Fifth wheel towing...

[silver billet]

Referring to me as that "Damn guy" and in third person is very disrespectful... and if you are going to be disrespectful to members, you don't need to be a moderator... or I don't need to be a site supporter.

I came here to ask a question (or two) and seek assistance. Please excuse me for mistaking this as the proper place to do so. Furthermore, you are insinuating that I've stated a lot more than I have. You certainly have a creative imagination.

To confirm... I never said I "wanted" to tow a fifth wheel. I have been researching because I do care. If I didn't care, or didn't think the numbers mattered, I would have no reason to come here and have someone attempt to humiliate me for lack of knowing and attempting to try to learn more. It's as if everyone should just know everything and not even have to ask.

To further confirm... if you had bothered to read carefully (there is indication you at least read part of it)... we were originally looking at travel trailers and our friend got us side-tracked and wanted us to look at a fifth-wheel. I told him I did not think my truck could handle it, but he insisted it could, as did the dealer. HOWEVER, because "I did not know" AND "I do care and want to know"... I decided it would be best to research it and find out what my truck is capable of towing and what would be safe for us, hence my coming here and seeking help and advice.

Several of you guys have been helpful, and I appreciate your assistance.

I'm sure that was very much sarcasm directed at Trooper, who, see's no issue going 500 to 1000 pounds over his payload towing a 5th wheel.

We've all had this discussion multiple times now, Trooper is not a man who will be swayed by facts.

You are doing the right thing, looking at the limits of your truck and finding a trailer that will fit those limits.

 

[blakei]

@devildodge I like what you have to say, it’s well thought out. Hope you don’t disappear!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rickyrocket]

You have to have thick skin on the internet, remember there is no stupid question...just stupid answers, the manufactures of 5th wheels don't have a problem misleading people into thinking it can be done, and it can ,but not always legally.

 

[Drewster]

Back on the topic of 5th wheels, most of the modern ones simply assume you're pulling with a dually.

Some of the old, or newer niche *tiny* 5th wheels kinda sorta work (like the Escape 5.0), but you're sacrificing a lot in terms of space (a 25ft bumper pull could be had just as easily), and you have to modify the truck quite a bit to pull it (new hitch, new wiring, etc.).

The truck is much more equipped to handle a bumper pull, and most bumper pull trailers assume you're using a basic truck or SUV. This is one of the first links that came up in google, but there are *loads* of travel trailers in/ under the 10k GVWR range https://www.jayco.com/tools/easytow/

Essentially, if you got the truck to pull a big 'ol 5th wheel for the family... you need a new truck. If you just want a camper, just get a bumper pull.

 

[Sonnie]

We are good... he reached out to me privately and explained. As long as I know he was not pointing directly at me, I am fine.

I have thick skin, but I still don't want to be disrespected, if that is what is intended, which it now does not appear to be. I own a forum with about this many members, although not quite the traffic... and have owned a very large forum for 8+ years that I sold off, so I'm familiar with the masses.

There are no doubt guys out there that don't care about the numbers... my friend being one of them. He made the statement last night while eating... "I'm trying to tell you from someone who has experience..." and went on to try to convince me I'd be better off pulling a fifth-wheel vs a travel trailer. Well... with his truck that might be so, as he has a 3500 dually, so yeah, maybe a fifth-wheel is better for him. However, with my truck, it's apparent that I'd be better off with a lighter travel trailer, since I'm not willing to trade at this point. He thinks I should ignore the numbers, which of course I won't do.

 

[devildodge]

@Sonnie

You are the guy I like to help. You take the information and have given yourself an informed decision.

As I stated in the one post we do have members towing a 5th wheel. @Davidmurphy02 is one of them. Not sure if he is still active but he has a specific built truck and a specific built 5th wheel that he went to the factory to pick up.

Search his name and you can see his findings.

We also have some guys who are successfully towing large trailers.

Unfortunately I guess, I try to explain a properly setup rig under the capacity thresholds. And that gives me alot of aggravation when people say you can load over capacity and just tow it already.

My adage is ...a 1500 can tow heavy but not while hauling. I own a 2500 because I haul more often than I tow and I haul while towing.

