If the 5.7 Hemi goes away in 2024, I'm out of the RAM

[WXman]

One thing to remember is that dodge is changing, but that doesn't mean lost sales, it could just mean different sales/buyers. There are lots of buyers who would be very interested in EV sports cars/family cars.

Maybe, but until 2023 the Challenger was the #1 seller in the segment. It was even outselling the Mustang, despite the Mustang being a much more established nameplate and the car itself being all-new for 2015. Why? Hemi. The buzz around Scat Packs, Hellkittens, Demons, etc. is what kept the Dodge cars that debuted way back in the 2000s alive and not just alive but selling at the top. 2023 rolls around and Dodge says "Last Call!" and sales start to shrink, further proving that if a company doesn't give buyers in that segment what they want (V8s) they'll go elsewhere.

I can see some new buyers for an EV Charger/Challenger. But I can't see enough to even remotely come close to selling 55,000 of them annually like they had been doing with Hemis under the hood.

I think Dodge as a brand is done. By 2028 they'll be gone or sold off.

Ram may survive if the 3.0TT engine proves itself but I think without at least having a V8 option their #2 place on the chart will never happen again. Ever. Somebody noted above that the Ford EcoBoost sales are higher than Coyote V8 sales. Yes, but that's misleading. If we look at individual engine sales the V8 has always outsold either of the EcoBoost engines. That may have changed recently but I know that for the first 6-8 years of EcoBoost production it was true, people clearly still wanted the V8. I'm sure Ford thought they would entice people with the EcoBoost until it proved itself then drop the V8, but when sales didn't go like they thought they kept Coyote around and updated it. Twice. And GM still sells 5.3s and 6.2s faster than they can make them. Ram is in trouble. Dodge is done. Jeep better get things in order FAST.....

 

[John Galt]

Dodge’s entire image is the Hemi Challenger and Charger no doubt about that. Eliminating that excitement is going to completely change the face of the company. Not sure how they think they can survive that. The used market on those vehicles is gonna get extremely busy and new vehicle sales will plummet. True performance oriented buyers who love good ole’ US V8 muscle will run away from the six popper in droves and never come back. At this point I honestly think these car companies don’t really care anymore due to government regulations. It’s a losing battle for them and in the end we all lose.

Taking out the Hemi puts Dodge squarely back into the 300 days. That is NOT a good place.

American manufacturers don’t win the econobox war…..even when they look like a Bentley knock off.

 

[Dewey]

One thing to remember is that dodge is changing, but that doesn't mean lost sales, it could just mean different sales/buyers. There are lots of buyers who would be very interested in EV sports cars/family cars.

There are even more that have no interest. I suspect whatever company holds onto a V8 the longest will reap record sales. EV’s are supposedly the hype but lucky if 2 out of 10 people I talk to are even remotely interested in buying one. I imagine that’s a regional thing. Around here EV’s have almost zero interest. Harley Davidson claims they’ll be transitioning to full electric over the next decade. I expect that to fail miserably. Government regulations will be the death of a lot of manufacturers.

 

[John Galt]

There are even more that have no interest. I suspect whatever company holds onto a V8 the longest will reap record sales. EV’s are supposedly the hype but lucky if 2 out of 10 people I talk to are even remotely interested in buying one. I imagine that’s a regional thing. Around here EV’s have almost zero interest. Harley Davidson claims they’ll be transitioning to full electric over the next decade. I expect that to fail miserably. Government regulations will be the death of a lot of manufacturers.

EVs are toys for urban virtue signalers. They create more environmental damage and cost more when you start looking beyond the tip of the EV buyer‘s nose. They’re too expensive and less practical than an affordable econobox.

I stopped buying Harleys when they introduced liquid cooling.

EPA‘s regulation days are numbered since SCOTUS looks like they’re about to overturn Chevron. We’ll see which manufacturers will be brave enough to give the consumer what they want rather than what the government says they want.

 

[jimothy]

Dodge’s entire image is the Hemi Challenger and Charger no doubt about that. Eliminating that excitement is going to completely change the face of the company. Not sure how they think they can survive that. The used market on those vehicles is gonna get extremely busy and new vehicle sales will plummet. True performance oriented buyers who love good ole’ US V8 muscle will run away from the six popper in droves and never come back.

