News on a tune?

[J-Cooz]

It is intentional. They programmed it to do this to keep RPM high and thereby warm the engine up faster.

Problem is, the engine doesn't need to be warmed up faster because it has an electric heating element grid in the interior ductwork that heats the cabin almost immediately. So the only thing they accomplished with the below 15 MPH tuning is that they made it frustrating. It's so bad that I'm considering flashing the trans. back to stock until they get it resolved.

Imagine driving a stick shift vehicle but without a clutch pedal. NO ability to coast. Just 100% connected driveline all the time. The throttle is the only way to modulate speed. Extremely annoying, and twice as bad when it's cold outside and the engine stays below operating temp longer.

So far, this below 15 MPH behavior is my only complaint with the tune, but it's a big one. I will also say that WOT runs aren't as linear feeling as stock. Definitely stronger and faster, but not as smooth and linear.

Interesting. Appreciate the feedback. Sounds like it needs a little polishing.

I honestly don't mind the transmission behavior on my Ram, after the update it's quite good. I just want the extra power.

Looking forward to your reviews as the miles stack up, hopefully it smoothes out a bit. I watched your video and it was well done.


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[WXman]

Interesting. Appreciate the feedback. Sounds like it needs a little polishing.

I honestly don't mind the transmission behavior on my Ram, after the update it's quite good. I just want the extra power.

Looking forward to your reviews as the miles stack up, hopefully it smoothes out a bit. I watched your video and it was well done.


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Thanks. Yeah they gave me a flash tool for the trans, but the problem is if I go back to stock that means I'm going back to all the included torque management which in turn means I won't be able to utilize the added engine power. So without the trans. tune it's not as great of a deal. I do hope they polish it up a bit more.

Above 15 MPH it's awesome. It's only below 15 MPH that it sucks. Off road, gravel roads, neighborhoods, that sort of driving...

 

[J-Cooz]

Thanks. Yeah they gave me a flash tool for the trans, but the problem is if I go back to stock that means I'm going back to all the included torque management which in turn means I won't be able to utilize the added engine power. So without the trans. tune it's not as great of a deal. I do hope they polish it up a bit more.

Above 15 MPH it's awesome. It's only below 15 MPH that it sucks. Off road, gravel roads, neighborhoods, that sort of driving...

Have you asked them about it? Surely they must have felt that in the testing.

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[Daverous]

I just took mine out to test this issue. Pulled back into the garage 5 minutes ago. I've done a lot of highway so far, but not much in the way of stop and go with a cold drive train.
While I notice the initial snappy throttle response in first gear from a dead stop, I'm not noticing it much at all above that. I tried it out in a few parking lots before getting to operating temps. I'm wondering if it's transmission learning, vehicle weight, axles, or perhaps I'm just used to a different feeling than the stock unit at this point. I know I've toned back my right foot significantly since the stock pcm was last in the truck 6 months ago. If you're free at some point over the next few days I'd be game to compare notes in person or otherwise @WXman .

 

[Aseras]

So you posted a pic of the truck on the dyno, but no graphs? For shame....

What do the monitors show up in torque or another obd2 app?

 

[J-Cooz]

So you posted a pic of the truck on the dyno, but no graphs? For shame....

What do the monitors show up in torque or another obd2 app?

He literally said he didn't receive the file yet....

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[Daverous]

I have my first 1000 miles in at this point, and while I absolutely need to run down several more driving conditions here are my first impressions in a little more detail.

Sound: This is one of the first things I noticed when GDE started up their test truck for me to drive while they were working on my truck. The pilot injection change is noticeable, but not in a bad way. It has more of the diesel sound that I'm used to without being overbearing. I also noticed additional turbo noise when on my test drive and in my own truck. Enough to inspire me to removed the T&S intake tube(caveat, there are some other reasons I would have done this after my visit as well).

Acceleration: Night and day from stock, and also a significant change from my previous setup(More on that at a later time). They've mapped drive modes with different parameters to make sure you're both safe and happy. For example they've tuned back some of the power while in warm up mode in order to prevent damage but to also provide a more responsive and enjoyable driving experience. They let me know there are 10 driving modes if memory serves me, and they made sure to match driver needs and mechanical needs. Smart move. The last thing you would want to do is damage something because you were silly about slamming the pedal with cold fluids. It's all done in such a way that you don't have to think about it. You can give the truck full throttle when in warm up mode and it will make the adjustments on its end to suit the situation.

