No more diesel.......

[wjcook68]

You might be on to something here nc_beagle. It makes sense that they may have bought the tech are are changing the packaging a bit. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't have to do so.

 

[djevox]

But did Nikola really have the tech? There was some heavy speculation and nothing to show.

 

[StuartV]

I don't know what the true reality is, but supposedly Nikola delivered its first semi-trucks back in December (2021). That included 2 EVs and 2 Fuel Cell EVs.

Nikola Delivers First Nikola Tre Battery-Electric Trucks to Total Transportation Services Inc. - Nikola Motor

California port drayage company has letter of intent for 100 trucks from Nikola for their zero-emission fleet

nikolamotor.com

That said, in 4 or 5 years, I don't really expect a hydrogen fuel network to be built out to a degree I would want to depend on. Just like I would not want to depend on a network of SuperChargers today, for a Tesla.

My fingers are crossed for a new RAM to be very much like the Badger, but with (in a perfect world) a diesel onboard generator to extend range, and a battery-only range of at LEAST 400 miles.

Gasoline may be what everyone wants these days, for ICE-only cars and for hybrids, but the energy density of diesel is so much better, I just don't see how it would make sense to use a gas motor as a range extender. Just like an ED can go 800 miles on a 33 gallon fill-up versus a Hemi only going 500 miles on the same volume of fuel, I expect that a hybrid with a diesel range extender could also go much further on whatever volume of fuel can be fit in the vehicle than it could go with a gas range extender.

 

[djevox]

I don't know what the true reality is, but supposedly Nikola delivered its first semi-trucks back in December (2021). That included 2 EVs and 2 Fuel Cell EVs.

Nikola Delivers First Nikola Tre Battery-Electric Trucks to Total Transportation Services Inc. - Nikola Motor

California port drayage company has letter of intent for 100 trucks from Nikola for their zero-emission fleet

nikolamotor.com

That said, in 4 or 5 years, I don't really expect a hydrogen fuel network to be built out to a degree I would want to depend on. Just like I would not want to depend on a network of SuperChargers today, for a Tesla.

My fingers are crossed for a new RAM to be very much like the Badger, but with (in a perfect world) a diesel onboard generator to extend range, and a battery-only range of at LEAST 400 miles.

Gasoline may be what everyone wants these days, for ICE-only cars and for hybrids, but the energy density of diesel is so much better, I just don't see how it would make sense to use a gas motor as a range extender. Just like an ED can go 800 miles on a 33 gallon fill-up versus a Hemi only going 500 miles on the same volume of fuel, I expect that a hybrid with a diesel range extender could also go much further on whatever volume of fuel can be fit in the vehicle than it could go with a gas range extender.

Totally. Manufacturers should take note of how well locomotives do diesel-electric.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

I was looking online and there will be a 2500 Rebel with the Cummins diesel in 2023, that is a very nice big truck, but I wouldn’t want to buy that Rebel with all the options that my truck has, it would be over $100,000 in Canada, my Rebel window sticker in 2020 was $80,140. I’m still very happy with my small diesel and hopefully it will last me a long long time.

 

[Chris3058]

I was looking online and there will be a 2500 Rebel with the Cummins diesel in 2023, that is a very nice big truck, but I wouldn’t want to buy that Rebel with all the options that my truck has, it would be over $100,000 in Canada, my Rebel window sticker in 2020 was $80,140. I’m still very happy with my small diesel and hopefully it will last me a long long time.

Im waiting on pricing for the 2500 Reb but the Cummins will add 10k to the sticker. Ouch. So I may be keeping the 20 ED until she turns into rust dust.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

Im waiting on pricing for the 2500 Reb but the Cummins will add 10k to the sticker. Ouch. So I may be keeping the 20 ED until she turns into rust dust.

I don’t know when you bought your 2020 Rebel, but when I bought mine in July of 2020 I received a discount of $2500 for the 3L Diesel engine. I have seen in the past the Cummins option discount, it was was it might come back.
The 2500 Cummins Rebel would definitely surpass the 1500 Ecodiesel Rebel in all aspects, but in my situation the 1500 is plenty capable and I could not justify the initial price for the 2500 and the extra cost for the heavy duty maintenance parts like brake pads and rotors, steering components, tie rod ends ball joints….
I never had an HD diesel truck so I have nothing to compare but I’m pretty sure my small displacement diesel is more efficient to operate and to keep for a long time, specially when wearable parts needs to be replaced.

