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Invoice is the New MSRP

jsmith032

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Curious what people are paying for "invoice". Im about to pull the trigger on a Limited, night edition fully loaded, moonroof, tech package, for $65k. MSRP was $73,600.

EDIT: Here's my breakdown

$73,645 MSRP

$65,821 Price before taxes
$3,126 Taxes
$150 Dealer Fee
$325 Gov Fee

$71,172.82 Total Sales Price
 
Last edited:

DevinB

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Example of percentage off MSRP

2021 Ram 1500 Limited
MSRP $73,640

$61,119 Sale Price
$1,200 Paint and Fabric Protector and Window Etching
$150 Doc Fee
$944.31 lic/plates/title
$6,501.28 tax
$71,914.59 OTD

You must include all non government required fees in the price.
$61,119 Sale Price
$1,200 Paint and Fabric Protector and Window Etching
$150 Doc Fee
$62,469 Total
62,469 is a 15.16% decrease of 73,640

You can then deduct rebates and incentives.
$62,469 Total
-$1,000 PenFed Rebate
-$1,500 Website Popup Rebate
New Total $59,969
59,969 is a 18.56% decrease of 73,640

You do not include any government fees or trade ins.
$944.31 lic/plates/title
$6,501.28 tax

In this example the final percentage off MSRP is 18.56%
What state are you in with a 10% new car sales tax?
 

jdmartin

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What state are you in with a 10% new car sales tax?
Back of the envelope $3200 tax on $65k vehicle is 5%, not 10. But there are states that high. My state (TN) charges 7% state and whatever local option there is, which in my area is 2.5%. So that's almost 10%.
 

Maconi

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Curious what people are paying for "invoice". Im about to pull the trigger on a Limited, night edition fully loaded, moonroof, tech package, for $65k. MSRP was $73,600.

EDIT: Here's my breakdown

$73,645 MSRP

$65,821 Price before taxes
$3,126 Taxes
$150 Dealer Fee
$325 Gov Fee

$71,172.82 Total Sales Price
In 2019/early 2020 you could have gotten that truck for around $57,000 (around 22% off MSRP). I don't know what the market is like now thanks to COVID though.
 

Runagun

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Curious what people are paying for "invoice". Im about to pull the trigger on a Limited, night edition fully loaded, moonroof, tech package, for $65k. MSRP was $73,600.

EDIT: Here's my breakdown

$73,645 MSRP

$65,821 Price before taxes
$3,126 Taxes
$150 Dealer Fee
$325 Gov Fee

$71,172.82 Total Sales Price
im looking at one right around that price on paying 60k OTD. But i gotta travel for it and dont care too much about the night edition. So i havent pulled the trigger.
 

arod412

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Highest sales taxes in the country as of Jan 2020

View attachment 80753
Keep in mind, if you go out of state, you don't pay that state tax, and you might be liable for paying taxes out of pocket in YOUR state.

This happened to me like 10 years ago. Went back to the dealer, and they decided to pay my state taxes.

I live in NJ...so tax suck ...lol

Owner of a 2020 Ram Laramie (leveled with 2" rc struts and 1" rear spacer on 33.5" toyo open country) , 16 Dodge Charger scat pack and my wife 21 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara (2.5" rc lift with 35" duratracs)
 

blazenlo

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Invoice is the New MSRP

Paying invoice is now paying full price.

I sent this simple email to over twenty dealerships.

"I am looking to order a 2021 Ram 1500 Limited. I am sending this to multiple dealers and will go with the lowest price below invoice not including rebates or incentives. Please send me your lowest price. Build attached."

Not one quoted me a price above invoice. Many quoted me invoice or 1% below. My lowest initial quote was 6% below.

If you pay invoice minus all available rebates and incentives, you are paying full price.

As most of you know invoice minus holdback is no longer what the dealer really pays for vehicles.

The below is from James Bragg.

Today about 90% of “dealer cash” dollars are allocated to secret, “below-the-line” programs that are typically tied to multi-month total sales targets and other non-sales objectives that are set dealer-by-dealer. And no one can tell you who’s got what targets, where they stand against them, or even when those programs start and end.

I get the straight skinny on these programs right from the horse’s mouth.

