H/K audio upgrade - VAST Improvment

[Ellisstrong]

So I'm not really getting the improvement with the Infinity speakers that I was expecting based on all the positive feedback. I installed one in the front left, compared it to the factory front right, quickly moving the balance back and forth. Clearly I lose the majority of the highs going with the Infinity. The factory speakers are not quite as deep, and they are a bit too bright. The Infinity speakers are well rounded in the mid-bass, although the dash are probably crossed over at 350Hz or higher, but I can still tell when moving the balance back and forth, they have slightly more mid-bass than the factory speaker, yet they roll off quite a bit on the highs. I actually thought maybe one of the tweeters was not working initially. I went ahead and install the right side, then again moved the balance back and forth, and I could tell the factory center was considerably louder with more highs as I move thru it. Then I finally replaced the center. I had to bump the EQ level up on the high from 0 to +7 and the mid from 0 to +3 to get some top end back up front. Now I think the upper doors may be too much and I'll probably have to replace those as well. These factory speakers must be seriously sensitive. The Infinity speakers are 91dB 3 ohm... the factory measure 4 ohm and are at least 6dB louder, so they have to be in the 96-97dB sensitivity range (totally guessing to make a point).

I am very curious to hear the Faital Pro speakers and see if perhaps they might have a little more volume to them than the Infinity speakers. This almost makes me want to put the factory speakers back in, although when I turn all the bass down and fade all the way to the front, comparing the factory to the Infinity, at a volume level of 30, the factory began to distort... while the Infinity never distorted, which is likely because it is not as loud either. If you want the highs tamed, this is no doubt the way to do it.

I don't know... not sold that the Infinity speakers are an upgrade in my truck... maybe a lateral move with some give and take. What I do know is the factory doors have some serious bass/mid-bass that can play amazingly loud and clean.

The Faitals should be here tomorrow and I'll do another comparison this weekend.

Interesting and good to know. I feel like my infinity door 6x9’s have a great deal more bass than my factory ones did

 

[Sonnie]

If I get anymore bass in my truck, I'll be bass heavy for sure. After installing the Infinity speakers, the bass had to come down... it was grossly out of balance.

 

[Ellisstrong]

If I get anymore bass in my truck, I'll be bass heavy for sure. After installing the Infinity speakers, the bass had to come down... it was grossly out of balance.

I have my bass on negative 4 and still have plenty of bass coming out of them

 

[Sonnie]

That may be where mine needs to be... I haven't really tried to completely balance it out yet. Waiting to get the Stealthbox in and then I'll figure it all out.

 

[patriot_tech]

I'll be interested to see your thoughts on the faital's. I certainly hope you are happier with those. I'd feel bad if you bought based on my info and then were not happy. In my truck, the faital's (full range) sound smoother, louder, and cleaner than the factory speakers by far - and there's no tweeter. I did notice a little harshness at first when loud, but after some break in time they have smoothed out.

There is no way the factory speakers are 97- 98 db sensitive.

 

[Sonnie]

Oh don't worry about that... I also have some Hertz on order. I'm going to try several speakers. It's fun, and all of these are returnable, although in some cases it might cost me shipping or a small restocking fee.

Something is going on different. If we have a speaker that measures 4.1 ohm (factory) and one that measures 2.7 ohm (Infinity 3032), and the 4.1 ohm speaker plays louder on the same amp at the same volume setting, then the only reasonable explanation is sensitivity. The Infinity are 91dB... so the factory speakers will have to be higher than those.

It may have something to do with the resistor on the Infinity speaker. It is on positive side, while the factory speaker is on the negative side, unless for some reason they wired the factory speakers with black as positive and red as negative. I have not tested them, but I will.

It's really strange that there is that much volume difference, that is for sure.

 

[Sonnie]

I'll be interested to see your thoughts on the faital's. I certainly hope you are happier with those. I'd feel bad if you bought based on my info and then were not happy. In my truck, the faital's (full range) sound smoother, louder, and cleaner than the factory speakers by far - and there's no tweeter. I did notice a little harshness at first when loud, but after some break in time they have smoothed out.

Here are my thoughts on the FaitalPRO speakers... did a good bit of testing this morning.

2020 RAM Laramie 4WD Audio System Build w/ 12" Display and JL Audio Stealthbox

I posted this thread in our audio forum and will copy it here, being it is related to my RAM truck. I keep saying that one day I am going to grow out of my car audio hobby obsession. Perhaps that will be the day you guys will be talking about me in the past tense, as I just can't shake it...

5thgenrams.com

 

[KevBo]

Interesting thread. Ive got the rebel with alpine system...way too bass heavy and not enough clarity. Its got great thump. I was thinking about the infinity refrence as an upgrade, but maybe the faital speakers are the way to go? Anyone upgraded the alpine system? What did you go with?

