ChadT]

That’s right.

Ah I phonebrowsed, I didn't see the second half of your sentence - "If you added anything else to the truck"

That's one of the overlooked things.
Mods have weight.
The guy with the 800lb Raptor?
It's even less after the lightbar, AND winch, AND lift, 37in tires, etc.

Might be a GREAT baja vehicle after that, but a towing machine? Not quite anymore.

 

[Zeronet]

Ah I phonebrowsed, I didn't see the second half of your sentence - "If you added anything else to the truck"

That's one of the overlooked things.
Mods have weight.
The guy with the 800lb Raptor?
It's even less after the lightbar, AND winch, AND lift, 37in tires, etc.

Might be a GREAT baja vehicle after that, but a towing machine? Not quite anymore.

Yup, mods add weight. So do everyday items. For me that includes ratcheting tie-downs, rope, bungees, tools, air compressor, jump starter, gloves, towels, wipes, first aid kit, stationary, hats, glasses, bottled waters, tire repair/fix-a-flat... Adds up.

 

[ChadT]

Yup, mods add weight. So do everyday items. For me that includes ratcheting tie-downs, rope, bungees, tools, air compressor, jump starter, gloves, towels, wipes, first aid kit, stationary, hats, glasses, bottled waters, tire repair/fix-a-flat... Adds up.

Damn a compressor? What kind do you run?
I assume you're something of a tools guy, have a preferred tire PSI gadget?

 

[Ramit392]

I found the dealer websites are often wrong,. Here is a link to the 2019 RAM Guide.

2019 Ram Towing Guide Click Here

Thanks for the Chart. I suppose it must be canned specs. on dealer ads to fit all or most trucks and to much for them to research each build they have on the lot and post it. The chart explains all one needs to know. This chart was used when i ordered the truck at the dealer.

 

[Zeronet]

**** a compressor? What kind do you run?
I assume you're something of a tools guy, have a preferred tire PSI gadget?

Compressor is a Viair RV. Really speeds up the tire filling when you have 8 tires. I was always burning out the cheap ones trying to put 65-75 psi in trailer tires.

 

[Ramit392]

Then there's that Can vs Should debate on towing

That 4700lb light Ford F-150 might be rated for a 10,000lb trailer... but when happens when the wind hits it?
It's 4700lbs vs 10,000lbs swaying in the wind?
On a 3/4ton, now you have a 7400lb truck with big axles and stiff springs, huge brakes, fighting that trailer in the wind.

Every halfton buyer seems to think they have the truck with the specs from the commerical.
A 3/4ton that rides like a car.
Reality: If it rides really good, it probably doesn't haul like a 1ton.
The bigger components and extra lug nuts are not just for decoration.

As good as the air suspension is, the payload and towing specs are way below what most owners think they are.
The trucks are plenty capable, they are, but we have to be realistic!

I seriously doubt respectfully 7400 lbs GVWR vs. 7100 lbs. GVWR will have much difference fighting the wind while towing 10000 lbs.. I most certainly think the 4.10 Gears in 3/4 Ton will help control the weight much more than the + 300 Lbs GVWR on the 3/4 ton. I think the length of beds size of the wheels coupled with wheel base will play a large part as well. Personally when I ride in 3/4 ton 2500 Ram if rides very well with air suspension compared to the 1/2 ton with air suspension with HD shocks not a great difference in ride.If you compare an older 2500 1/2 Ton with non coils springs and no air suspension to a 1/2 Ton with Coils springs and air suspension the ride is most certainly a huge difference.Of course the older 2500 with exact same trim as the late model 2500 will pull less than the smoother late model. The 1 Ton truck has no air suspension and ride is by far different as it will manage 10000 lbs like its not there in the wind.

 

[Longhorn5G]

I seriously doubt respectfully 7400 lbs GVWR vs. 7100 lbs. GVWR will have much difference fighting the wind while towing 10000 lbs.. I most certainly think the 4.10 Gears in 3/4 Ton will help control the weight much more than the + 300 Lbs GVWR on the 3/4 ton. I think the length of beds size of the wheels coupled with wheel base will play a large part as well. Personally when I ride in 3/4 ton 2500 Ram if rides very well with air suspension compared to the 1/2 ton with air suspension with HD shocks not a great difference in ride.If you compare an older 2500 1/2 Ton with non coils springs and no air suspension to a 1/2 Ton with Coils springs and air suspension the ride is most certainly a huge difference.Of course the older 2500 with exact same trim as the late model 2500 will pull less than the smoother late model. The 1 Ton truck has no air suspension and ride is by far different as it will manage 10000 lbs like its not there in the wind.

This looks like an SAT question at first glance. I already knew Id get it wrong seeing all those numbers.

But after I read it, i realized all it did was make me want a 2500 now.

 

[devildodge]

He didnt say 7100 GVWR vs 7400 GVWR. He said 4700 pounds vs 7400 pounds.


The GVWR difference would be 7100 for 1500 and 10000 GVWR for 2500...huge difference.

The 2500 has the GVWR, which is what the truck weighs of the camperbeing hauled in the explanation.

And if you read that chart they showed you would have seen that it was based on type of truck not trim of truck.

Many many many variables between trims. And limited is 90 to 100% of options...much more than 33%

 

[devildodge]

some numbers for tomorrow's contemplating

99 Ram 2500 4x4 V10 Quad cab shortbed

Curb weight 6276
GVWR 8800
GCVWR 19000
trailer 12700
Payload 3080?

My trip to the scales...just me and the junk in the truck...6620

Til the morning...

2013 Ram 2500 crew shortbed 6.7 Cummins auto 4x4

Curb weight 7463
GVWR 10000
GCVWR 24000
Trailer 16370
Payload 2600

My trip to scales with me 5 other passengers and our stuff...8170

2019 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 6'4" bed 4x4 Hemi 3.92 gear

Curb weight 5354
GVWR 7100
GCVWR 17000
trailer 11180
Payload 1750

Note: in Pa class 2 registration is 7000 lbs, so to be legal would have to go class 3 for 100 lbs...that

And I have no real world data yet.

There are th the differences between a 2nd Gen 2500, a 4th Gen 2500 and the new 5th Gen 1500

The new 1500 is impressive compared to 20 years ago...but still not the truck for larger loads.

And the owners manual from back then gives max tongue weight, GVWR and GCWR. Anything over 10000lbs had to be on a fifth wheel.

Basically the hitches grew to help with these bigger loads

 

[ChadT]

I seriously doubt respectfully 7400 lbs GVWR vs. 7100 lbs. GVWR will have much difference fighting the wind while towing 10000 lbs.. I most certainly think the 4.10 Gears in 3/4 Ton will help control the weight much more than the + 300 Lbs GVWR on the 3/4 ton. I think the length of beds size of the wheels coupled with wheel base will play a large part as well. Personally when I ride in 3/4 ton 2500 Ram if rides very well with air suspension compared to the 1/2 ton with air suspension with HD shocks not a great difference in ride.If you compare an older 2500 1/2 Ton with non coils springs and no air suspension to a 1/2 Ton with Coils springs and air suspension the ride is most certainly a huge difference.Of course the older 2500 with exact same trim as the late model 2500 will pull less than the smoother late model. The 1 Ton truck has no air suspension and ride is by far different as it will manage 10000 lbs like its not there in the wind.

Clarification on your post there - a vehicle that has a 7100lb GWVR is different from a 3/4ton that weighs 7400lbs, empty. Very different.

 

[devildodge]

And the 1ton(3500) can be had with air suspension just as the 2500(3/4 ton)

Just in case this wasn't known...it isn't 4 corner like the 1500, just the rear though.