No more diesel.......

[Chris3058]

well i tried to get in on a last eco on a 23. I was told I missed the order date for January end of ED builds. Anyway the new GM LZ0 3.0 duramax is up to 305 HP and 495 ft/lbs and increased fuel econ. So why would Ram cancel the diesel and GM make improvements??????

 

[djevox]

well i tried to get in on a last eco on a 23. I was told I missed the order date for January end of ED builds. Anyway the new GM LZ0 3.0 duramax is up to 305 HP and 495 ft/lbs and increased fuel econ. So why would Ram cancel the diesel and GM make improvements??????

Good question. Ford still has their diesel also if you’re looking around.

 

[J-Cooz]

Good question. Ford still has their diesel also if you’re looking around.

No they don't. they cancelled it a year or two ago.

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[tom318]

All that's left is GM with L70 Duramax. Hopefully they keep it another few years. Fords run was really short 3 yrs, 2018-2021. Though the 3rd GEN RAM wasn't much longer unfortunately.

 

[J-Cooz]

I wonder how many customers ram will lose because of this..I'm a loyal Chrysler/Ram guy, my dad worked there for 44 years. But I absolutely love my ecodiesel and if I needed to replace it in the next few years I think I'd have to go for the baby duramax.

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[StuartV]

well i tried to get in on a last eco on a 23. I was told I missed the order date for January end of ED builds. Anyway the new GM LZ0 3.0 duramax is up to 305 HP and 495 ft/lbs and increased fuel econ. So why would Ram cancel the diesel and GM make improvements??????

My guess is that they probably just weren't selling enough of them. Which I can understand. I think they have done a sh!t job of marketing them. When have you ever seen an ad actually touting the EcoDiesel?

They may have also added another bullet into their feet by not doing something to make the maintenance costs lower. I mean, my local dealer quoted me around $260 for a simple oil change and they said when it needs a fuel filter it will be about $400.

How many people have ever been put off from buying an ED because they checked into maintenance costs and were horrified?

 

[StuartV]

I've had a few days to think about this whole subject and I am feeling better about it than I was.

I bought my first Dodge (a RAM 1500) in 2009. The first year of the 4th Gen. That was a great truck. I had it for 10 years and 193K miles and traded it for a '19 (5th Gen, w/Hemi), and then traded that with 73K miles for a '21 with an ED.

My view is that Dodge/RAM has really shown themselves to be very forward-thinking and innovative. Wasn't the 4th Gen RAM the first 1/2 truck with an available diesel in many years? Ford and GM came out with theirs after (IIRC). Uconnect, coil spring rear suspension, Adaptive Cruise Control, 4-corner air suspension, RamBoxes, Multi-Function Tailgate, 12" multimedia. These are all things where I feel like RAM really showed that they had their fingertips on the pulse of the buyers and did a good job of giving us the things that we want (often, even though we didn't even realize yet that we wanted it). Not everybody wants all of that, of course. But I digress...

The point is, I'm willing to give RAM the benefit of the doubt on this for the moment. I think it is entirely possible that RAM will bring out an electric truck that will be innovative in ways that end up converting a lot of nay-sayers - like myself, even.

I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm saying, it is POSSIBLE. And, if anyone can do it, I think RAM is the most likely.

I was imagining the other day a RAM 1500 that is all-electric, with electric motors on all 4 wheels, and a range on battery of 400 miles. AND, some kind of ICE on board that generates electricity to extend range, so that, with a full tank of fuel and a full charge, it might have, I don't know, 700 (?) miles of range (or more). AND, at least 300 miles of range when towing a heavy trailer or camper.

I.e. they'll make it sound like a groundbreakingly new idea, but it would really just be a legit hybrid - versus the "mild hybrid" terminology they use to label the Hemi w/eTorque.

If they bring out a hybrid that has decent range on a single "fill-up" and decent range for long trips without long charge times (except overnight, which I'm okay with), I would probably buy in. Especially if 4 electric-wheel-drive gives better performance than a Hemi or Hurricane engine.

Also, I just got my '21 ED. So, I reckon I'll be looking to trade up around '26 or so. By then, hopefully the Long Range RAM e1500 will be out and reasonably mature - i.e. got all those 1st (and 2nd) year bugs out.

This might all work out pretty well (for ME, anyway) after all.

And we could FINALLY end the 3.21 vs 3.92 thread!

 

[nc_beagle]

I've had a few days to think about this whole subject and I am feeling better about it than I was.

I bought my first Dodge (a RAM 1500) in 2009. The first year of the 4th Gen. That was a great truck. I had it for 10 years and 193K miles and traded it for a '19 (5th Gen, w/Hemi), and then traded that with 73K miles for a '21 with an ED.

