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Price negotiated from MSRP

Sir Ramcelot

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I think you might be going off of what I put as the prefered purchase plan or PP of $51,815. That the starting point with the corp discount of 1% below dealer invoice.
I think I'm around 13%. 40,796 +7,500 trade-in = the total price of 48,296 after taxes and fees and whatnot.

Does that seem better or am I still getting hosed?

Thanks for all your help!

View attachment 61836

I'm saying the typical 8-10% is dealer discount BEFORE any rebates. In your case the price of your truck is $51,815 vs the MSRP of $55,555 BEFORE rebates, trade, etc. 51815/55555 = 6.73% off sticker. It does appear "User Fee" is sales tax but I've just never seen it listed that way before. I wouldn't pay $199 for wheel locks (complete rip-off to be honest).
 

Sir Ramcelot

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I think you might be going off of what I put as the prefered purchase plan or PP of $51,815. That the starting point with the corp discount of 1% below dealer invoice.
I think I'm around 13%. 40,796 +7,500 trade-in = the total price of 48,296 after taxes and fees and whatnot.

Does that seem better or am I still getting hosed?

Thanks for all your help!

View attachment 61836

Here's a few examples here in TX right now just to give you an idea.


$7,042 dealer discount on a MSRP of $55,650 BEFORE rebates (12.65% off BEFORE rebates)


$7,021 dealer discount on MSRP of $55,650 BEFORE rebates (12.62% off BEFORE rebates)

Here's a Laramie for comparison.


$8,323 dealer discount on MSRP of $57,450 BEFORE rebates (14.49% off BEFORE rebates)
 

HellaHarry

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I'm saying the typical 8-10% is dealer discount BEFORE any rebates. In your case the price of your truck is $51,815 vs the MSRP of $55,555 BEFORE rebates, trade, etc. 51815/55555 = 6.73% off sticker. It does appear "User Fee" is sales tax but I've just never seen it listed that way before. I wouldn't pay $199 for wheel locks (complete rip-off to be honest).

Oh man, I missed where you had said 13% BEFORE rebates. I'm def way behind.
 

Sir Ramcelot

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Oh man, I missed where you had said 13% BEFORE rebates. I'm def way behind.

Just look at a few examples I posted two posts ago that are actual trucks for sale and you can see dealer discounts. Only you can decide what you're good with at the end of the day but people here will help you out where we can.
 

HellaHarry

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At the risk of sounding nieve, where does the dealer get this extra 6-7K for dealer discounts before rebates? Part of the corp program they show you the invoice of what they pay. I called the sales guy before I realized it was BEFORE rebates and it didn't go well hahah. Do some regions get better pricing or have more room for these "dealer discounts"?
 

The Critic

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At the risk of sounding nieve, where does the dealer get this extra 6-7K for dealer discounts before rebates? Part of the corp program they show you the invoice of what they pay. I called the sales guy before I realized it was BEFORE rebates and it didn't go well hahah. Do some regions get better pricing or have more room for these "dealer discounts"?

It depends on the dealer’s operating philosophy. Some dealers choose to lose money on the truck itself but make up for the difference in warranties, finance and add-on’s. Plus there are volume bonuses by month/quarter as well.

Other dealers choose to make a small amount on each vehicle.
 

Sir Ramcelot

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At the risk of sounding nieve, where does the dealer get this extra 6-7K for dealer discounts before rebates? Part of the corp program they show you the invoice of what they pay. I called the sales guy before I realized it was BEFORE rebates and it didn't go well hahah. Do some regions get better pricing or have more room for these "dealer discounts"?

That invoice is NOT what the dealer pays. There are lots of info if you search that show since 1995, the dealers and sites like Edmunds, True Car, etc. got together and slowly started increasing “invoice” since many savy shoppers were using the “invoice minus holdback” deal on a car. The dealer discount has NOTHING to do with rebates or regions and isn’t controlled by FCA.
 

SCasey89

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As Heminator said, "invoice" is not what the dealer pays. In fact, as buyers have become smarter and figured out numbers such as "invoice", dealer holdback, etc. "invoice" pricing has become this arbitrary number so dealers can still make some profit. That being said, the Dealer Discount is a discount that the dealer will put on a truck that is separate from manufacturer rebates/incentives. Dealer Discount will always vary from dealer to dealer. Here in California, I've seen dealer discounts range from $1,000 all the way to $6 or $7,000.