Power: Another huge bump vs stock. I'd still like to flip my stock PCM back in and do more back to back runs. My opinion is slightly skewed based on already having a tune installed. The power comes on faster than stock, that's for sure. It's a little bit of a strange feeling winding it out to higher RPMs. Because the torque and HP curves are so divergent in this little diesel it feels like a huge surge of power early as the torque hits, but then feels like it tapers down to a less powerful truck as the RPMs increase. It still flat hauls, especially for its size and fuel economy, it's just different. Overall a very nice bump. I really enjoy keeping it in that torque band.

Fuel economy: Needs more testing! GDE has done theirs and I have no doubt I'll see the claimed increases. That being said I'm averaging around 24 on a winter blend with 3.92s and the 33" duratracs. Previously I was averaging 24 on a SUMMER blend from April to October with my previous tune. Based on what I've seen with my truck with slightly warmer temps and a summer blend I would expect to average between 26 and 27 mpg. Time will tell on that front. I'll say that it's much harder to maintain reasonable right pedal control when you're first playing with a new tune.

Overall a very solid choice. Will it be my personal long term tune? I have a few things to sort out before making that decision. As of right now, without any of the other background conversations being complete yet, I'd say yes. I'll be leaving it installed. The attention to detail with this tune is outstanding and you can't go wrong. The only things that make me want to continue to test are all emissions related.

I'll report back with additional testing as I get the miles in. Now I just need HD diesel supply to get something out there, maybe Reckless, and I can put all my my questions to bed.

If you have questions don't hesitate to ask and I'll always answer to the best of my ability. If you're looking for a head to head on these two please give me time. I'm working to resolve a few things offline before heading down that rabbit hole. I have no doubt regardless of how objective I am with it someone will cry foul.

 

[J-Cooz]

I have my first 1000 miles in at this point, and while I absolutely need to run down several more driving conditions here are my first impressions in a little more detail.

Sound: This is one of the first things I noticed when GDE started up their test truck for me to drive while they were working on my truck. The pilot injection change is noticeable, but not in a bad way. It has more of the diesel sound that I'm used to without being overbearing. I also noticed additional turbo noise when on my test drive and in my own truck. Enough to inspire me to removed the T&S intake tube(caveat, there are some other reasons I would have done this after my visit as well).

Acceleration: Night and day from stock, and also a significant change from my previous setup(More on that at a later time). They've mapped drive modes with different parameters to make sure you're both safe and happy. For example they've tuned back some of the power while in warm up mode in order to prevent damage but to also provide a more responsive and enjoyable driving experience. They let me know there are 10 driving modes if memory serves me, and they made sure to match driver needs and mechanical needs. Smart move. The last thing you would want to do is damage something because you were silly about slamming the pedal with cold fluids. It's all done in such a way that you don't have to think about it. You can give the truck full throttle when in warm up mode and it will make the adjustments on its end to suit the situation.

Power: Another huge bump vs stock. I'd still like to flip my stock PCM back in and do more back to back runs. My opinion is slightly skewed based on already having a tune installed. The power comes on faster than stock, that's for sure. It's a little bit of a strange feeling winding it out to higher RPMs. Because the torque and HP curves are so divergent in this little diesel it feels like a huge surge of power early as the torque hits, but then feels like it tapers down to a less powerful truck as the RPMs increase. It still flat hauls, especially for its size and fuel economy, it's just different. Overall a very nice bump. I really enjoy keeping it in that torque band.

Fuel economy: Needs more testing! GDE has done theirs and I have no doubt I'll see the claimed increases. That being said I'm averaging around 24 on a winter blend with 3.92s and the 33" duratracs. Previously I was averaging 24 on a SUMMER blend from April to October with my previous tune. Based on what I've seen with my truck with slightly warmer temps and a summer blend I would expect to average between 26 and 27 mpg. Time will tell on that front. I'll say that it's much harder to maintain reasonable right pedal control when you're first playing with a new tune.

Overall a very solid choice. Will it be my personal long term tune? I have a few things to sort out before making that decision. As of right now, without any of the other background conversations being complete yet, I'd say yes. I'll be leaving it installed. The attention to detail with this tune is outstanding and you can't go wrong. The only things that make me want to continue to test are all emissions related.

I'll report back with additional testing as I get the miles in. Now I just need HD diesel supply to get something out there, maybe Reckless, and I can put all my my questions to bed.