 

[392DCGC]

I'll be interested to see your thoughts on the faital's. I certainly hope you are happier with those. I'd feel bad if you bought based on my info and then were not happy. In my truck, the faital's (full range) sound smoother, louder, and cleaner than the factory speakers by far - and there's no tweeter. I did notice a little harshness at first when loud, but after some break in time they have smoothed out.

There is no way the factory speakers are 97- 98 db sensitive.

Here are my thoughts on the FaitalPRO speakers... did a good bit of testing this morning.

2020 RAM Laramie 4WD Audio System Build w/ 12" Display and JL Audio Stealthbox

I posted this thread in our audio forum and will copy it here, being it is related to my RAM truck. I keep saying that one day I am going to grow out of my car audio hobby obsession. Perhaps that will be the day you guys will be talking about me in the past tense, as I just can't shake it...

5thgenrams.com

Either of you guys have photos of how to modify the Faital speaker mounts to fit in the dash? Mine should be here tomorrow - funny enough, Parts Express is only 30 minutes from me. If I weren’t working tonight I would’ve went and got them in person. But I never would’ve guessed a smaller and tweeter-lacking speaker could be better, but here’s to hoping I’m impressed (3” Faital vs 3.5” Infinity).

 

[Sonnie]

I'll take a photo a little later and post it. I basically just twisted it about 1/4" left to make the tabs line up over the plastic and self-tapped a small screw into the plastic. I had to trim one of the tabs off because it was directly over one of the holes for the grill retaining clip.

My comparison was direct... moving the balance back and forth on the songs I listened to, and there was no mistaking what I heard, but people hear in different ways. Of course the SPL numbers show the difference... some people may not notice 3-4dB as much as I did.

 

[patriot_tech]

Either of you guys have photos of how to modify the Faital speaker mounts to fit in the dash? Mine should be here tomorrow - funny enough, Parts Express is only 30 minutes from me. If I weren’t working tonight I would’ve went and got them in person. But I never would’ve guessed a smaller and tweeter-lacking speaker could be better, but here’s to hoping I’m impressed (3” Faital vs 3.5” Infinity).

I did not take pics, but essentially I trimmed one tab with tin snips. Figure out which one by test fitting the speaker so the speaker wire connection tab fits best. The mounting tabs of the metal frame are stamped so they have a vertical portion, so I used a hammer on a vise to flatten them out. Finally. I used tin snips to cut out the end of the mounting tab. It will look like a spade connector / fork when done. This will give you enough space to reuse existing holes and enough tab so they are secure. I also used some foam to make a fast ring type of gasket to funnel all sound into cabin. If you have any mechanical aptitude you'll be fine with it.

I'm sure you'll be happy with them. Guess I should to ask faitalPRO for commissions lol.

 

[lowaired]

hello. , I have a 19 limited non e tourqe and want to upgrade as well let me know how the whole system turns out . Very interested !!

QUOTE="patriot_tech, post: 301889, member: 27358"]
I did not take pics, but essentially I trimmed one tab with tin snips. Figure out which one by test fitting the speaker so the speaker wire connection tab fits best. The mounting tabs of the metal frame are stamped so they have a vertical portion, so I used a hammer on a vise to flatten them out. Finally. I used tin snips to cut out the end of the mounting tab. It will look like a spade connector / fork when done. This will give you enough space to reuse existing holes and enough tab so they are secure. I also used some foam to make a fast ring type of gasket to funnel all sound into cabin. If you have any mechanical aptitude you'll be fine with it.

I'm sure you'll be happy with them. Guess I should to ask faitalPRO for commissions lol.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Sonnie]

Patriots idea sounds easy enough if you don't want to have to self tap new screws into the plastic, which is what I did below. I used my Dremel tool to cut off the one tab, but tin snips would work as well.

 

[392DCGC]

Photos of my tin snip method since everywhere was sold out of rotary tools. At the end I felt maybe it’s the easiest because it only took a few seconds per speaker. Didn’t need to hammer down the mounting tabs, snips cut right through (rated for 18 GA cold rolled steel). I did use pliers on the “spade” tabs after the fact to flatten them out a bit. The center dash doesn’t need an entire tab snipped, only the 2 tabs opened up used for screws. I didn’t want to try self tapping new screws because it looked difficult/easy to drop one into the dash considering the work space is pretty limited by the windshield.

 

[Diamondback]

I just got done doing some upgrades to my audio system and figured I'd throw the info out there in case there was interest.

See my post where my sound quality went up after disabling that factory Sub. Those 6x9s are good. The highs do need replaced, though.

 

[Diamondback]

I read in one forum on this board that lining the factory sub with a polyfill or something like that helped with the bass. Would you also recommend as an inexpensive mod?

