Harman Kardon Boomy Bass

[392DCGC]

Regards,
Sonnie

The problem lies in the amplifier tuning of the subwoofer. Frequencies are insanely boosted in the region you mention. You can resolve this yourself, but it's time consuming and will cost a few hundred bucks. What I did to fix the issue: run a PAC AP4-CH41 (plugs in-line behind the 12" screen and sends a flat RCA low-level signal output) to a Kicker CX800.1 amplifier (tucked behind the rear seat). Cut the factory subwoofer wire, and spliced wiring to the Kicker amp while keeping the factory connector/plug in-tact. Fixes the ridiculous boomy bass that never should have been there to begin with. My truck is a 2020 Limited, built March 2020. I had 2019s that were the same way. How this passed audio engineering/QA blows my mind. It's complete crap.

 

[Sonnie]

lol... well I about to do close to what you are suggesting. I decided to try out the new JL Audio Stealthbox, with a VX1000/Vi amp, an the LoC-22. A little more expensive, but it will be fun.

I actually still have a PAC AmpPro CH41 from my previous system, but I decided I would use the sub leads with the LoC this time around... keep everything in the back. The LoC takes that speaker level input and flattens it out to the amp, similar to what the AmpPro does, but I won't have to pull my radio out and run a cable from front to back, although I'll have to run the amp from the batter to the back... not a big deal.

UPDATE ON THE HK SYSTEM... I was actually able to get the sub sounding pretty good, and it is amazing how much better the overall system sounds with the sub sounding better, and being able to pump some mid-bass back into the door speakers. I treated the rear doors, the majority of the back wall, back corners, part of the back floor, and the sub box with dampening material, but I think what made the most difference was stuffing as much polyfil in the sub box as I could get in there. Even withOUT the seats in the truck I was able to crank the bass EQ slider up to +3 to +4 without boominess. I am finally somewhat impressed with how good it sounded today. It's not going to win any SQ contests, but it might actually be worth the price tag now, although we shouldn't have to do all of this to get it to sound respectable. The more I listened to a variety of music, the more impressed I because with how good it was sounding. The imaging and sound stage is very acceptable. There's not much depth acuity in the front stage, but I wouldn't expect it without some more robust processing. I think I can make it sound even better by treating the front doors, and I may replace the dash speakers with the HAT Legatia L3SE speakers I have... and if they sound good, I'll need to get another one for the center.

At any rate... things are sounding much more positive now.

 

[Sonnie]

Got the front doors treated with dampening material on the outer skin, and 1/2" think closed cell foam between the door panel and door... it's very tight. I got all the back finished (this truck is crazy quiet). I am now officially impressed by this system outside of the subwoofer. The mid-bass is killer good with all the doors treated and everything tight in the truck. It is not far from not needing a sub, but of course that would be criminal for sure.

 

[jeffauclair]

Got the front doors treated with dampening material on the outer skin, and 1/2" think closed cell foam between the door panel and door... it's very tight. I got all the back finished (this truck is crazy quiet). I am now officially impressed by this system outside of the subwoofer. The mid-bass is killer good with all the doors treated and everything tight in the truck. It is not far from not needing a sub, but of course that would be criminal for sure.

you had to removed rear seat or you were able to do the back cab with only the seat reclined?

 

[Limited_one]

man, y'all would love my truck, I feel like it has 20% of the bass that my '17 had with the alpine

 

[Sonnie]

you had to removed rear seat or you were able to do the back cab with only the seat reclined?

You could do the back wall without removing the seat, but I also removed the sub, which needs to be dampened on the back and stuffed if you plan to use it. And I treated the seatbelt cavities on each side, which required removing the seats to get to it. It's not difficult to remove the seats with an impact wrench, and it makes it a lot easier, and you can also take care of the floor back there. My truck is super quiet (and I mean as quiet as any ride I have EVER been in) even right now withOUT the rear seats installed. That includes building a filtering system for the rear vents to keep them quiet.

 

[jeffauclair]

You could do the back wall without removing the seat, but I also removed the sub, which needs to be dampened on the back and stuffed if you plan to use it. And I treated the seatbelt cavities on each side, which required removing the seats to get to it. It's not difficult to remove the seats with an impact wrench, and it makes it a lot easier, and you can also take care of the floor back there. My truck is super quiet (and I mean as quiet as any ride I have EVER been in) even right now withOUT the rear seats installed. That includes building a filtering system for the rear vents to keep them quiet.

do you have any pictures of your filtering system? you seem to know where you going and I am planning to apply the same you did on mine

 

[392DCGC]

Got the front doors treated with dampening material on the outer skin, and 1/2" think closed cell foam between the door panel and door... it's very tight. I got all the back finished (this truck is crazy quiet). I am now officially impressed by this system outside of the subwoofer. The mid-bass is killer good with all the doors treated and everything tight in the truck. It is not far from not needing a sub, but of course that would be criminal for sure.

