Oil!!!!

[PowerJrod]

Lol, we are all guinea pigs in some ways right

Though the engine is really a big deal, but I can't see Toyota screwing that up or not at least coming to bat for people should it be an issue down the road.

When we got a new 2001 Honda Civic, I was surprised it used 5W-20, never seen oil that thin before. I remember how low viscosity it was. I could barely pull the dipstick out before drops would come off. I thought, wow, that's some thin oil! That engine is probably close to 300,000 miles now with another owner.

Wow, I wonder if I could get my Ram to 300k miles hehe.

 

[Rollint]

Think of it this way....heat is cumulative. If your engine is already sitting out in 100° heat, your engine is already at or close to 100° before starting up...
Then you start the engine and drive, it warms up WAY faster than if it was a cold day.
Your basically adding that initial 100° to the beginning engine run temperature. Hope that makes sense...

It doesnt make sense. Your oil getting to 100 degrees four minutes after you start your car on a cold day so it doesnt matter. Also, you go check your actual oil temp on a 100+ degree day when you havent driven anywhere all day and I guarantee it isnt even close to 100 degrees. Your entire engine block would also have to reach the ambient 100 degrees and it just isnt happening. But even if it did, the oil would be 100 degrees after running for a few minutes on a cold day so it literally makes no difference.

 

[PowerJrod]

It doesnt make sense. Your oil getting to 100 degrees four minutes after you start your car on a cold day so it doesnt matter. Also, you go check your actual oil temp on a 100+ degree day when you havent driven anywhere all day and I guarantee it isnt even close to 100 degrees. Your entire engine block would also have to reach the ambient 100 degrees and it just isnt happening. But even if it did, the oil would be 100 degrees after running for a few minutes on a cold day so it literally makes no difference.

Actually I did today since it was 112°F when I got outta work. Wish I took a picture. My engine temp was exactly 102°F when I started my truck. A cold day has nothing to do with what I posted in that comment. But good talk my friend. My comment was referencing how heat is cumulative btw. I know...the oil helps with the heat, I get that.

 

[INVISBLE]

There are a couple of key issues commonly ignored... for one engine tolerances have gotten tighter over the years leading to the use of the "lower" numbered viscosity coils. A thicker "organic" oil cant flow around as easily as the new lower synthetics do.
Secondly in the hemis especially, at idle a heavier oil is harder to throw around inside the block. The infamous hemi tick is do in part to a lack of lubrication on the camshaft due to an engineering design flaw blocking the crank from throwing enough oil onto the cam lobes. This isnt really a big deal above idle but if it had a thicker heavier oil, that would only exacerbate the problem resulting in much earlier camshaft failures.

 

[Grape_Ape]

FWIW - My commuter is a 2013 Mazda 3 w/ the 2.0L Skyactiv Engine. It's sitting at 15X,XXX miles and it's always gotten the user manual stated 0W-20 oil. It gets kind of toasty in Georgia during the summer but nothing extreme. I've never had the first bit of trouble with that engine. In fact in the past yr I've replaced the spark plugs, MAF sensor, and went to an AEM reusable air filter and it's running better than it ever has. Toyota has a reputation and I'd trust them until given a reason not to.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

I doubt you will ever see a turbo charged car run a 0 weight oil. It will leak right out and cook off and coke up.

You really should get your facts right before saying something like this. First off there is no such thing as a "0 weight oil". Secondly GM, Honda, Volkswagen and BMW are four automakers I can name off the top of my head who specify 0W-20 oil in some of their turbocharged engines. Alfa Romeo uses 0W-30 in their 2.0L turbo and 0W-40 in their 2.9L turbo. Porsche uses 0W-40. The list of turbocharged engines using 0WXX is quite large.

 

[WXman]

"There's no way in h*** I'd put a 0W16 in anything sitting in my driveway."

When 5W20 was becoming more common, that was the comment then as well.

If I have a catastrophic engine failure in a vehicle, I don't think I'll be returning to that brand. Bean counters probably won't like the repercussions of their brand having a reputation for engine failure.