And even the towing charts say max payload and max tow are mutually exclusive.

Good luck with your search. I hope you find a comfortable travel trailer for your trips and the size for a comfortable tow on the trips.

 

[Drewster]

We are good... he reached out to me privately and explained. As long as I know he was not pointing directly at me, I am fine.

I have thick skin, but I still don't want to be disrespected, if that is what is intended, which it now does not appear to be. I own a forum with about this many members, although not quite the traffic... and have owned a very large forum for 8+ years that I sold off, so I'm familiar with the masses.

There are no doubt guys out there that don't care about the numbers... my friend being one of them. He made the statement last night while eating... "I'm trying to tell you from someone who has experience..." and went on to try to convince me I'd be better off pulling a fifth-wheel vs a travel trailer. Well... with his truck that might be so, as he has a 3500 dually, so yeah, maybe a fifth-wheel is better for him. However, with my truck, it's apparent that I'd be better off with a lighter travel trailer, since I'm not willing to trade at this point. He thinks I should ignore the numbers, which of course I won't do.

He is correct in that 5th wheels tow better - with the pin weight right over the axle, it's physically less likely to sway. Additionally, a 30 ft 5th wheel is waaaay shorter in total length because about 5ft of that is over the bed.

The catch is that they're putting ~20% of their weight on the tow vehicle to make that happen, rather than a bumper pull's ~10%. In addition, you have to worry about how close the trailer is to the cab of the truck. F150's can handle that ~2,000lb of weight in the bed because they're aluminum, but most Ram's just don't leave you with much wiggle room, unfortunately. The more modern 5th wheels with ceiling fans and rock climbing walls pretty much just assume you're using a dually. Even the smaller "half ton towable" 5th wheels are *really* pushing it in terms of payload.

Personally, if you love your truck and just want a camper - get a reasonable bumper pull. You can hitch it right up, the truck automatically detects it, and you can just go camping. Try to stay under 30 ft, leave some wiggle room in terms of weight, and you'll be in very good company.

 

[Sonnie]

Yep... we are now looking at TT's with a hitch weight of around 5-600lbs and a dry weight of around 5,000... and no more than about a 25-26ft if possible. There probably isn't near as much to choose from, and keeping my wife out of those fancy models is NOT easy. "Oh honey, but I like this one!" 35ft and 10,000lbs. I have to reel her back in to reality.

 

[devildodge]

Another reason to stay int he 26 foot range is the actual campsites.

This year camping is always booked.

Reserve america allows you to reserve 11 months in advance. Take a look...they are already full in alot of places.

A 26 foot camper will fit in 90% of spots. The other 10% would be for pop ups.

A 30 foot camper ...it is gonna be very hard to find a spot on popular weekends.

We have a 26 foot and it is perfect for the places we go. Some of the campgrounds we have been to you couldn't even drive a 30 footer through them let alone park it.

Coleman campers seem to have very low unlaiden weight and some pretty nice interiors. I have seen quite a few of the new trailers this year were Coleman.

Of course...camper brands are like truck brands. Everyone has their favorite.

 

[Drewster]

Yep... we are now looking at TT's with a hitch weight of around 5-600lbs and a dry weight of around 5,000... and no more than about a 25-26ft if possible. There probably isn't near as much to choose from, and keeping my wife out of those fancy models is NOT easy. "Oh honey, but I like this one!" 35ft and 10,000lbs. I have to reel her back in to reality.

I hear you. I've wanted a Toy Hauler for my track car for a long time, and there are very few that can haul a car while still being in the sub-10,000lb ballpark (i.e. really two brands).

Every month it's "but look at this 35ft trailer with a huge living room but it has a 6 foot garage and is 3 feet off the ground"

 

[Sonnie]

I've heard about campsites being restricted on size, and that is definitely something to consider and keep in mind.

Camping seems to have really taken off this year... maybe COVID has boosted it with people trying to get out and not stay cooped up inside all the time.

I was reading reviews of one brand and they were pitiful for the most part. Then I started reading reviews of other brands... well they are all pitiful. It seems as if it's a crapshoot if you get a good one. I'm hearing it's best to buy close to home from a reputable dealer because we'll likely need service the first few months no matter what we buy.