I see what you’re saying, but they’ll have little places to run to. They’ve got the Mustang for now (and probably years to come, since the Coyote was just updated), but that’s it.

The Camaro is gone, and rumors are that if it returns, it’ll be an EV. The Challenger and/or Charger will at least be offered with Hurricane, so it’s not EV or nothing.

So disgruntled Mopar V8 fans only have one place to run: Mustang. I’ll bet some will stick around, or come back. There just aren’t many alternatives.

 

[jdawgjm]

I rode in a hurricane HO. It’s plenty fast, very. And very very smooth. The only difference feel wise was initial throttle tip in and sub 1500 rpm power. The hurricane doesn’t have that v8 torque. But once you’re in the 2k rpm range the power is massive.

I think a lot of Ram owners will switch once they see they can blast through 0-60 in 4.5 or 5 seconds.

The issues I thought about were the terrible gas mileage I saw, complexity of twin turbos over time, and longevity with respect to sustained performance of a DI engine given the known byproduct of carbon build up, and how that further lowers fuel efficiency.

Again regarding power, when you drive moderately aggressive the mpg dives hard to single digits. With my V8 it never gets that bad.

I believe given what we know already that the HO option might not be all that reliable, as a truck engine doing frequent pulling. I can see Ram lowering the HP/TQ to achieve that, plus retaining the “regular” fuel rating. You have to go premium fuel on the HO. Me personally one of the reasons I went with the Hemi was the ability to use regular. I have been putting premium in my vehicles the past 20 some years (required) and I got tired of throwing money away.

Want to preface that I specifically went over these points early in the year and that’s why I now have a 2023 Hemi. I know for sure repairs are going to be known, cheap, and engine more reliable and longer running. I want the truck to be near major issue free for (mechanically) for 10 years.

Would I enjoy the speed of the hurricane? Yea.
Is it worth the short term experimentation? No. Definitely not on the wallet (mpg, longevity, etc).

One thing I never mention was sound. It was underwhelming. Even if it sounded like a Supra we’re talking about serious drone and it just never will sound right. I think all the Ford EcoBoost trucks sound lame. Nonetheless sound is not a true consideration for me. If the hurricane had reliability, longevity, and greater mpg I’d get it even though it would sound like trash.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I rode in a hurricane HO. It’s plenty fast, very. And very very smooth. The only difference feel wise was initial throttle tip in and sub 1500 rpm power. The hurricane doesn’t have that v8 torque. But once you’re in the 2k rpm range the power is massive.

I think a lot of Ram owners will switch once they see they can blast through 0-60 in 4.5 or 5 seconds.

The issues I thought about were the terrible gas mileage I saw, complexity of twin turbos over time, and longevity with respect to sustained performance of a DI engine given the known byproduct of carbon build up, and how that further lowers fuel efficiency.

Again regarding power, when you drive moderately aggressive the mpg dives hard to single digits. With my V8 it never gets that bad.

I believe given what we know already that the HO option might not be all that reliable, as a truck engine doing frequent pulling. I can see Ram lowering the HP/TQ to achieve that, plus retaining the “regular” fuel rating. You have to go premium fuel on the HO. Me personally one of the reasons I went with the Hemi was the ability to use regular. I have been putting premium in my vehicles the past 20 some years (required) and I got tired of throwing money away.

Want to preface that I specifically went over these points early in the year and that’s why I now have a 2023 Hemi. I know for sure repairs are going to be known, cheap, and engine more reliable and longer running. I want the truck to be near major issue free for (mechanically) for 10 years.

Would I enjoy the speed of the hurricane? Yea.
Is it worth the short term experimentation? No. Definitely not on the wallet (mpg, longevity, etc).

One thing I never mention was sound. It was underwhelming. Even if it sounded like a Supra we’re talking about serious drone and it just never will sound right. I think all the Ford EcoBoost trucks sound lame. Nonetheless sound is not a true consideration for me. If the hurricane had reliability, longevity, and greater mpg I’d get it even though it would sound like trash.