Right, and like I mentioned before, I've done oil analysis on engines with over 100k on them that are spec'd with 5W20, and what I discovered was that wear metals were lower with 5W30, and per the lab results it looked like a 5W40 would even be healthier in summer heat.

Just because a 20 weight oil works doesn't mean a 30 or 40 wouldn't work better.

Why do people continue to think they know better than billion dollar companies that spend millions of R&D engineering dollars? Just run what the manufacture suggests.

Because they do. Engineers and consumers have totally different goals in mind. Engineers want to 1) please their bosses who sign their checks and 2) maintain job security. Consumers want to 1) drive an engine as many miles as possible. Those two things are exclusive...you can't run an engine designed to create friction to make compression on a thinner oil and get the same mileage out of it that you can with an oil that lubricates better. Maybe that's why we're seeing vehicles have lots of failures before 150k again these days. But, with better lubrication comes a reduction in fuel efficiency, and that costs the manufacturer money.

They're in business to make money, not to build you a vehicle that's going to last 30 years.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

And yet our Charger patrol cars are in service until 200,000 miles and are run on Safety Kleen recycled 5W-20 synthetic blend oil. The last one our mechanic sent to a dealership for a cam/lifter issue was a 2015 model.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

FWIW - My commuter is a 2013 Mazda 3 w/ the 2.0L Skyactiv Engine. It's sitting at 15X,XXX miles and it's always gotten the user manual stated 0W-20 oil. It gets kind of toasty in Georgia during the summer but nothing extreme. I've never had the first bit of trouble with that engine. In fact in the past yr I've replaced the spark plugs, MAF sensor, and went to an AEM reusable air filter and it's running better than it ever has. Toyota has a reputation and I'd trust them until given a reason not to.

Your experience is a great example of just how good 0W-20 oils are. I can guarantee you that when Mazda switched to 0W-20 people complained that it was only for CAFE and that as soon as the cars are out of warranty the engines would fall apart, just like when Ford and Honda switched to 5W-20 20 years ago. Hell, people are still saying it today and the ones saying it then turned out to be wrong, just as the ones today are. Modern 5W-20 oils, especially the synthetic ones, are extremely well engineered oils and the 0W-20 oils are even better in some cases.

I predict the 0W-16 oils that the OP is interested in will turn out to be just as good, when used in the proper application. Nippon oil in Japan started developing them in the late 90's and now every major oil company has tested and released their version, as well as specialty and botique companies like Idemitsu, Ravenol, Amsoil, Motul and Eneos.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Idk, I've heard the same thing but when I did some digging...I found a reference that thid oil was developed for motorcycles and lawnmowers....kind of like walmarts supertech oil. But who here has seen a car from Japan with a ton of miles on it after using 0W16 oil? Show of hands anyone? I'm just saying that marketing hype and business manufacturering isn't all rainbows and sunshine, claims are stretched in the pursuit of business, profits and meeting EPA demands. While under warranty, of course I'd use what they specify but this is more of a discussion regarding the use of certain oils AFTER warranty period.

Nippon Oil didn't spend the money and man hours in research just to develop a lawnmower oil, it was to develop a 0W-16 that will work in certain engines.

Also, Walmarts SuperTech oils are actually very, very good. They're made by Warren Performance Products and meet all of the factory specs from GM, Ford, Chrysler etc.

 

[PowerJrod]

There are a couple of key issues commonly ignored... for one engine tolerances have gotten tighter over the years leading to the use of the "lower" numbered viscosity coils. A thicker "organic" oil cant flow around as easily as the new lower synthetics do.
Secondly in the hemis especially, at idle a heavier oil is harder to throw around inside the block. The infamous hemi tick is do in part to a lack of lubrication on the camshaft due to an engineering design flaw blocking the crank from throwing enough oil onto the cam lobes. This isnt really a big deal above idle but if it had a thicker heavier oil, that would only exacerbate the problem resulting in much earlier camshaft failures.

That's a good point. Makes me wonder why Ram didn't opt for something like 0W20 or 0W30 oil instead...

 

[PowerJrod]

Nippon Oil didn't spend the money and man hours in research just to develop a lawnmower oil, it was to develop a 0W-16 that will work in certain engines.