We looked at one fifth wheel (3 levels) that we could easily live in.... very nice... $100K. I'm all in when we retire... seems like the way to go... or as someone else mentioned, go with a motor home and pull a vehicle with you.

 

[silver billet]

I've heard about campsites being restricted on size, and that is definitely something to consider and keep in mind.

Camping seems to have really taken off this year... maybe COVID has boosted it with people trying to get out and not stay cooped up inside all the time.

I was reading reviews of one brand and they were pitiful for the most part. Then I started reading reviews of other brands... well they are all pitiful. It seems as if it's a crapshoot if you get a good one. I'm hearing it's best to buy close to home from a reputable dealer because we'll likely need service the first few months no matter what we buy.

We looked at one fifth wheel (3 levels) that we could easily live in.... very nice... $100K. I'm all in when we retire... seems like the way to go... or as someone else mentioned, go with a motor home and pull a vehicle with you.

Camping took off here (in Canada) too. Booked solid everywhere and dealers made a killing selling trailers. Definitely COVID releated.

There is great youtube channel, "keep your daydream" that I follow. They are full time RV'ers and have a lot of good information to share. I really like their attitude, "start now with what you have", and also "plan for the dips". Fixing a trailer is just "part of the fun"!

 

[Trooper4]

We are good... he reached out to me privately and explained. As long as I know he was not pointing directly at me, I am fine.

I have thick skin, but I still don't want to be disrespected, if that is what is intended, which it now does not appear to be. I own a forum with about this many members, although not quite the traffic... and have owned a very large forum for 8+ years that I sold off, so I'm familiar with the masses.

There are no doubt guys out there that don't care about the numbers... my friend being one of them. He made the statement last night while eating... "I'm trying to tell you from someone who has experience..." and went on to try to convince me I'd be better off pulling a fifth-wheel vs a travel trailer. Well... with his truck that might be so, as he has a 3500 dually, so yeah, maybe a fifth-wheel is better for him. However, with my truck, it's apparent that I'd be better off with a lighter travel trailer, since I'm not willing to trade at this point. He thinks I should ignore the numbers, which of course I won't do.

Don't let it bother you. He was disrespecting me

 

[INVISBLE]

Referring to me as that "Damn guy" and in third person is very disrespectful... and if you are going to be disrespectful to members, you don't need to be a moderator... or I don't need to be a site supporter.

I came here to ask a question (or two) and seek assistance. Please excuse me for mistaking this as the proper place to do so. Furthermore, you are insinuating that I've stated a lot more than I have. You certainly have a creative imagination.

To confirm... I never said I "wanted" to tow a fifth wheel. I have been researching because I do care. If I didn't care, or didn't think the numbers mattered, I would have no reason to come here and have someone attempt to humiliate me for lack of knowing and attempting to try to learn more. It's as if everyone should just know everything and not even have to ask.

To further confirm... if you had bothered to read carefully (there is indication you at least read part of it)... we were originally looking at travel trailers and our friend got us side-tracked and wanted us to look at a fifth-wheel. I told him I did not think my truck could handle it, but he insisted it could, as did the dealer. HOWEVER, because "I did not know" AND "I do care and want to know"... I decided it would be best to research it and find out what my truck is capable of towing and what would be safe for us, hence my coming here and seeking help and advice.

Several of you guys have been helpful, and I appreciate your assistance.

It's called sarcasm

 

[Brutal_HO]

I've heard about campsites being restricted on size, and that is definitely something to consider and keep in mind.

Camping seems to have really taken off this year... maybe COVID has boosted it with people trying to get out and not stay cooped up inside all the time.

I was reading reviews of one brand and they were pitiful for the most part. Then I started reading reviews of other brands... well they are all pitiful. It seems as if it's a crapshoot if you get a good one. I'm hearing it's best to buy close to home from a reputable dealer because we'll likely need service the first few months no matter what we buy.

We looked at one fifth wheel (3 levels) that we could easily live in.... very nice... $100K. I'm all in when we retire... seems like the way to go... or as someone else mentioned, go with a motor home and pull a vehicle with you.

