Diesel even worth it still?

[Dirtdoc]

Just as comparison, my 18 longhorn hemi on the same trip conditions to Az and back would average 14-16mpg. This is running various speed limits of 65-80. Also had 3.21 rears. My 21 limited eco same trips with 3.92's runs 23-31 depending on everything so it is a huge difference. As far as comments that the ED doesn't pass vehicle well that is nonsense. I pass alot of other vehicles very well. The Ed is not a dog by any means. Maybe mine is different but it does not need a tuner to get up and go. Avg mpg's vary but usually 20-22.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Not sure why, but the price for diesel is under assault these days. According to the Department of Energy, from the start of the year gasoline is up 26% while diesel is up 42%. Also some governors have temporarily suspended the state fuel tax, except for diesel. It's probably not a conspiracy but my tinfoil hat senses are tingling

I didn’t want to come out and say it but with historical prices versus prices now, something’s going on. I wonder if part of it is shifting the profits they get from taxes on regular gas into diesel to lessen burdern on consumers- although, it would still be a burden on consumers if they did that because of the supply chain cost increases.

I almost want to say my tinfoil senses are tingling also, just can’t find clear evidence of anything yet.

I'd say it has to do with commercial trucking and basically guaranteed money because those guys can't just say, I'm not going to drive today. Where as there is a shift to electric vehicles and more work from home so not as much unleaded fuel being used. It's easier for the average person to just not drive, or ride share than commercial truckers who require deisel and can't phone it in

 

[jent]

I don't think the price increases can be simplified to a single source.

I saw this video yesterday and they make some interesting points about how there is a lack of investment in fossil fuel infrastructure. During good times that's not a significant issue but it can cause some stability issues as they point out:

Although the above video claims the war is not a significant source, and although the US imports very little Russian oil. I think it is still important to note that Russian oil is the "heavier sour" crude which is needed to convert the lighter stuff we can produce in the US into diesel fuel. This is important for gas too, but it is more important for diesel. So although we don't need much, as I understand it our current processes do require some of this "heavier sour" crude.

Regardless of the source of the instability I do agree with the video that prices are unlikely to reduce much. Price decreases that do happen will likely be politically motivated because I am sure the oil producers will choose the profits instead (while they still can).

 

[mikeru82]

Well you can check out fuelly and see that most hemi drivers are getting between 14 and 15 litres per 100kms. So on the low end you are saving 4 litres every 100kms. So the gas is costing about $28 per 100kms at a $1.86 per liter. I filled up 2 days ago at 2.03 per litre so the same 100kms cost me $20.

I drive about 1000kms or so per week so that is currently saving $80 a week or about $4000 per year.



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It looks like English, and sounds like English, but I have no idea what it means.

 

[djevox]

Just saw diesel at my normal station for $5.97/gal while reg. unleaded hasn’t changed. It’s a little frustrating.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

I’m a little confused about your comment since we’re talking about diesels right now. It would be nice to know the answer to your question, but there’s even more variables with EV than diesel- you'd have to take power quality, wiring, hardware, and charge rates into consideration. For diesel, the only comparison would be fuel quality.

I was replying to djevox’s post, he said he would like his next truck to be electric, but he put 9900 miles in four months on his current diesel truck, so I was asking him if he expected to get that type of mileage on an electric truck.

 

[Bigdwisco]

A follow up comment. I have gotten as high as 27 mpg with the ED. No wind, flat road and going 55-65. An apples to apples comparison is everyday, which is my commute. I found the ED gets on average 5-6 mpg better at best compared to the Hemi. Towing, well we will see in 2 weeks with an upcoming fishing trip to northern Minnesota. Comments on passing other vehicles were made…. The hemi would run over the ED.

 

[AV8OR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521768492814458882

 

[c3k]

The more I look into this, Diesel is more (supposedly) more costly to refine than gasoline due to the ULSD requirement. (I still don't have real numbers, so that's more like "reasoned opinion from online experts" than fact.)

Couple the higher expense of refining the sulfur out, and the higher demand and reduced supply...and that's why Diesel is always more expensive than gasoline. (At least since the ULSD requirement was put into effect.)

 

[djevox]

I was replying to djevox’s post, he said he would like his next truck to be electric, but he put 9900 miles in four months on his current diesel truck, so I was asking him if he expected to get that type of mileage on an electric truck.