If you have questions don't hesitate to ask and I'll always answer to the best of my ability. If you're looking for a head to head on these two please give me time. I'm working to resolve a few things in the background before heading down that rabbit hole. I have no doubt regardless of how objective I am with it someone will cry foul.

Have you noticed the low speed lurching that Wxman has reported? Any more info on that?

Nevermind..I just saw your previous post.

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[Daverous]

Yep. I'd love to compare across platforms if possible. I've been making multiple short city trips cold this weekend to play around with that aspect. I have no doubt he's seeing the issue, I'm just curious about any variance between the two vehicles.

Edit* I did get a response from GDE related to their experience across platforms and this issue. Their experience is that they drive pretty much the same. The larger determining factor with this will be driving style, apparently. Makes perfect sense. I use the throttle like an scared old man when around town because more often than not my kid has something she may spill if I jump on it. Looks like that muscle memory is paying off in this situation. I'll try some more aggressive driving when I head out in a bit.

 

[J-Cooz]

Thanks for the update.

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[Daverous]

I played around with some sharp throttle jabs this afternoon. The manual transmission feeling is more pronounced in the first few minutes of operating from a cold start. Personally, I don't find it overbearing, but keep in mind I've spent a lot of time moving cold tractors(big rig: Volvo, kenworth, ext.) around a yard. I know GDE is taking a look at the programming to be more universally friendly. After the first 5ish minutes I personally notice almost nothing. I tried about every combination of throttle usage I could think of. Quick hits, hard floor mashing, on and off fluttering, anything I could think of to cause a hard jerk.

Sure would be nice if we could just start a pass around of a pcm for everyone to try out and provide feedback haha. I'm sure 50 people would provide 100 different opinions.

 

[WXman]

Yep. I'd love to compare across platforms if possible. I've been making multiple short city trips cold this weekend to play around with that aspect. I have no doubt he's seeing the issue, I'm just curious about any variance between the two vehicles.

Edit* I did get a response from GDE related to their experience across platforms and this issue. Their experience is that they drive pretty much the same. The larger determining factor with this will be driving style, apparently. Makes perfect sense. I use the throttle like an scared old man when around town because more often than not my kid has something she may spill if I jump on it. Looks like that muscle memory is paying off in this situation. I'll try some more aggressive driving when I head out in a bit.

That's exactly when it's a problem; low speed and gentle on the pedal. Again, this is a below 15 MPH issue. For example, pulling through a neighborhood first thing in the morning. Or in my case 1/2 mile of gravel lane before I see pavement. In stock form the truck will shift. 1, 2, 3... Converter unlocked. Nice and smooth. With the GDE programming it stays in 1st until 3,000 RPM, then goes to 2nd and tries to hang there as long as possible. Converter locked. Very annoying.

GDE acknowledged in the other forum this morning that it's programmed into their tune on purpose to warm the truck up faster and mainly for emissions. They said they will work on smoothing that out and see if they can tweak it to function a little better at low speed. I told them to let me know when that version is ready so I can update mine.

I also got a CEL yesterday. P026D. I cleared that code and this morning it didn't come back yet. Hopefully it was a fluke.

 

[c3k]

@WXman and @Daverous ,

Thanks for posting this information. Keep sharing your experience. I'm 99% sure I'll go this route, but I don't like the lockup at start/slow that you've described. I live in a neighborhood and that'd be too annoying...for me and my neighbors.

 

[WXman]

I'd also like to clarify that this low speed issue only happens with a cold engine. Once it's at operating temperature it's not a problem, as you would expect since they're only doing it to warm up things faster.

So, in the grand scheme of things the tune is still awesome. There are SO many benefits to this tune, and only one minor drawback which they'll fix soon. So I still highly recommend it.

 

[WXman]

Enough to inspire me to removed the T&S intake tube(caveat, there are some other reasons I would have done this after my visit as well).


If you have questions don't hesitate to ask and I'll always answer to the best of my ability.

I'd like to hear more about this. Did they mention to you that the additional flow/change in flow might not play well with their tuning? I was running a slightly modified factory airbox when my CEL came on the other night and I've wondered if that had anything to do with it.