• A woman who got her popular import-brand midsize sedan for $800 below invoice was thanked by the sales manager, who told her that her purchase and the others that day got the dealership to the automakers’ multi-month sales target, earning them another $1,000 for each vehicle sold. (That brand’s average dealer sold 1,197 new vehicles last year, 100 per month.)
• When a couple paid $2,000 below invoice for Detroit’s best-selling pickup in December, a friend at the dealership told them, “Your purchase got us to the sales level for that truck that earns us an extra $750 for every unit we’ve sold this year.”
• A customer paid $2,317 below invoice for one of the most popular Japanese midsize sedans. The sales manager said he lost over $1,500 on the sale. Then he added, “I did that because the automaker has us on a ‘stair-step’ incentive program. As we reach each higher total sales target, we get more money per car for all the cars we’ve sold. Your sale got us to the next plateau.”
• A Detroit automaker ran an “Employee Price” consumer promotion. That was about 5% below the total dealer invoice. But at the end of two quarters some customers bought their vehicles for as much as $2,000 below that price. A salesperson told one of them: “The factory is running quarterly promotions in which we can earn six-figure bonuses by reaching our sales targets. So we didn’t care how much we lost on your deal.”
• It can be tough to deal on an all-new design because the early demand usually exceeds the early supply. But a customer’s wife wanted a “hot” redesigned import sedan in its first week on the market, and as he told me, “It’s a lot cheaper to trade in cars than to trade in wives.” Nine of the ten price proposals he received were at the full MSRP. But one dealer sold the car for $2,500 less, $500 to $600 below the invoice price. In week #1! The owner took him aside quietly and said, “Here’s why I did that. My sales target is 1,000 new cars. I’m so close to that bonus check I can almost taste it.” I guessed that was about $500 per vehicle — a half million bucks. I learned later from a reliable source that the real number for that brand was $1,200 to $1,800 per vehicle. (You can do the math.)

Rebate vs. lower interest: Which car incentive is right for you? LINK

The Best Time to Buy Your Ram LINK

How to Get the Best Price on Your New Ram​


The myth about dealer cash incentives

How were you able to get email addresses? All I see is chat which is typically someone from a different country asking for a phone#.
 

Silent Bob

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How were you able to get email addresses? All I see is chat which is typically someone from a different country asking for a phone#.
Many times there are not specific emails but a form to fill out. Ask for a sales manager to contact you and provide an email address. If all you can find is "chat" do the same thing. I never give out a real phone number early in the process, to many calls from salesman that will not give you a good deal.
 

WarReadyVet

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Is there a rule of thumb (rather than a formula) to apply some of this logic to used vehicles? Right now I just usually stick with a resource like cars dot com or car gurus dot com (not sure if I can post other sites her or no) in order to determine "good" and "great deals". The downside of that, when searching for a 5th gen is there are so few on the market to actually match (same options, ect.) and I don't have a way of determining what the final sale price was, should a vehicle move. I work in real estate, and much more easily navigate that as all sales are of public record.
 

Silent Bob

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Is there a rule of thumb (rather than a formula) to apply some of this logic to used vehicles? Right now I just usually stick with a resource like cars dot com or car gurus dot com (not sure if I can post other sites her or no) in order to determine "good" and "great deals". The downside of that, when searching for a 5th gen is there are so few on the market to actually match (same options, ect.) and I don't have a way of determining what the final sale price was, should a vehicle move. I work in real estate, and much more easily navigate that as all sales are of public record.
For used cars I usually use Autotrader, CarsDirect, or Craigslist. I then see how much Carvana or Vroom would pay for my chosen vehicles.
 

WarReadyVet

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So I took your advice, and just did a quick for instance:

Using Autotrader, I found an example in Uniontown, PA.

$33,433 which KBB says is fair.

Using Carvana:

$24,358 for trade in value.

So about a $9k difference in order to haggle? Am I approaching that correctly?
 

blazenlo

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Many times there are not specific emails but a form to fill out. Ask for a sales manager to contact you and provide an email address. If all you can find is "chat" do the same thing. I never give out a real phone number early in the process, to many calls from salesman that will not give you a good deal.
Thank you! Exactly why I asked regarding the phone #.
 

Silent Bob

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So I took your advice, and just did a quick for instance:

Using Autotrader, I found an example in Uniontown, PA.

$33,433 which KBB says is fair.

Using Carvana:

$24,358 for trade in value.

So about a $9k difference in order to haggle? Am I approaching that correctly?
That is a good indicator. Keep in mind that Carvana plans on selling that vehicle for much more.
 

86grand

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So I took your advice, and just did a quick for instance:

Using Autotrader, I found an example in Uniontown, PA.

$33,433 which KBB says is fair.

Using Carvana:

$24,358 for trade in value.

So about a $9k difference in order to haggle? Am I approaching that correctly?
I'd try to get at least private party value or lower through a dealer. Thats a pretty big price difference between trade and fair value.
 

Silent Bob

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Holy shatner. And Lol...look at Alabama with its 4 and 13.5 and then Colorado with 2.9 and 10. It's like the State and Local governments collude ahead of time, "Hey, uh, do you wanna **** 'em or should we?"
"Death and Taxes"
 

realralfy

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Back of the envelope $3200 tax on $65k vehicle is 5%, not 10. But there are states that high. My state (TN) charges 7% state and whatever local option there is, which in my area is 2.5%. So that's almost 10%.
In TN, the local portion (2.5% in your case) is only charged in the first $1600 of the vehicle. The state portion (7%) is charged in the entire amount less any trade-in....
 

Sudar

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Test drove 1500 Limited.....dealer wants 10% over MSRP lol. Is getting 20% off invoice still valid? And how does the tradein process work if you are buying out of state?
 

GregHBNA

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Back of the envelope $3200 tax on $65k vehicle is 5%, not 10. But there are states that high. My state (TN) charges 7% state and whatever local option there is, which in my area is 2.5%. So that's almost 10%.
7% sales tax + $80 single article tax + .36% business tax in TN
 

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