With the corporation discount you have, you're "locked-in" deal is 1% under "invoice." That "invoice" amount is what's listed on the truck's build sheet that your dealer can print out for you, then the dealer will subtract 1% of that amount. If the dealer won't show you this build sheet with the "invoice" pricing, you can build the exact truck you're looking at here (https://www.thecarconnection.com/price/ram_1500_2020) which will give you MSRP and "Invoice."

Unfortunately, and this is just in my experience, if you play your corporation discount card right off the bat, the dealer won't budge from that discount. That's as good as you're going to get...that is, 1% under "invoice" plus all applicable manufacturer incentives/rebates. You most-likely won't get a dealer discount on top of that corporation discount, because in the dealer's eyes you're already getting a discount (that discount is the difference between MSRP and "invoice") so why should they offer an additional dealer discount. If you withhold that little bit of information at the beginning, you keep the upper hand in negotiating power, and might be able to negotiate a better price than you could have gotten with just the corporation discount. Not saying that will always happen, and if negotiations aren't happening, then you can either a) find a new dealer to work with or b) pull your corporation discount card and the dealer will have to honor that.

Sorry if I completely lost you haha
 

HellaHarry

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As Heminator said, "invoice" is not what the dealer pays. In fact, as buyers have become smarter and figured out numbers such as "invoice", dealer holdback, etc. "invoice" pricing has become this arbitrary number so dealers can still make some profit. That being said, the Dealer Discount is a discount that the dealer will put on a truck that is separate from manufacturer rebates/incentives. Dealer Discount will always vary from dealer to dealer. Here in California, I've seen dealer discounts range from $1,000 all the way to $6 or $7,000.

With the corporation discount you have, you're "locked-in" deal is 1% under "invoice." That "invoice" amount is what's listed on the truck's build sheet that your dealer can print out for you, then the dealer will subtract 1% of that amount. If the dealer won't show you this build sheet with the "invoice" pricing, you can build the exact truck you're looking at here (https://www.thecarconnection.com/price/ram_1500_2020) which will give you MSRP and "Invoice."

Unfortunately, and this is just in my experience, if you play your corporation discount card right off the bat, the dealer won't budge from that discount. That's as good as you're going to get...that is, 1% under "invoice" plus all applicable manufacturer incentives/rebates. You most-likely won't get a dealer discount on top of that corporation discount, because in the dealer's eyes you're already getting a discount (that discount is the difference between MSRP and "invoice") so why should they offer an additional dealer discount. If you withhold that little bit of information at the beginning, you keep the upper hand in negotiating power, and might be able to negotiate a better price than you could have gotten with just the corporation discount. Not saying that will always happen, and if negotiations aren't happening, then you can either a) find a new dealer to work with or b) pull your corporation discount card and the dealer will have to honor that.

Sorry if I completely lost you haha

No no, I follow you for sure. Problem is, what should I do now. I like the truck although as others pointed out, at some point I should have just looked at the Laramie. Yet, I feel kinda icky about moving forward as I know I haven't gotten a great deal. Not to mention, I still haven't had the financing conversation yet and I'm not confident that will go well. 1,500 in rebates was conditional on me using Chrysler financing.

What do I do now?
 

Sir Ramcelot

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No no, I follow you for sure. Problem is, what should I do now. I like the truck although as others pointed out, at some point I should have just looked at the Laramie. Yet, I feel kinda icky about moving forward as I know I haven't gotten a great deal. Not to mention, I still haven't had the financing conversation yet and I'm not confident that will go well. 1,500 in rebates was conditional on me using Chrysler financing.

What do I do now?

If you aren’t comfortable, walk. It’s your money. My suggestion would just be to never give a deposit on a “lot” truck (only on orders obviously). You seemed to state there are some things missing from the truck that a Laramie would have. It’s a big purchase so make sure you’re happy.
 

SCasey89

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No no, I follow you for sure. Problem is, what should I do now. I like the truck although as others pointed out, at some point I should have just looked at the Laramie. Yet, I feel kinda icky about moving forward as I know I haven't gotten a great deal. Not to mention, I still haven't had the financing conversation yet and I'm not confident that will go well. 1,500 in rebates was conditional on me using Chrysler financing.