Longevity and reliability have more to do with how it's driven than the type of engine. Some would say the Hemi isn't that good with it's lifter issies. I've owned several turbo vehicles and currently have one as a school car. All were well over 100k miles with no major issues due to having a turbo. Only one gave me problems but that's because I bought it modified and previous owner didn't put it back together properly. If you beat on them every day, sure they won't last as long but that's true of any engine. There isn't any long term data available on the Hurricane, so your comments are pure speculation.

 

[jdawgjm]

Longevity and reliability have more to do with how it's driven than the type of engine. Some would say the Hemi isn't that good with it's lifter issies. I've owned several turbo vehicles and currently have one as a school car. All were well over 100k miles with no major issues due to having a turbo. Only one gave me problems but that's because I bought it modified and previous owner didn't put it back together properly. If you beat on them every day, sure they won't last as long but that's true of any engine. There isn't any long term data available on the Hurricane, so your comments are pure speculation.

Engine load and stresses on the truck should be a lot higher and different if it’s being used - as a truck. Your comparison to a car may not be of the same usage. Take for instance the new Tundra. Its engine is slightly different than what you find on the Lexus. So that it can be made to last longer on the Tundra and stand up to the abuse where the Lexus is a people mover.

My point on reliability still makes sense. You have to earn it, and as of now because there is no data. Most likely it will NOT be reliable as not a single power train in existence has ever been reliable from the get go. It is risky to take a chance when there is not enough data. For a lot of people that takes it out of the running.

The lifter issue is known (as mentioned) and the fix is not that bad imho. Compared to a twin turbo setup which has its own level of complexity - with not yet known issues and fixes. Like I said point me to a flawless powertrain other than a Honda (ha).

Edit: yes yes some people would point out the Tesla EV motors as flawless. Ok yes. But we’re talking bout gas here. Sorry EV bros.

 

[silver billet]

I think a lot of Ram owners will switch once they see they can blast through 0-60 in 4.5 or 5 seconds.

No, not this ram owner. If that's all I wanted I would have gotten an ecoboost years ago.

 

[SD Rebel]

The thing about the 5.7L V8 Hemi is that it's a signature part of the RAM truck, at least in the modern era. I don't know if I want another RAM going forward if I can still get a V8 in a 1500 class truck from another brand (GM), especially with the dealership network that RAM has.

RAM dealership service is already bottom of the barrel, I can't imagine how hard it is to get good dealership service when the majority of mainstream engines in 1500, Dodger/Chargers and Jeeps will eventually be a twin turbo.

 

[wegasque]

No, not this ram owner. If that's all I wanted I would have gotten an ecoboost years ago.

I agree. When I made the decision to start truck shopping, the initial list was made looking at what manufacturers offered V-8s. Not because of power, but because I like V-8s and wanted a V-8. Sure, I've had plenty of 6- and 4-cyl vehicles in my lifetime (and still do), but I prefer 8's. It was important to me then and remains important to me today. I've never bought a vehicle with fuel economy in mind. I'm a firm believer that if you can't afford the fuel and insurance, then you really couldn't afford the vehicle to begin with. I know it's not a popular idea or politically correct in today's world, but fuel economy is just not something I'm worried about. In fact, with today's world heading to more electronics and more ways for manufacturers to control our vehicles, this will likely be my last new vehicle in my lifetime. My wife already told me the next vehicle we get is going to be an old Jeep - she likes CJ-7 and I told her CJ-5. Why? Mainly nostalgia because I had a high school buddy who had one and I have fond memories tooling around it. And yes, it had an 8-cyl also. So, yes, it very much is a personal preference. We all have our own preferences and they are not always alike. Sorry for the long post - just my 2 cents.

 

[Dewey]

No, not this ram owner. If that's all I wanted I would have gotten an ecoboost years ago.

No to mention 4.5 sec 0-60 ain’t gonna happen. That’s TRX territory with 200 less HP.

 

[jdawgjm]

No to mention 4.5 sec 0-60 ain’t gonna happen. That’s TRX territory with 200 less HP.

