Not a pickup, but...Bronco!

devildodge

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The best part of this reveal.

2 DOORS.

IT IS GREAT that a 2 door vehicle is built.

2nd best part.

Manual transmission.

Now, get the 5th Gen 1500 with a regular cab and a 7 speed manual...I would be very excited.

Overall, very glad for the competition.

And a 2 door SUV. Man a RAM Charger would be awesome.

Not interested in a BRONCO but I do like the looks and feel if it.
 

silver billet

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Well....technically not true. The diesels are turbo....
I was referring to "turbo gas" vs "gas" (hence the reference to the 7.3 big block v8), diesel engines are in a class of their own. There are reasons why diesels last longer, despite being turbo charged, not because of it.
 

ChadT

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I disagree, the 2.7L Ecoboost is the volume engine,
Oh that's definitely true, it's the equivalent/competitor for Chevrolet's 5.3L V8

they didn't try to steer me away from the 5.0L.
Let me clarify here, as it's not your job to know EXACTLY what I meant and all it entails.
I don't mean to imply that they had their sales folks steer you away from a V8. I mean their entire corporate strategy is about going to the ecoboost family, due to the EPA/CAFE realities and the road they've chosen to deal with it. As such, their product offerings, the engine choices they offer to us specifically, their marketing, etc is all crafted around us as consumers "organically choosing" those EPA/CAFE engines. Selecting it from amongst the options they provide us.

This is also why they put one in the Raptor, and in the Ford GT - two Halo vehicles. It's specifically to give the rub to the guy looking at the 2.7L Ecoboost, or the 3.5L. "But it's in the ________? V6 is the way of the future." is the conclusion, and the other individual I'm going to be quoting has bought in 100%.

Back in late 2014, I test drove the 5.3L Silverado, 5.0L F150 and RAM 5.7L. I ended up with the 2.7L Ecoboost because it was fast, got good mileage when off boost and towed what I needed. The 2.7L Ecoboost is faster than my Hemi and got me 19 mpg mixed driving, while I'm only getting 13 mpg on the same loop with my Rebel. Could they spec the 5.0L to have more power and more attractive over the 3.5L?
IIRC they are roughly at what they can get out of the 5.0L V8 in a truck, in terms of power vs displacement. The guys over at TFLTruck actually over estimated how much power the 7.3L V8 was going to have using that power v displacement calculations of the coyote. The why: The de-rated 7.3L has more power in it, it's running less power for longevity reasons.

The 2.7L ecoboost in terms of stoplight to stoplight speed is a good motor, it would be false for me to say otherwise. And while the ecoboost is either "Eco" or "boost", most report good MPG with those. But it's kinda cruel, many people don't get their EPA mileage out of their vehicles, but that is now how the CAFE is calculated. The only numbers that matter for it, are the ones the EPA gets.
Sure they could.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Rebel and that V8 sound, its one of the primary reason why I got one now. I get bored every few years and the current F150 was already 5 years old. I fell in love with the new Rebel design but my 2.7L Ecoboost was a jewel of a motor and handled truck duties amazingly. If I go back to Ford, I would have no issues getting another one.

I didn't say the Bronco shouldn't have an available V8, it's just that it doesn't need one.
I have to stop you right here. "It doesn't need one" is why the Raptor had no V8 for a few years. As the TRX approaches, we hear talk of one in the Raptor. Now it does.

I would be very interested to see the take rate of that 2.7L V8, if they offered the V8 coyote as well.
"But a V6 is fine" is not something all consumers believe. At all. For various reasons, if for no other reason - desire. As long as someone is able and willing to offer a V8 engine in their truck, we'll be seeing them, due to consumer desire.

Ford has been very effective in their strategy and offerings to get people into higher MPG engines, whether their sales personnel steer people into them or not.

There are consumers who won't buy one, because they sound terrible. Is that a good reason? Doesn't matter if that's how the consumer feels. He doesn't care if we think that's a good or bad reason. He doesn't want it. Consumer attitudes are the reality that govern what companies need to offer, whether tech specs on paper look better or not.


With the 2.7L, it will hit 0-60 in the low 5 second range and have vastly more torque than all gas Wrangler motors. Only the upcoming diesel has more torque, and only by a little bit.
 

ChadT

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Because when you add a tune to the 2.7L or 3.5L Ecoboost, and then add a tune to their 5.0L, the Ecoboost still makes
More power, more torque and lower peak torque than the 5.0. On top of that in stock form the 3.5L have more power, torque and better mpg than the 5.7l hemi, and add a tune to the 2.7l ecoboost and it also out does the hemi....