Interested in hearing your thoughts on how those Legatia speakers pair with the rest of the HK system, if they even fit. I’m using Infinity 3032s in the dash, and couldn’t really find anything better that I knew would fit or match loudness levels of the rest of the system. If you get them to fit and think they are worth it, I might pick up some to try.

I’m surprised you think the factory HK 6x9s are good. To me, they look cheap as can be and don’t put out any volume (my bass is +5). I swapped with Infinity 6x9s in my 2019 truck, but those were a little too loud so I had to turn the bass EQ down, which consequently affected the mids a bit too much for my liking, so I’ve just left the 6x9s alone in my new truck. Haven’t bothered with Dynamat again yet either - wasn’t sure if it was really worth it or made a significant difference. There’s some kind of factory deadening material on the outer door skin already (albeit doesn’t cover the entire skin). Didn’t think any deadened was needed behind the door panels - truck is already insanely quiet.

 

[Sonnie]

do you have any pictures of your filtering system? you seem to know where you going and I am planning to apply the same you did on mine

I did not take any, but I will. I built it out of 1/4" premium plywood, glued it together to have about 1.5" clearance above the vent. Then I installed channeled closed cell foam with filtered open cell foam in front of the closed cell. I wanted to allow it to breath, but keep the dust and noise from coming in. I also applied foil backed 1/2" closed cell foam to the back of the rear panel.

Interested in hearing your thoughts on how those Legatia speakers pair with the rest of the HK system, if they even fit. I’m using Infinity 3032s in the dash, and couldn’t really find anything better that I knew would fit or match loudness levels of the rest of the system. If you get them to fit and think they are worth it, I might pick up some to try.

I’m surprised you think the factory HK 6x9s are good. To me, they look cheap as can be and don’t put out any volume (my bass is +5). I swapped with Infinity 6x9s in my 2019 truck, but those were a little too loud so I had to turn the bass EQ down, which consequently affected the mids a bit too much for my liking, so I’ve just left the 6x9s alone in my new truck. Haven’t bothered with Dynamat again yet either - wasn’t sure if it was really worth it or made a significant difference. There’s some kind of factory deadening material on the outer door skin already (albeit doesn’t cover the entire skin). Didn’t think any deadened was needed behind the door panels - truck is already insanely quiet.

I installed the Legatias, but took them back out... they did not sound as good as the factory to me.

The factory system just did not sound good to me initially. Unplugging the sub helped, but there was too much vibration and unsealed areas that were effecting the overall sound. After treating all the doors, sealing up the holes around all three dash speakers, and keeping the sub out, it sounds seriously good now. This is on music I have on my USB thumb drive... we are talking a lot of Yello, Spyro Gyra, Pink Floyd, Flim & the BB's... and a lot more. SiriusXM is still not that good, although okay at lower volume. On my USB music, I can set the bass control at +7 and turn it up to 30 without any distortion. I have it just slightly faded to the front. The 6x9's have seriously good mid-bass and you almost sounds good enough (almost) that you don't need a sub. Of course I want subs for that extra tactile feel on the lowest octaves... and the ability to tune the response with the DSP.

But bottom line... I would NOT spend the money on the Legatia speakers with the factory amp. If you were going to install a completely new system with a full blown DSP like the miniDSP with Dirac Live and could fully tune the entire system, then the Legatia L3SE would absolutely shine. This is what I had in my 2019.

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/2019-ram-1500-laramie-crew-cab-system-build-project.5146/ is the install... and here is the DSP setup.... https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/tuning-with-the-minidsp-c-dsp-8x12-dl-and-rew.5370/#post-52156

 

[ADJS]

When I get a chance to ill pop a microphone in the cab and SHOW you what the system is doing. I won't be able to get to it until mid July tho. I cant stand it when people offer solutions and fixes without even knowing exactly what's going on.

 

[Sonnie]

We've already seen REW measurements of it. In this case the boomy bass is what's going on, and there are only a few options to fixing it. If you can't get it fixed at the dealership with a software update like some have been able to do, experimenting with stuffing the sub enclosure, dampening the enclosure, dampening and treating the vehicle, and/or removing the sub in favor of a different unit are pretty much the only options.

@jeffauclair

Here you can see the rear vent boxes I fabricated, and some of the dampening material. The green foam is the open cell filter, similar to what you would use on an air filter for a lawn mower, etc. The black foam is closed cell foam used in acoustic treatment.

 

[Cravenfan]

I'm super-confused on the "I replaced my HK system with (insert brand here) posts...my 17 speaker HK is the best sounding audio I've ever heard in a truck. Why don't you just turn your EQ bass down? When I'm in my truck, I crank the bass up on the EQ. When I have passengers in the back, I have to adjust it a bit.