It would be good if the Ecodiesel had the same warranty as the Cummins, I know that in the States the Ecodiesel has a longer warranty than in Canada, what’s up with that?

My truck has passed the bumper to bumper 36 month/60,000km warranty after only 2 years because it has almost 63,000km, all is good so far and it will likely hit the 100,000 km power train warranty before the 5 years are up.

 

[Chris3058]

Yeah. I ordered my 20 and I got the early adopter diesel rebate as well. Essentially free…inwas trying for a 23 diesel 1500 but nope. I’ve been told I missed that boat. Don’t need a 2500 but it may be the only option. Or dare I say it. A GM. Ugh.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

Yeah. I ordered my 20 and I got the early adopter diesel rebate as well. Essentially free…inwas trying for a 23 diesel 1500 but nope. I’ve been told I missed that boat. Don’t need a 2500 but it may be the only option. Or dare I say it. A GM. Ugh.

GM’s I6 3L Duramax concerning issue was the internal oil pump belt had to be replaced at 100,000 miles, the belt is located between the engine and transmission. They have now modified that engine raising the HP 10% to 305, the torque up 7% to 495 lb/ft, and the pump belt is to be replaced at 150,000 miles. Someone posted on a GM site the labour at $1095 and the parts at $200. Good luck with that, usually there are always added cost, specially if a truck has been driving for 150,000 miles.
Could not see myself changing to a GM/Chevrolet, I would miss the Ramboxes, the comfortable seats, the ride, the look…..

 

[n8zcc]

GM’s I6 3L Duramax concerning issue was the internal oil pump belt had to be replaced at 100,000 miles, the belt is located between the engine and transmission. They have now modified that engine raising the HP 10% to 305, the torque up 7% to 495 lb/ft, and the pump belt is to be replaced at 150,000 miles.

There are a few videos floating around where reviewers interviewed a GM engineer in charge of the baby Duramax. The original service life of the oil pump belt was 150K miles and with the new version of the engine, they upped the service life to 200K miles, according to the engineer.

 

[AdamChandler]

This kind of makes me want to order a '23 Limited ED. I thought about it for only a second though. I LOVE my EcoDiesel. No major issues aside from some recalls which aren't unusual these days. I've done my first two oil changes (10 and 20K) without problems so maintenance has been very low. The fuel economy blows minds every single day. 23.5 MPG over the first 26,000 miles. I don't baby it or do any fancy aero mileage efforts. I just drive it and get better economy than everything out there.

I'll eventually own an alternatively fueled vehicle but I really need to get something that checks every box and for now, that's the 1500 w/ ED. great ride, great towing, great hauling, very comfortable with the air suspension. I love the truck. No one can believe how nice it is. My buddy runs diesel sprinters for his farming business and deliveries We did a 2000 mile trip with our dirt bikes in the back and he wouldn't stop talking about how nice it is to drive.

Thinking of what I would replace it with if we didn't have a 700 mile EV alternative that doesn't get lower range in cold and doesn't take 2-3 hours to charge that can haul 2 motorcycles or a full size auto trailer, seat 4 and have auto level suspension? I guess maybe a Porsche SUV or something from the luxury segment that still has diesel. maybe a used VW Toureg with low miles? I honestly don't know. I have the 8 year 125K mile warranty on this through Mopar so I'm good for a while.

 

[tom318]

This kind of makes me want to order a '23 Limited ED. I thought about it for only a second though. I LOVE my EcoDiesel. No major issues aside from some recalls which aren't unusual these days. I've done my first two oil changes (10 and 20K) without problems so maintenance has been very low. The fuel economy blows minds every single day. 23.5 MPG over the first 26,000 miles. I don't baby it or do any fancy aero mileage efforts. I just drive it and get better economy than everything out there.

I'll eventually own an alternatively fueled vehicle but I really need to get something that checks every box and for now, that's the 1500 w/ ED. great ride, great towing, great hauling, very comfortable with the air suspension. I love the truck. No one can believe how nice it is. My buddy runs diesel sprinters for his farming business and deliveries We did a 2000 mile trip with our dirt bikes in the back and he wouldn't stop talking about how nice it is to drive.