 

[Daverous]

Good question, @WXman. A couple of things drove me to remove it that they mentioned and one that I had noticed early on.
There was a portion of the intake tube that rubbed the top of the motor. I'm not sure if you noticed that on your truck or not, but I "clearanced" the tube with a hammer to prevent some of the contact and it still shifted a bit and required monitoring. When I arrived after that long trip on rough roads it was contacting the top of the motor again. T&S really needs an additional brace like the factory tube to keep it from relying solely on those couplers for support.
When the hood was popped in their shop the clamps that held on the silicone couplers were a bit loose as well. Possibly part of why it was contacting the motor. I think you noticed they did this too, and require that you retighten them from time to time. Both issues are because it wasn't welded with an offset like the original tube and lacks a brace. It leads to the potential for failure that isn't there in the original design.
GDE suggested paying close attention for air leaks because of the slight fitment issues and the clamps loosening over time. They also suggested a paper filter over the oil filter I had in due to turbine wear they've seen with aftermarket filters. The design of the metal pipe made changing that filter more difficult as well.

Originally we thought there may be time to test the pipes back to back, but due to the distance and the other testing they did while I was there it just wasn't meant to be. I simply chose the option that required the least amount of additional time and the least amount of worry related to longevity. Wish I had numbers to back it up, but if my butt can't tell a difference either way I'll stick with the one that requires me to spend less time under the hood. I'm also sure I'll play around with that pipe later and maybe add a brace or something...More whistle is better, right?

 

[WXman]

Good question, @WXman. A couple of things drove me to remove it that they mentioned and one that I had noticed early on.
There was a portion of the intake tube that rubbed the top of the motor. I'm not sure if you noticed that on your truck or not, but I "clearanced" the tube with a hammer to prevent some of the contact and it still shifted a bit and required monitoring. When I arrived after that long trip on rough roads it was contacting the top of the motor again. T&S really needs an additional brace like the factory tube to keep it from relying solely on those couplers for support.
When the hood was popped in their shop the clamps that held on the silicone couplers were a bit loose as well. Possibly part of why it was contacting the motor. I think you noticed they did this too, and require that you retighten them from time to time. Both issues are because it wasn't welded with an offset like the original tube and lacks a brace. It leads to the potential for failure that isn't there in the original design.
GDE suggested paying close attention for air leaks because of the slight fitment issues and the clamps loosening over time. They also suggested a paper filter over the oil filter I had in due to turbine wear they've seen with aftermarket filters. The design of the metal pipe made changing that filter more difficult as well.

Originally we thought there may be time to test the pipes back to back, but due to the distance and the other testing they did while I was there it just wasn't meant to be. I simply chose the option that required the least amount of additional time and the least amount of worry related to longevity. Wish I had numbers to back it up, but if my butt can't tell a difference either way I'll stick with the one that requires me to spend less time under the hood. I'm also sure I'll play around with that pipe later and maybe add a brace or something...More whistle is better, right?

Ah ok. Thanks for taking the time to explain that. Sounds like it's all related to fitment. I did notice that the pipe made contact with the engine cover but I didn't like running the cover anyway. The other minor contact never bothered me. I also kept the clamps pretty tight and I'd check them at every oil change and they'd still be very tight. At the airbox I found that I could loosen both of the clamps at the airbox and pop the tube out quickly for filter changes. So none of these things bothered me personally. I enjoyed the sound and slight bit of engine response.

I just wanted to make sure that the airflow differences weren't the reason they didn't like it because I have an AFE intake on order right now LOL and I hope it plays nice with the GDE tune!

 

[Specialk181]

Hey

Finally installed MRTuning stage 2 tune on mine and it is sweet. No pedal lag and lot of power and it sounds great too

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Looks good DieselRebel!

Any chance we can get a vid or sound clip of this? I've gone from a 2016 straight piped cummins to a 2022 Ecodiesel and I'll be honest; I miss the sound!

How's the drone on the highways?

Thanks!

Kevin

 

[Malodave]

Got an appointment set up for first thing on Monday the 6th to install the Tune on my 2021 Laramie.
I can check MPG on the way out before the tune and on the way back after the tune.

Malodave

 

[c3k]

GDE tuned guys (at this point, just @WXman and @Daverous soon to be joined by @Malodave ) :

I thought GDE said that their transmission tune would include the ability to use the steering wheel +/- buttons as a form of manumatic shifter. (They currently just act as a gear limiter, not a selector.) Have you guys added the transmission tune to your engine tune? If so, did GDE incorporate that functionality into the tune and, if so, how well does it work?

Thanks.