Ahhh, I forgot I posted that so I was wondering why you were commenting on that. I have abandoned the pick up truck EV idea. A lot of people probably don’t remember, but I had a Porsche taycan turbo S on order that I refused on arrival. I did some soul-searching and realized that I am not ready for EV until there is better infrastructure in place. I want to be able to do whatever I want with my vehicle whenever I want.

 

[Johnny_H]

Electric is not the future. At least not in the sense of plug-in batteries and their current use. The infrastructure and lithium supplies won’t be there for several decades….or ever.

I think ICE will live on once hydrogen and synthetic fuel technology becomes more viable - and both are nearly there. Especially with shell and other oil companies actually pursuing alternative energies and not actively stifling advances.

Electric generation will be the future but not in these absurd 1000lb battery packs. Onboard hydrogen generators or even mini nukes will be our future. The current EV concept is already a dinosaur and wildly unsustainable - especially light and heavy duty trucks.


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[djevox]

Diesel is now six dollars where I am and I am officially pissed.

 

[Idahoktm]

Diesel is now six dollars where I am and I am officially pissed.

 

[habu987]

I really don’t think the a new electric truck would be capable of achieving 9900 miles in 4 month. Technology is not there yet. How many hours of charging would that be?

In my current use case with my Kia Sorento PHEV, it's certainly theoretically possible. I generally get ~28 miles of EV range (highway or city, as far as I've been able to tell over the last 5 months of ownership, it's about the same) per full charge, and a full charge takes about 3.5 hours on my L2 charger or ~12 hours on my trickle charger.

If I were to just use the L2 charger, I could easily conceivably do 3 loops a day, getting ~84 miles per day and ~585 miles per week. At that weekly figure, over the course of 4 months I could conceivably drive ~9400 miles. Throw in just 2 extra charge/drive loops per week and that gets you up to ~10300 miles over 4 months.

That isn't remotely close to my driving pattern, but with a concerted effort I could pull it off. I imagine the same would be true of most other PHEVs or EVs with ready access to L2 or L3 chargers.

 

[truckless]

I love diesels and the ecodiesel, so it doesn’t matter to me if I have to eventually spend $4k for parts. The long-term question I struggle over is how long can I go before the Gov’t makes the cost of diesel and gas so high that I need to get rid of diesel for an electric powertrain.

This is one reason why I sold my 3500 Cummins in August (the other was I got more than what I paid for it 2 years earlier).

And is also a reason I have repeatedly said that this will be my last gas truck...was a fun run but I don't want to get stuck with something that is worthless with a high cost of ownership.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

For me, the #1 reason for getting the EcoDiesel was range. I do a lot of long trips and a lot of commuting, so having extra range was very important so I'm not constantly hunting for fuel every couple hundred miles.

1. Time is money and having to hunt for good prices, drive to a station with those good prices, sometimes wait in line, slide my card, fill up, etc. it takes up a decent portion of my precious time, and the more often I have to stop off, the more often I'm spending valuable time. I have a 33gal tank on top of (hopefully) 26-32mpg, meaning I can go long distances before having to stop and fill up.
2. I've found that having more range also gives me more of a buffer to run across better offers and prices. My Frontier has 39-gal in 2 tanks. I have yet to pay more than $3.90/gal to fill up because I have a 750-mile (about 3 weeks) hold out. I avoided one of the biggest spikes in recent history, all because I had the ability to wait. It also means I can map out every gas station on my drive and pick out the one that works for me, it's never an emergency and I have about 3 weeks to really make that decision, especially if only one of my tanks is empty and I decide the offer is too good to pass up.
3. I've learned that apps, like getupside tend to raise their incentives the less I use the app. My wife fills up weekly, I fill up nearly monthly. If we simultaneously open our apps, she will see deals for 5-7c/gal, and I will see 15-25c/gal at the same exact stations for the same grade of fuel. It seems they're trying to draw me in because I use their app so little. I seem to get better deals simply because I can hold out 3 weeks or more without checking gas prices.
4. Diesel stores a lot longer than E10, as well, so it makes it a lot easier to keep around and even store in bulk, if I feel the need.

For me, it's convenience more than anything, but there are hidden advantages.

 

[bucolic]

For me, the #1 reason for getting the EcoDiesel was range. I do a lot of long trips and a lot of commuting, so having extra range was very important so I'm not constantly hunting for fuel every couple hundred miles.