Thinking of what I would replace it with if we didn't have a 700 mile EV alternative that doesn't get lower range in cold and doesn't take 2-3 hours to charge that can haul 2 motorcycles or a full size auto trailer, seat 4 and have auto level suspension? I guess maybe a Porsche SUV or something from the luxury segment that still has diesel. maybe a used VW Toureg with low miles? I honestly don't know. I have the 8 year 125K mile warranty on this through Mopar so I'm good for a while.

Might be best off finding a used 22-23 ED. There should be some low mile examples still out there in a few years. That’s my thought. Unfortunately the Porsche’s, VW, Audi and BMW diesels will be getting older and harder to find compared to these trucks. Sad to see it go but my buddy has a 22 2500 with the Cummins and unloaded doing 65-70 he averages about 22mpg which is great but that thing is far from comfortable. Not sure why they don’t at least share the same seats, the 1500 seats are way better. 2500 feels like a wooden bench.

 

[AdamChandler]

Might be best off finding a used 22-23 ED. There should be some low mile examples still out there in a few years. That’s my thought. Unfortunately the Porsche’s, VW, Audi and BMW diesels will be getting older and harder to find compared to these trucks. Sad to see it go but my buddy has a 22 2500 with the Cummins and unloaded doing 65-70 he averages about 22mpg which is great but that thing is far from comfortable. Not sure why they don’t at least share the same seats, the 1500 seats are way better. 2500 feels like a wooden bench.

You're right. Seems like diesel is basically dead without much high output, high MPG alternative at the moment. EV / Hydrogen will eventually catch up but diesel is dead in 2023 and there is no replacement. Lightning? Rivian? Cybertruck? none of those come close.

 

[n8zcc]

You're right. Seems like diesel is basically dead without much high output, high MPG alternative at the moment. EV / Hydrogen will eventually catch up but diesel is dead in 2023 and there is no replacement. Lightning? Rivian? Cybertruck? none of those come close.

Hydrogen will never come to be for the typical vehicle. Hydrogen is very dangerous and hard to store, very expensive to extract (needs a lot of electricity or not green at all), and as a YouTube video shows, refueling causes frozen lines delaying the time it takes to refuel. Hydrogen may have a cost-effective use case in commercial use.

I'm not sure diesel is dead. There is new injector technology that results in near zero emissions and new controls for opposing piston diesels. The problem is our government, the three letter agencies have rules like the rules for EGR that have to be readdressed before the technology can move forward. The current war on fossil energy is a wall at this moment in time.

In the future, I think you will see a new class of diesel and diesel/electric hybrids come about.

 

[AdamChandler]

Hydrogen will never come to be for the typical vehicle. Hydrogen is very dangerous and hard to store, very expensive to extract (needs a lot of electricity or not green at all), and as a YouTube video shows, refueling causes frozen lines delaying the time it takes to refuel. Hydrogen may have a cost-effective use case in commercial use.

I'm not sure diesel is dead. There is new injector technology that results in near zero emissions and new controls for opposing piston diesels. The problem is our government, the three letter agencies have rules like the rules for EGR that have to be readdressed before the technology can move forward. The current war on fossil energy is a wall at this moment in time.

In the future, I think you will see a new class of diesel and diesel/electric hybrids come about.

not trying to harp on this too much but I'd love some very low displacement diesel power plant mated to a big fat lithium battery and rear wheel motors. think plug in hybrid diesel where I can run 200 miles without towing on a battery pack and have diesel + EV augmentation for long distance hauling giving me cummins level torque. the RAM is already heavy as hell. what's a 1000 pound battery added on?

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

The sky is not falling now, either. Just relax and give Ram a chance. Ram is innovative and not afraid to take risks - you might be pleasantly surprised. For those who need to tow, or haul loads for long distances, the HD pickups with Cummins diesel will be available for a number of years. Also, Cummins has independently been working on a number of new technologies for their engines - hydrogen combustion, fuel cells, "sustainable petroleum", battery-electrics, hybrids. The show isn't over yet, just getting ready for the next act.