Also, Walmarts SuperTech oils are actually very, very good. They're made by Warren Performance Products and meet all of the factory specs from GM, Ford, Chrysler etc.

For an older car .. supertech is great. But I would NEVER use supertech in a modern vehicle engine like my Ram...that's asking for trouble. It wasn't until recently that Supertech met the specs for those brands you mentioned. They had to change their formula for that.

 

[PowerJrod]

And yet our Charger patrol cars are in service until 200,000 miles and are run on Safety Kleen recycled 5W-20 synthetic blend oil. The last one our mechanic sent to a dealership for a cam/lifter issue was a 2015 model.

Although I have no doubt that's true...you have to remember that interceptors get their oil changed every 3k miles religiously. When I was on the Sheriff's department I asked about stretching that to 5k miles for my department and everyone acted like I needed to be shot for even mentioning it lol. But that's a whole different discussion on the intervals with oil changes.

 

[PowerJrod]

Right, and like I mentioned before, I've done oil analysis on engines with over 100k on them that are spec'd with 5W20, and what I discovered was that wear metals were lower with 5W30, and per the lab results it looked like a 5W40 would even be healthier in summer heat.

Just because a 20 weight oil works doesn't mean a 30 or 40 wouldn't work better.



Because they do. Engineers and consumers have totally different goals in mind. Engineers want to 1) please their bosses who sign their checks and 2) maintain job security. Consumers want to 1) drive an engine as many miles as possible. Those two things are exclusive...you can't run an engine designed to create friction to make compression on a thinner oil and get the same mileage out of it that you can with an oil that lubricates better. Maybe that's why we're seeing vehicles have lots of failures before 150k again these days. But, with better lubrication comes a reduction in fuel efficiency, and that costs the manufacturer money.

They're in business to make money, not to build you a vehicle that's going to last 30 years.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make in the long run...like I said, marketing, profit, business and the goal to meet certain EPA damands (which is not engine longevity related)

 

[silver billet]

Secondly in the hemis especially, at idle a heavier oil is harder to throw around inside the block. The infamous hemi tick is do in part to a lack of lubrication on the camshaft due to an engineering design flaw blocking the crank from throwing enough oil onto the cam lobes. This isnt really a big deal above idle but if it had a thicker heavier oil, that would only exacerbate the problem resulting in much earlier camshaft failures.

Here's the thing. People notice the "hemi tick" running recommend 5w-20 (dino/synthetic). They put in a thicker oil, Redline 5w-30, which is almost as thick as some other 5w-40 oils. Now the tick goes away.

If you had to guess; would you say the 5w-20 is better for your engine (with ticking noise present), or the redline 5w-40 (with ticking noise severely reduced or eliminated)?

An oil is more than just viscosity. There are other additives (high dose of moly in this case) which can do a better job, even with a thicker oil.

The "engineering flaw" has apparently been resolved long ago (2014), if you're using "Uncle Tony's" video for your facts. We had a thread on this in this forum few weeks ago.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Although I have no doubt that's true...you have to remember that interceptors get their oil changed every 3k miles religiously. When I was on the Sheriff's department I asked about stretching that to 5k miles for my department and everyone acted like I needed to be shot for even mentioning it lol. But that's a whole different discussion on the intervals with oil changes.

Ours is changed every 5,000 miles.

 

[securityguy]

Same here...every 5K without fail. 5W20 Pennzoil Platinum with a WIX XP filter. No ticking and takes a licking

 

[PowerJrod]

Ours is changed every 5,000 miles.

Surprised since those vehicles do soooo much idling. But keep in mind the design of the interceptors have extra external engine coolers, etc...they're not built the same as consumer vehicles. I'm not in LE anymore but I do have a Ford explorer interceptor I use at work sometimes. That thing is built waaay differently than a normal 2016 explorer because it's made for higher temps, long idle times, etc...

 

[PowerJrod]

Same here...every 5K without fail. 5W20 Pennzoil Platinum with a WIX XP filter. No ticking and takes a licking

I do the same with my Ram....tough guard filters instead of Wix though without any issues so far.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Kind of long and rambling but he gives a credible response to the Uncle Tony video. Make of it what you will.