My view is that Dodge/RAM has really shown themselves to be very forward-thinking and innovative. Wasn't the 4th Gen RAM the first 1/2 truck with an available diesel in many years? Ford and GM came out with theirs after (IIRC). Uconnect, coil spring rear suspension, Adaptive Cruise Control, 4-corner air suspension, RamBoxes, Multi-Function Tailgate, 12" multimedia. These are all things where I feel like RAM really showed that they had their fingertips on the pulse of the buyers and did a good job of giving us the things that we want (often, even though we didn't even realize yet that we wanted it). Not everybody wants all of that, of course. But I digress...

The point is, I'm willing to give RAM the benefit of the doubt on this for the moment. I think it is entirely possible that RAM will bring out an electric truck that will be innovative in ways that end up converting a lot of nay-sayers - like myself, even.

I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm saying, it is POSSIBLE. And, if anyone can do it, I think RAM is the most likely.

I was imagining the other day a RAM 1500 that is all-electric, with electric motors on all 4 wheels, and a range on battery of 400 miles. AND, some kind of ICE on board that generates electricity to extend range, so that, with a full tank of fuel and a full charge, it might have, I don't know, 700 (?) miles of range (or more). AND, at least 300 miles of range when towing a heavy trailer or camper.

I.e. they'll make it sound like a groundbreakingly new idea, but it would really just be a legit hybrid - versus the "mild hybrid" terminology they use to label the Hemi w/eTorque.

If they bring out a hybrid that has decent range on a single "fill-up" and decent range for long trips without long charge times (except overnight, which I'm okay with), I would probably buy in. Especially if 4 electric-wheel-drive gives better performance than a Hemi or Hurricane engine.

Also, I just got my '21 ED. So, I reckon I'll be looking to trade up around '26 or so. By then, hopefully the Long Range RAM e1500 will be out and reasonably mature - i.e. got all those 1st (and 2nd) year bugs out.

This might all work out pretty well (for ME, anyway) after all.

And we could FINALLY end the 3.21 vs 3.92 thread!

They keep touting "Range Extending Paradigm Breaker" so surely they've got something innovative coming out.

Maybe they'll have an onboard Mr. Fusion Home Reactor.

 

[djevox]

No they don't. they cancelled it a year or two ago.

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I wonder what I was just saw yesterday when I was looking at f150 Tremors. I’ll have to dig that up again, maybe I saw really old info.

On the ecodiesel dead topic, I just had a long conversation about it with a close friend (starting with me just listening to his opinion). My major concern is if I pay this truck off in a few years, I won’t want to get rid of it. This 3rd gen engine doesn’t have a long history, and the truck has modules, harnesses, instrument cluster, driveshaft, etc., that will have to be swapped if some critical parts become unavailable and I wanted to swap to gas.

I normally wouldn’t balk at parts unavailabilty, but the covid and other world events (depending on what you believe) absolutely clobbered supply. Now the tens of thousands of parts that would be sitting around on shelves and in junkyards won’t be there. That presents a dire problem for someone that needs a module in a decade or two. This in itself just put the truck on borrowed time in my mind. I’ll probably be into sometime else in the next year or two, and the brand name will probably start with an F.

 

[Brutal_HO]

You think you guys are mad, Ram dropped the Hemi from the Longhorn and Limited HD trucks. They had less than 5% take rate.

Expected to be available in the upcoming Rebel, but no news yet.

 

[tom318]

I wonder what I was just saw yesterday when I was looking at f150 Tremors. I’ll have to dig that up again, maybe I saw really old info.

On the ecodiesel dead topic, I just had a long conversation about it with a close friend (starting with me just listening to his opinion). My major concern is if I pay this truck off in a few years, I won’t want to get rid of it. This 3rd gen engine doesn’t have a long history, and the truck has modules, harnesses, instrument cluster, driveshaft, etc., that will have to be swapped if some critical parts become unavailable and I wanted to swap to gas.

I normally wouldn’t balk at parts unavailabilty, but the covid and other world events (depending on what you believe) absolutely clobbered supply. Now the tens of thousands of parts that would be sitting around on shelves and in junkyards won’t be there. That presents a dire problem for someone that needs a module in a decade or two. This in itself just put the truck on borrowed time in my mind. I’ll probably be into sometime else in the next year or two, and the brand name will probably start with an F.

I felt this way to but there is always a way and if there is money to be made someone will make replacement parts. Since I own one, I now feel lucky to have had the opportunity to order the one i wanted stress free and am able to enjoy it.
Maybe once all these EV trucks start coming out with their 50-100 miles of towing range.....my beat to **** ED will be worth 40k again with 250k miles hahaha.