The grand wagoneer is hitting 4.5-5.0 apparently, and it feels fast when I drove it.

I agree as wel, I don’t care much for the speed. But I think there are some buyers out there that do want that.

 

[Brutal_HO]

<SNIP>
We know these things:
<SNIP>

• The current gen Hemi is 20 decades old, with incremental, but not radical, improvements during this time.

<SNIP>

That's a bit of a stretch. LOL

 

[silver billet]

The grand wagoneer is hitting 4.5-5.0 apparently, and it feels fast when I drove it.

I agree as wel, I don’t care much for the speed. But I think there are some buyers out there that do want that.

It feels fast because you drove the snot out of it. But that's not how I drive, I drive more like a little old lady most times. Completely unhurried, and if I hit 2300 RPMs somebody's probably dying somewhere and needs my help. So that reliable, linear low end grunt is very important to me. I do want more towing power, that's where the turbo will help at 2300+, but I want that grunt from a big N/A v8 not a windup toy.

My next move will probably be upwards to a 2500/250, those Fords look good but that will only be if Ram drops the 6.4 and has nothing to replace it with that competes with the 6.8 at the very least.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Engine load and stresses on the truck should be a lot higher and different if it’s being used - as a truck. Your comparison to a car may not be of the same usage. Take for instance the new Tundra. Its engine is slightly different than what you find on the Lexus. So that it can be made to last longer on the Tundra and stand up to the abuse where the Lexus is a people mover.

My point on reliability still makes sense. You have to earn it, and as of now because there is no data. Most likely it will NOT be reliable as not a single power train in existence has ever been reliable from the get go. It is risky to take a chance when there is not enough data. For a lot of people that takes it out of the running.

The lifter issue is known (as mentioned) and the fix is not that bad imho. Compared to a twin turbo setup which has its own level of complexity - with not yet known issues and fixes. Like I said point me to a flawless powertrain other than a Honda (ha).

Edit: yes yes some people would point out the Tesla EV motors as flawless. Ok yes. But we’re talking bout gas here. Sorry EV bros.

Lifter issue fix isnt that bad? Some have had catastrophic engine failure because of it required a whole new engine. So, I guess if that's "not that bad", then the new Hurricane won't be "that bad"

 

[jimothy]

That's a bit of a stretch. LOL

Oops! I must have been thinking “two decades” and “20 years,” and my brain decided to combine the two.

 

[jdawgjm]

Lifter issue fix isnt that bad? Some have had catastrophic engine failure because of it required a whole new engine. So, I guess if that's "not that bad", then the new Hurricane won't be "that bad"

I’m thinking at this moment if one need a top or bottom end it’s going to cost a lot more than a hurricane.

 

[Darksteel165]

The thing about the 5.7L V8 Hemi is that it's a signature part of the RAM truck, at least in the modern era. I don't know if I want another RAM going forward if I can still get a V8 in a 1500 class truck from another brand (GM), especially with the dealership network that RAM has.

RAM dealership service is already bottom of the barrel, I can't imagine how hard it is to get good dealership service when the majority of mainstream engines in 1500, Dodger/Chargers and Jeeps will eventually be a twin turbo.

Don't get a Chevy if you want a good service experience. GMC around here seems to be "good enough". Kia is the best I delt with and then Honda.

The grand wagoneer is hitting 4.5-5.0 apparently, and it feels fast when I drove it.

I agree as wel, I don’t care much for the speed. But I think there are some buyers out there that do want that.

My Limited just did an 5.9 0-60 the other day. Is that considered slow? I could probably ooze out a bit more in ideal temperature conditions.
A Bighorn or Laramie would be even faster, my payload is around 700lbs as is...

I don't think 1 second 0-60 different is worth going from a v8 to a v6 if all you care about is speed. May as well just get an EV if that's what you want.
The Rivian can do 0-60 in 3 seconds if that's all you care about.

I would suspect to get much better mpg towing with the HEMI vs the Hurricane.

 

[Dewey]

The Hurricane will NEVER duplicate this sound. Music to my ears