So please enlighten us as to where the Ecoboost is inferior to a v8.....
"when you add a tune" - neither are now stock. And I do think the 5.0, while it has good displacement for its size, it's about where they can get it power wise due to that, and they're having reliability issues with it.

Also quoting the part in my post that you apparently missed:
"In a "truck," where to me the primary concerns are longevity, simplicity, ease of maintenance? A big engine barely working is to me, the best formula. "

Do you know who agrees with me? Ford does.
For years we heard the ecoboost believers tell EVERYONE that we were getting one in the superduty.
Why wouldn't we?
V8s are dead.
It's not 1965 anymore.
A smaller v6 with a turbo on it is "both more powerful and gets better MPG", and the reliability and longevity will be the same because it will be the same. It also has less parts because, "2 less cylinders, duh."
It's not more complicated in any way (so say the fans), and it's better at towing (so say the fans).

The year is 2020, and the ecoboost we got in the Superduty is? A 7.3L V8.
Damn I guess Ford doesn't know how to build one?

OR:
In the heavyduty truck segment, many of these trucks will be used as a truck for the entirety of their lives.
Pulling a landscaping trailer for every mile. Hauling dirt. You name it.
And for many years, the 5.7L Hemi, was sold in those 3/4ton trucks where the expectation was that the engine had to last a very long time under hard conditions, because being down for maintenance was dollars lost for the owner. It's a reason that some will avoid the big diesel engines if they do not need the power - the maintenance costs.

Someone like that doesn't care about stoplight to stoplight racing other trucks, nor about "but with a chip-" he's using his Truck, as a truck, to do truck things. He doesn't care about 1.5mpg better when put-putting around town either not under load. It has to run without a fuss, for as long as possible.
A big simple V8-V10 gas engine, is what they're looking for in a gas engine for that application.

There is a Ford engineer I quoted a long time ago, I believe on this very board, did state that IIRC, they didn't put the ecoboost in the super duty because of longevity/cost simplicity, and also fuel economy under load.
Note that the people who have the special magic formula to a small V6 with a turbo on it (Because apparently this is a totally new technology) in a truck, DID NOT PUT ONE IN THEIR "THIS HAS TO DO TRUCK STUFF" TRUCK.
They had reasons for it. Good ones.
It was not an accident.

While we all know someone who has a buddy who knows a guy who has a 2014 ecoboost with 150,000 miles on it? 6 years is not a long time for an HD truck. At all. Not worth writing home about. And 150,000 miles in that time is pretty usually all highway, with nothing in the back. That is not the life of a heavyduty worktruck.
Ford would have used that ecoboost in the SuperDuty if it could have.
Their consumer base has largely bought in and is religious about it, it's an easy off the shelf technology. They wouldn't have spent a dime developing an entirely new engine in a "Dead" V8 platform, if it did not absolutely need to.

Consider yourself enlightened.
I personally enjoy having a 3/4ton truck engine in my halfton, I feel no envy whatsoever when a truck that sounds like a weedwhacker rolls by.
 
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Timeless

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^^^ A lot of that is true.

However the typical owner of an F150 is not going to keep it more than 100K miles and is not going to use it at its max capabilities very often.

Thus the v6 turbo made the most sense and still does based on those parameters.
 

ChadT

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^^^ A lot of that is true.

However the typical owner of an F150 is not going to keep it more than 100K miles and is not going to use it at its max capabilities very often.

Thus the v6 turbo made the most sense and still does based on those parameters.
100% this.
Most halfton owners will largely use them unloaded most of the time, IMHO that is across brands not Ford specific.
Many will probably drop them off before any maintenance/longevity issues would arise.

When Ford's constraints include the EPA/CAFE issues, and they sell THAT many F-150s? They had to pump out engines that would lower that fleet fuel economy, and make sure their consumers purchased them. You do that with marketing, careful product offerings, making sure it's got virtues consumers like (stoplight to stoplight speed) etc, and yes, making sure you're not offering a 6.2L V8 with 420hp and 460lb ft of torque (like Chevy/GMC does) in many models.
In going with their strategy, they were sooo successful that they convinced SOME buyers that the small V6s were the best at all things, no one needs nor wants anything else, and those people were incredibly confused when the 7.3 was released, and FCA was thrilled once they realized the door was left open for a hellcat powered TRX.

The reality is that while those who buy into the small turbo engines do enjoy them. They do.
It's not everyone.
If the V8 does go due to EPA/CAFE reasons? To those who still want them, they may end up in the heavyduty segment.
 
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