I pulled mine and lined the outside with Dynomat material.

 

[INVISBLE]

Oh don't worry about that... I also have some Hertz on order. I'm going to try several speakers. It's fun, and all of these are returnable, although in some cases it might cost me shipping or a small restocking fee.

Something is going on different. If we have a speaker that measures 4.1 ohm (factory) and one that measures 2.7 ohm (Infinity 3032), and the 4.1 ohm speaker plays louder on the same amp at the same volume setting, then the only reasonable explanation is sensitivity. The Infinity are 91dB... so the factory speakers will have to be higher than those.

It may have something to do with the resistor on the Infinity speaker. It is on positive side, while the factory speaker is on the negative side, unless for some reason they wired the factory speakers with black as positive and red as negative. I have not tested them, but I will.

It's really strange that there is that much volume difference, that is for sure.

I noticed that you focused on the ohms but failed to mention the actual wattage rating differences between the OEM and all the other speakers. Factory speakers are generally rated for far less watts than aftermarket ones. I dont know what our H&K speakers are rated at but as an example most OEM speakers will be rated from 8-25 watts typically. As an installer I have had literally hundreds of customers bring me new speakers to install using their original radio, only to be disappointed but the reduced volume. Yes the sound quality improves some but without the additional power you just can not make it work out right this way. The smart way is to replace the radio first since most aftermarket radios have a higher wattage than the OEM and doing so creates headroom while still using the OEM speakers. This makes them louder, albeit can lead to over driving them too. But usually that was the effect the customer was really looking for.
So in my rambling the sound difference could be related to the variances between the different watt ratings of the speakers. And of course although speakers of different manufacturers might even have a rating that's the same as another, this isnt always truly accurate.

 

[Sonnie]

The wattage isn't really what determines the volume, the wattage is in the amp, and it's set in a factory system. Most any of the aftermarket speakers will handle the factory amp wattage... thus how much wattage the speakers will handle will have little effect on the volume. The volume is determined by the sensitivity and the resistance of the speaker, which is why all the speakers we have been testing are higher in sensitivity and of the correct resistance so that we don't over-drive the amp. We've no issues improving sound quality with the factory system by swapping out speakers.

The factory system does not need more power to play loud... it's plenty loud in these trucks. Now... if you grab a speaker with low sensitivity, such as the JL Audio that I tested, this is a speaker that needs more power to sound it's best, and to produce the same SPL as the factory speakers. The JL is not designed for lower power like the Infinity, FaitalPRO, Hertz, Kicker and maybe a few others that are used frequently in factory replacement speaker systems. Most of us don't want to have to change out our headunit, as we like the factory unit, and we like the factory look. Recommending replacing the headunit is a serious no go for most of us, not to even get into the fact hardly anyone makes anything that would not require some very serious custom work to make it fit and look halfway respectable. Then you have a WHOLE lot more going on with the factory headunits than a radio... you have vehicle settings involved as well... you just can't replace the headunits in these new vehicles. Factory headunit to aftermarket amp... yes... that works and many of us do that... which is completely different.

What happens in some cases by those that don't do any research, they think that just because a speaker will handle more power, it will be louder, which again, has very little influence on how loud the system will play. However, I don't know any anyone in this forum that isn't doing their homework. These guys are smart and they are researching what is needed. They want a higher sensitivity speaker and the correct resistance (ohms) to match the factory system... and it's been working for us all very well.

 

[JustCallMeD]

Great thread all, I've noticed quite some large gaps coming out of this HK system as well. The timing is noticeably off on most speakers, huge on the factory sub (Sitting in the driver seat anyway), balance is way forward and emphasized on the front speakers, and the roll off of bass at high volume, oh the roll off!! It's just brutal, I kind of miss my old 2015 alpine... Question, has anyone tried to replace just the amp with something else? I think they're called DSP to allow for configuration of all parameters and maybe get more power as well? Does such a unit exist? I'd like to try adjusting everything before replacing speakers, though I did notice the HK speakers need a super long break in period as well...

 

[Sonnie]

You can easily use a PAC AmpPRO to get signal from the headunit and add an aftermarket amp that takes the place of the factory amp. Bunches of folks have done this. I've done it on my last two RAM trucks. However, if I'm going to the trouble of adding an amp, I'm going to upgrade the speakers. These speakers are fine with the factory amp, provided you treat the doors properly and the rear wall, then disconnect the sub, or treat it like many others have with stuffing and dampening material. The door speakers don't need more power to sound good, they need the truck treated for resonant vibrations. The dash speakers... a different story... they can be improved on by replacement... but adding more power to the dash speakers is just going to make them worse, if anything, unless you use a DSP with the amp to tune them, then I still would be spending the money on an amp and DSP without replacing the speakers. At least not in my fully subjective opinion.