A lot of the V8 Hemi guys are already complaining about the Hurricane engine, mostly because it's a 6-cylinder. I have my own personal issues about it, but I'll start with this: IT'S NEW. New meaning that it hasn't proven itself to be reliable. I'm allergic to new. You'll never see me buy the first model year of any generation of any car, engine or transmission. I'll give them at least 3 years to work all the bugs out. The EcoDiesel has already been troublesome over the past 2 generations. I feel like with the 3rd generation, they finally got it right....and now it's cancelled. I'm only about 8,000mi in, but I do believe I got the best version of a good thing.

Ram might have a whole bunch of stuff down the road, but the next act is still a long ways away. I-6 TT, Hybrids, Hydrogen, Electric, etc, I've got no problem with that, but the same rule applies, it doesn't exist NOW and there's a lot of kinks to work out when it does. I absolutely love the new Chevy EV, right down to the hybrid frame and the mid-gate, but it's a ****ing 8,000lb curb weight and 750hp. I'd be terrified to drive that on soft or wet turf. The Ram EV is going to be the same thing. You're hauling around 8,000lbs of dead weight. EV truck? Sure!!! but I'm going to wait until the dust settles, and that means I'll probably enjoy my Ram Eco for the next 10 years before I even consider an electric. Hopefully, newer tech will solve the weight and energy density.

The EcoDiesel isn't the cleanest engine, but it's a means to an end, it gets over 30mpg on the highway and is the absolutely best/smoothest trailer-pulling truck I've ever driven. The Cummins is also good, but it's 14MPG in a truck that's way bigger than I need. The Hurricane is really just an emissions compliance engine, it's going to emit cleaner exhaust, but probably not going to save much fuel because some truck buyers are insecure without a V8. I guess the Hurricane has something to prove (just like the Tundra), so they sacrificed mpgs for horsepower numbers.....there's a reason I got the EcoDiesel.

It's really a shame they're closing the curtain this early. In either case, the value of my truck just skyrocketed.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

Good thing I just bought my '22 Laramie. Looks like I'll be moving to GMC for the 6 cyl duramax if this is true (for my next truck).

Same. I guess I chose the right time to buy and the right truck. In either case, I'll be holding onto this truck for a good long time, so there's no need for me to look at anything that's on the market right now. In 6-10 years, I'll re-evaluate my needs and what's out there. It'll probably be an EV truck, so long as the weight comes down significantly, and the range goes up significantly.

Personally, there is no way I would ever buy an HD with a Hemi. If I need the capacity of the HD, I'm going to want the Cummins to power it.
I went down the road of a gas engine in a 3/4 ton truck when I had an F250 with a 6.8L V10. Never again.

Agreed. High-displacement gas engines are fun, but they just don't have the same personality as a Diesel. It's funny I ended up with a Ram because I rented a Hemi Classic, I even towed with it, and I hated every minute of it. The Hemi, IMO is no better than my Nissan Frontier. More power? Sure, but it had the same personality: You KNOW when you have weight back there because suddenly there's no power. EcoDiesel, you feel nothing.

Totally. Manufacturers should take note of how well locomotives do diesel-electric.

Locomotives have a lot of room and weight doesn't matter. It would be a lot to have an EV with a diesel generator on board.

EVs are fine by me, but only once they are a reasonable weight, reasonable range, and reasonable towing range. The thing I love most about my Eco is that I have a 33gal tank. I can go about 1000mi on the tank, plus another 400-ish with the 15-gal tank I have in the bed. I no longer fill up on road trips, unless I know I'm passing through a cheap diesel state like Virginia.

 

[StuartV]

I towed for the first time with my ED the other day. It was a medium-sized pontoon boat, just across town to the lake and back.

There is no way I would say "I couldn't even tell it was there." I could definitely tell it was there when I went to pull away from a stop or to accelerate any other time. However, it did just fine. Not complaining. Just saying.

As for the "I'll buy a Duramax" crowd, I just have to point out that, by the time these 3rd Gen EDs need to be replaced, there is no guarantee that the miniMax won't have followed in the ED's footsteps. Also, all the manufacturers are hard at work making electric alternatives. By the time the 3rd Gen EDs need to be replaced, I'd say there is a reasonable chance there will be one that will appeal to many of us.

In other words, unless you are shopping for a truck right NOW (or in the near future), pronouncements about what you WILL do are probably not worth the screen real estate they're printed on.

 

[djevox]

Does anyone know how long the Jeeps will continue having the ecodiesel?

 

[Eighty]