They're almost all built about the same and most dealers are crap for service at best. We bought a Grand Design 5th Wheel (our second) because we really liked the layout and features and had (sort of) a truck to tow it, but a large factor in our choice was also their customer service reputation.

As to the truck, moving up to a 16K load towing doubles, it was a bit much even for my modified 04.5 2500 (and over the tagged specs) so we moved into a new 3500.

IMHO, a 1500 has no business pulling a 5th wheel, even most of the "half-ton towable" models have wet pin weights exceeding the rear GAWR of the truck - even with higher rated tires. For that matter, even thought the HD trucks can be setup and rated over 26K for fifth wheel towing (35K gooseneck), you should be considering an HDT for something like that.

 

[devildodge]

I respect you @Trooper4 but the sarcasm was pointed at you.

Every one has an opinion. The guys arguing about oil are the worst...nobodies life is in jeopardy.

The guys arguing over fuel mileage are great to. But nobodies family in the opposite direction is in jeopardy.

The guys arguing over open dif, anti spin and eLocker are very entertaining.. And atleast they talk about dangerous scenerios.

But a new guy towing needs to understand the numbers. Heck I learn something new everyday to.

Now I sure like to hear how @Trooper4 can tow these big 5th wheels. It id a testament to how capable these RAM trucks are. But I also understand towing...and understand that @Trooper4 has decades of experience doing this.
Good times...sorry the internet makes sarcasm so hard to understand. Guess it makes us Sheldon Cooper

 

[Trooper4]

I respect you @Trooper4 but the sarcasm was pointed at you.

Every one has an opinion. The guys arguing about oil are the worst...nobodies life is in jeopardy.

The guys arguing over fuel mileage are great to. But nobodies family in the opposite direction is in jeopardy.

The guys arguing over open dif, anti spin and eLocker are very entertaining.. And atleast they talk about dangerous scenerios.

But a new guy towing needs to understand the numbers. Heck I learn something new everyday to.

Now I sure like to hear how @Trooper4 can tow these big 5th wheels. It id a testament to how capable these RAM trucks are. But I also understand towing...and understand that @Trooper4 has decades of experience doing this.
Good times...sorry the internet makes sarcasm so hard to understand. Guess it makes us Sheldon Cooper

Actually the 1500 does just fine if the speed is kept reasonable. This is a shot of the dash when we were around Sacramento a few days ago. In Havasu right now. So far about 2000 miles, and hand calcd is actually about 13mpg. Not complaining one bit. The Sisques around Shasta got me down to about 8mpg, but comming down the other side got the average back up. Tows straight and true even in the wind. I did install the Hellwig and LT tires for the stiffer sidewalls. P rated tires just have too soft of a sidewall and feel mushy when towing.
Like I have said before and will say again though for novices, starting small is the smart move, and get lots of time behind the wheel before moving up in size and weight. Be safe.

 

[Todd]

Following along...
I to, was looking at potentially towing numbers for fifth wheel towing but...
Decided to stay with what we have, and we're very happy with our setup, found in my signature below.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Half page sig line. SMH

 

[Trooper4]

Actually the proper placement of the pin is just ahead of the axle. Puts a small amount of thethe weight on the front as well.

He is correct in that 5th wheels tow better - with the pin weight right over the axle, it's physically less likely to sway. Additionally, a 30 ft 5th wheel is waaaay shorter in total length because about 5ft of that is over the bed.

The catch is that they're putting ~20% of their weight on the tow vehicle to make that happen, rather than a bumper pull's ~10%. In addition, you have to worry about how close the trailer is to the cab of the truck. F150's can handle that ~2,000lb of weight in the bed because they're aluminum, but most Ram's just don't leave you with much wiggle room, unfortunately. The more modern 5th wheels with ceiling fans and rock climbing walls pretty much just assume you're using a dually. Even the smaller "half ton towable" 5th wheels are *really* pushing it in terms of payload.

Personally, if you love your truck and just want a camper - get a reasonable bumper pull. You can hitch it right up, the truck automatically detects it, and you can just go camping. Try to stay under 30 ft, leave some wiggle room in terms of weight, and you'll be in very good company.