What do I do now?

If I recall correctly, you already placed a deposit? So that kinda makes just walking away at this point a little more difficult. If you are able to get your deposit back, I would walk away at this point. Since you feel like you should have maybe looked at the Laramie, this is your chance to do that now. The Night Edition is available on the Laramie, so I'd either build or look for a Laramie with this package and other options you're looking for and see if it's within your budget. If it is, continue your search just for a Laramie. If not, then stick with the Big Horn.

Granted, the Laramie won't have as good of manufacturer incentives/rebates. The Big Horns will always come out on top as far as getting the best manufacturer incentives/rebates.

Lastly, we are in a weird time right now as far as automotive sales and manufacturer rebates, incentives, etc. The truth is, deals aren't as good right now as they were a few months ago. Manufacturer rebates/incentives also aren't as good right now as they were a few months ago. Looking at your current deal with the Big Horn, with the corporation discount, you are essentially getting a roughly $3,000 to $3,500 "dealer discount." This is the difference between MSRP and "Invoice" which for a truck with an MSRP of $55K that difference is in this ballpark. Again, remember, you won't be getting a dealer discount on top of the corporation discount in your situation. But comparing your situation to if you were John Smith just a regular buyer without the corporation discount, this discount you're entitled to is the same as John Smith getting a "dealer discount" in that same ballpark of $3,000 to $3,500. Hopefully you follow that.

At the end of the day, your discount with the 1% under invoice plus the applicable manufacturer incentives/rebates is not the worst deal. If the truck has everything you're looking for and you can truly be satisfied with it, make the deal. Just have the dealer take off those darn wheel locks! Everybody comes on here saying you can get this much off or that much off, but the truth is, every situation is different. There are so many factors that go into a deal that you can't always take what one (or many) person says and apply it to your situation. If you're happy with the deal and truck, make it happen.
 

TAL2GK

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Your deposit is refundable. No way dealer can keep it. They will make it more difficult on you but they have no legal ability to keep a deposit on a car you don’t buy.
 

Paultg

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This will be my first truck and I think it has most of what I want. It would have been nice to have the LED light package and the blind spot feature... but other than that.
It is missing some other things that I'm used to having in my car like memory seats and power seats for the passenger, rain sense wiper, adaptive CC and a few other minor things.

Am I missing anything else that would be an oversight?

Thanks!

-HellaHarry

  • Customer Preferred Package 27Z
  • Trailer-Tow Group$400
  • Power Trailer-Tow Mirrors with Manual Fold-Away
  • Trailer Brake Control
  • Night Edition$1,995
  • 20-Inch x 9.0-Inch Premium Paint/Polished Wheels
  • 275/55R20 OWL All-Season Tires
  • Black Exterior Badging
  • Black Headlamp Bezels
  • Black Interior Accents
  • Big Horn Level 2 Equipment Group$2,500
  • 2nd-Row In-Floor Storage Bins
  • 115-Volt Auxiliary Power Outlet
  • 115-Volt Auxiliary Rear Power Outlet
  • 8.4-Inch Touchscreen Display
  • A/C Auto Temperature Control w/Dual-Zone Control
  • Apple CarPlay®
  • Class IV Receiver-Hitch
  • Cluster 7.0-Inch TFT Color Display
  • Media Hub-2 USB, Full Funct/Chg Only
  • Exterior Mirrors with Supplemental Signals
  • Google Android Auto™
  • Heated Front Seats
  • Heated Steering Wheel
  • ParkSense® Front and Rear Park-Assist with Stop
  • 4-Way Power Lumbar Adjustable Driver Seat
  • 8-Way Power Driver Seat
  • Power Adjustable Pedals
  • Power Folding Mirrors
  • Rear Power Sliding Window
  • Rear Window Defroster
  • Remote-Start System
  • SiriusXM® with 1-Year Radio Sub Call 800-643-2112
  • Universal Garage Door Opener
  • 3.92 Rear Axle Ratio$95
  • 5.7L V8 HEMI® MDS VVT eTorque Engine$1,695
  • 18-Inch Aluminum Spare Wheel
  • 23-Gallon Fuel Tank
  • Dual-Pane Panoramic Sunroof$1,495
  • 9-Amplified Speakers with Subwoofer$695
  • Uconnect® 12.0-Inch with Navigation$2,095
  • 4G LTE Wi-Fi Hot Spot
  • SiriusXM® with 360L
  • SiriusXM Guardian™ Connected Services w/1-Yr Trial
  • SiriusXM® Traffic Service Plus
  • SiriusXM® Travel Link
  • Package Value Savings of $2,300
  • Included in Level 2 Equipment Group
  • Price
You should seriously consider a Laramie LV1 package (what I ended up ordering). I wanted LED lighting, blind spot, park sense too. It’s hard to find a BH with all that and it has to be LV2. The Level 1 Laramie has it all and adds the heated/cooled seats, memory seat, power seat driver/passenger too, and rain sense wipers.