 

[STR]

I'm super-confused on the "I replaced my HK system with (insert brand here) posts...my 17 speaker HK is the best sounding audio I've ever heard in a truck. Why don't you just turn your EQ bass down? When I'm in my truck, I crank the bass up on the EQ. When I have passengers in the back, I have to adjust it a bit.

... technically, it’s 19 speakers, and I agree that it sounds great

 

[Sonnie]

Not sure what anyone would be confused... there is nothing confusing about it. People have different hearing. People have different opinions as to what we believe sounds good. If we don't like it, we don't like it, and we change it up until we do like it. If you like it, then these threads are probably not for you.

As far as "Why don't you just turn your EQ bass down?".... that has been addressed in many threads, including this one. If it was the final solution, we would not continue to discuss it.

We have had numerous speaker evaluations where 4-6 of us will gather up in a central location to test and evaluate speakers over a period of several days (up to a week). Not everyone likes the same speakers. In some cases we all like the sound of a particular speaker, in other cases we don't. We like what we like, buy what we want, not because of what someone else necessarily likes, but because of what we like.

 

[St Pete Ron]

I just got a 2020 Laramie 3 days ago, the HK system in my opinion is nowhere as nice as my bighorn system was. I put infinities in the doors and kickers in the dash with 4ohm 10watt resistors and that sounded great on the bighorn. The base on this new truck is set at +4 and there is very little base, I had to turn down the mids to -1 and the treble to -2. Must be something wrong with mine.

 

[STR]

^^^ Very little bass at +4, then there is something definitely wrong w/your system. I have mine set at 0/flat, and it thumps... When playing around with the settings I moved it to +3, and it’s way too much bass... and I like bass!

 

[Sonnie]

I just got a 2020 Laramie 3 days ago, the HK system in my opinion is nowhere as nice as my bighorn system was. I put infinities in the doors and kickers in the dash with 4ohm 10watt resistors and that sounded great on the bighorn. The base on this new truck is set at +4 and there is very little base, I had to turn down the mids to -1 and the treble to -2. Must be something wrong with mine.

Sounds like they may have the boomy bass fixed in your truck... perhaps over-compensated for it in some way. Several of us have done various things to our trucks, treatments, speaker swaps, etc, to get better sound. I'm liking mine right now, although it won't win any SQ competitions.

 

[St Pete Ron]

Sounds like they may have the boomy bass fixed in your truck... perhaps over-compensated for it in some way. Several of us have done various things to our trucks, treatments, speaker swaps, etc, to get better sound. I'm liking mine right now, although it won't win any SQ competitions.

Im not worried about winning any contest, I was stating that my other truck sounded 100% better on the sound is all. If this is a 900 watt system well i would be happier with my Milwaukee job site radio in the truck. I have heard a different truck and it sounded great.

 

[mkmenon29]

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here... so to speak. I've read quite a bit about this issue, which seems to be a very serious issue for those who are fairly well familiar with quality sound systems in vehicles. I traded in a 2019 with the Alpine system for the 2020 with the HK system. It's insane how much better the Alpine system is, particularly in the bass department. I don't get it. I think about what Harman did with the JBL MS-8 unit a few years back... unbelievable how well designed it was for vehicle use, and they had a couple of guys that really knew what they were doing as far as improving on factory systems. Where were those guys when they designed this system.

I know some have packed the sub box full of polyfil to increase the box volume, which should help with the response... and have also used moving blankets to absorb some of the boomy 80-100Hz frequencies, but we shouldn't have to do this (I haven't done it yet). I have my bass EQ control at -9, and it's still questionable... even with Exact Audio extracted CD onto a USB thumb drive that sounded great with the Alpine system and rivaled some excellent sound quality in my upgraded systems over the years. Sure, the thumb drive is better with the HK, but having to reduce the bass to -9 also effects the mid-bass in the doors... it really degrades the overall sound, and it makes this system more or less a bona fide ripoff to many RAM owners who paid extra money for it.

I've read a few were going to try to add a capacitor to the sub to maybe cut out the frequencies above 50-60Hz, which should help. However, if it is like the sub that was in my 2019, it's a triple voice coil driver, with dual voice coils for the bass response, and a single voice coil for the ANC. If anyone has had success doing this, I'd really like to know if you were able to do it and not effect the ANC. I had to unplug the sub in my 2019 when I was using the aftermarket system, and I was not crazy about the exhaust noise, farts, etc that I had to put up with... the sub portion of the ANC really tamed that noise well.

I filed an official complaint with customer care, but we need others to do the same. They did tell me there were no updates available for my vehicle.

Regards,
Sonnie

I have a alpine in mine and i absolutely love it. You are right, the HK in the ram is really bad in terms of beats but, the vocals are really good. I have H/K in my Mercedes with Logic 7 so when I want to enjoy a nice drive with soft music. I take that instead haha. Good luck man!

 

[Sonnie]

Thanks... it has taken a good bit of work to get it sounding good, but we are definitely getting there... WITHOUT the factory sub!