I feel like I see more ED 1500s than Hemi Longhorn or Limited HD trucks on the roads but that could be just based on my location. Though that just seems annoying considering its still available on other trims.

This last call should have been more like, get your order in by January 2023 and not production will end in January 2023. Looks like the window is already up as some have mentioned they cant order one anymore. I bet as this news came out dealers ordered as many as they could and will charge a premium instead of leaving them for direct customer orders.

 

[djevox]

I felt this way to but there is always a way and if there is money to be made someone will make replacement parts. Since I own one, I now feel lucky to have had the opportunity to order the one i wanted stress free and am able to enjoy it.
Maybe once all these EV trucks start coming out with their 50-100 miles of towing range.....my beat to **** ED will be worth 40k again with 250k miles hahaha.

I feel like I see more ED 1500s than Hemi Longhorn or Limited HD trucks on the roads but that could be just based on my location. Though that just seems annoying considering its still available on other trims.

This last call should have been more like, get your order in by January 2023 and not production will end in January 2023. Looks like the window is already up as some have mentioned they cant order one anymore. I bet as this news came out dealers ordered as many as they could and will charge a premium instead of leaving them for direct customer orders.

I never thought about the dealer orders. That’s funny and sad at the same time. I still maintain the dealership model should be abolished.

 

[StuartV]

I feel like I see more ED 1500s than Hemi Longhorn or Limited HD trucks on the roads but that could be just based on my location. Though that just seems annoying considering its still available on other trims.

Me, too. I feel like I have never seen THAT many EcoDiesels, but I have definitely seen more EDs than I have ever seen any HD trucks with Hemis.

Personally, there is no way I would ever buy an HD with a Hemi. If I need the capacity of the HD, I'm going to want the Cummins to power it.

I went down the road of a gas engine in a 3/4 ton truck when I had an F250 with a 6.8L V10. Never again.

 

[tom318]

I never thought about the dealer orders. That’s funny and sad at the same time. I still maintain the dealership model should be abolished.

I agree with the current dealership situation. I feel Ram, Ford and really any of them who want to battle these ridiculous dealer makeup’s can settle it with a simple online order and pick up at the factory. At least start there and for those who don’t really want to haggle. Offer some standard incentives/sales the dealers give anyway and drop the cost by the 1500-2500(maybe the dealer Hold back) and let people order online and deal with picking up at the factory. Or ship them to peoples door steps for $1800 or whatever....even if it’s not that great of a deal to order directly it would likely slow down the dealer markup trend.

 

[StuartV]

So, where are y'all going to take your trucks for warranty repairs once you put all these dealerships out of business?

 

[n8zcc]

So, where are y'all going to take your trucks for warranty repairs once you put all these dealerships out of business?

Since dealerships are made up of individual profit centers, simply keep the service and body shops and dispose of the rest.

 

[Aseras]

So, where are y'all going to take your trucks for warranty repairs once you put all these dealerships out of business?

Honestly I trust the nearest Hobo more than the average dealer tech.

 

[StuartV]

I have dealt with Dodge/RAM dealers from FL to CA to MD, and in between, over the least 13 years and 270K+ miles.

I have found a bad one or two, but most of them have always done totally fine by me.

 

[wegasque]

My guess is that they probably just weren't selling enough of them. Which I can understand. I think they have done a sh!t job of marketing them. When have you ever seen an ad actually touting the EcoDiesel?

They may have also added another bullet into their feet by not doing something to make the maintenance costs lower. I mean, my local dealer quoted me around $260 for a simple oil change and they said when it needs a fuel filter it will be about $400.

How many people have ever been put off from buying an ED because they checked into maintenance costs and were horrified?

Something else to consider regarding maintenance costs. You should also be able to take them to a Cummins dealer. My wife had a pet grooming van (Sprinter) and we used to take it to the local Cummins shop instead of going to the dealer. While we didn't shop the costs, I cna tell you that their customer service was much better than any dealer I've ever been to. Not sure how widespread the Cummins shops are, but it might be something to keep in mind if you have one near you.

 

[nc_beagle]

I posted this on another forum after remembering that I liked the Nikola Badger's exterior design. I reread the details on the release of the vehicle (which I know never happened)

I wonder if this is Ram's "paradigm breaker?" Nikola said they'd build this truck with another OEM manufacturer. It uses a battery and a fuel cell to combine for 600 mile range. I know Nikola had all sorts of issues, but I wonder if Stellantis is buying the tech--assuming the tech was legit?

https://nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-unveils-the-nikola-badger-pickup-73

Of course hydrogen stations aren't very common in my area.