You can see what I ordered below in my signature.
I skipped tow package and just did the trailer brake.
The tow mirrors do not have power fold on 2020.
I also added the 33 gallon tank.

Regarding your situation. Tell dealer you researched more and if that isn’t the right truck or price, tell them. Make them work to find the Laramie you want at a price your willing to pay. Be nice about it. If they don’t want to work for you then get your money back.
 

HellaHarry

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Thank you so much, everyone. You all are just a super helpful, friendly group around here =) I'm looking forward to joining and contributing to the community.

Quick question, can the integrated brake controller be added after or is it a pita and won't have the software or whatnot on the screen?

Opinions on the 12 inch screen? Worth it? It was one of the things that definitely drew my attention over the Chevy and F150 as the interiors of those both seemed very dated.
 

Sir Ramcelot

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Thank you so much, everyone. You all are just a super helpful, friendly group around here =) I'm looking forward to joining and contributing to the community.

Quick question, can the integrated brake controller be added after or is it a pita and won't have the software or whatnot on the screen?

Opinions on the 12 inch screen? Worth it? It was one of the things that definitely drew my attention over the Chevy and F150 as the interiors of those both seemed very dated.

You can definitely add the TBC after and you can search the forum for those that have done it. You’ll find most people love the 12” screen. I know when I order my 21 I will be getting it.
 

SCasey89

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Thank you so much, everyone. You all are just a super helpful, friendly group around here =) I'm looking forward to joining and contributing to the community.

Quick question, can the integrated brake controller be added after or is it a pita and won't have the software or whatnot on the screen?

Opinions on the 12 inch screen? Worth it? It was one of the things that definitely drew my attention over the Chevy and F150 as the interiors of those both seemed very dated.

I’m pretty sure the Brake Controller can be added after the fact. Here’s a thread going over it https://5thgenrams.com/community/th...dd-the-factory-trailer-brake-controller.5618/

It seems there’s a love-hate relationship with the 12” Screen. Some people absolutely love it and others have issues with it. that being said, it would be a must for me.
 

Grouper

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I'm glad I've dragged my feet on ordering as I see there is now a HUD available for 2021!

Is there a post somewhere that enumerates all of the new options/features available for 2021?
 
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SCasey89

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Is there a post somewhere that enumerates all of the new options/features available for 2021?

Not yet, as we’re just getting bits and pieces of information as the new options are populating in the dealer ordering systems. All that we have confirmed so far is the new Technology Group, Towing Group (trailer steering assist, etc.), and the power-folding trailer tow mirrors with 360-degree cameras.

Ram hasn’t made any official announcements for the 2021s yet.
 

jbdan

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From the discussions above about invoice vs "what the dealer pays" for a vehicle, the formula I used that gives a buyer a ballpark figure is : invoice - HB - rebates - coupons. Some call this "true dealer cost". There are so many variables involved. Check out some of Kevin Hunter youtube videos, they're very informative!
 

Paultg

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Quick question, can the integrated brake controller be added after or is it a pita and won't have the software or whatnot on the screen?

The TBC only is like a $200-$300 option on the truck. I suggest you do that. To add it on your own is more money. You have to buy it, the dealer needs to program the truck (which seems to be $100-$150 from what folks say), or you are buying software to do the programming yourself (alpha OBD), and if the dealer has to update your truck during service the programming could be lost. Just my $0.02
 

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