1. Time is money and having to hunt for good prices, drive to a station with those good prices, sometimes wait in line, slide my card, fill up, etc. it takes up a decent portion of my precious time, and the more often I have to stop off, the more often I'm spending valuable time. I have a 33gal tank on top of (hopefully) 26-32mpg, meaning I can go long distances before having to stop and fill up.
2. I've found that having more range also gives me more of a buffer to run across better offers and prices. My Frontier has 39-gal in 2 tanks. I have yet to pay more than $3.90/gal to fill up because I have a 750-mile (about 3 weeks) hold out. I avoided one of the biggest spikes in recent history, all because I had the ability to wait. It also means I can map out every gas station on my drive and pick out the one that works for me, it's never an emergency and I have about 3 weeks to really make that decision, especially if only one of my tanks is empty and I decide the offer is too good to pass up.
3. I've learned that apps, like getupside tend to raise their incentives the less I use the app. My wife fills up weekly, I fill up nearly monthly. If we simultaneously open our apps, she will see deals for 5-7c/gal, and I will see 15-25c/gal at the same exact stations for the same grade of fuel. It seems they're trying to draw me in because I use their app so little. I seem to get better deals simply because I can hold out 3 weeks or more without checking gas prices.
4. Diesel stores a lot longer than E10, as well, so it makes it a lot easier to keep around and even store in bulk, if I feel the need.

For me, it's convenience more than anything, but there are hidden advantages.

The range is really nice for sure. I can fill up the 33-gallon tank and have over 800 miles of HGWY range. This means I can drive my bi-monthly 500-mile round trip from upstate NY to Atlantic City and any running around without having to fuel up until I get back.

I just got back from another trip yesterday and I had 28 MPG on the return 250-mile trip so my gas cost with Diesel at $6.35 a gallon is around $54. On my previous Ram with the Hemi and 3.92 gears at 19MPG the cost would be about $58 with gas at $4.45 a gallon.

So no savings really and adding in DEF and higher maintenance the Diesel is costing more.

The improved range is wonderful though and technically we are using a lot fewer gallons of fuel so maybe polluting less???

One thing I was concerned about when I bought the diesel was if the exhaust smell would stink up the house when I started the vehicle in our garage which is under the living space in the house. I was surprised that I have not once caught the smell of burning diesel from the exhaust. The emission controls on this are something.

My other benefit may be improved towing comfort but I haven't towed with it yet to compare it to the gas. I am not expecting much but am hoping it may have slightly better fuel economy and tow my camper a bit better than the gas.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

The range is really nice for sure. I can fill up the 33-gallon tank and have over 800 miles of HGWY range. This means I can drive my bi-monthly 500-mile round trip from upstate NY to Atlantic City and any running around without having to fuel up until I get back.

I just got back from another trip yesterday and I had 28 MPG on the return 250-mile trip so my gas cost with Diesel at $6.35 a gallon is around $54. On my previous Ram with the Hemi and 3.92 gears at 19MPG the cost would be about $58 with gas at $4.45 a gallon.

So no savings really and adding in DEF and higher maintenance the Diesel is costing more.

The improved range is wonderful though and technically we are using a lot fewer gallons of fuel so maybe polluting less???

One thing I was concerned about when I bought the diesel was if the exhaust smell would stink up the house when I started the vehicle in our garage which is under the living space in the house. I was surprised that I have not once caught the smell of burning diesel from the exhaust. The emission controls on this are something.

My other benefit may be improved towing comfort but I haven't towed with it yet to compare it to the gas. I am not expecting much but am hoping it may have slightly better fuel economy and tow my camper a bit better than the gas.

I take it you have the 4x4?

I ordered one of the most fuel efficient configurations outside of the HFE versions. 4x2 3.21, so I'm hoping I can max that out. I also cruise a lot at around 71-72 on the highway, trying to go a little faster than the big rigs, but not killing my mpg. I'm hoping to get at least the EPA rating on my long trips. Hard to say what my mixed driving will do, I have a bit of a heavy foot, but my Frontier is only getting about 17mpg on average.

I'm hoping the savings will come as prices come down, but I'm more concerned about the value of my time, and again, having a large tank buys me more patience and patience usually pays back when I have time to shop for good prices and cash-back.

The bottom line is that I need a truck, no matter how you cut it. I cross-shopped truck-based SUVs and pickups to get good interior space, comfort, and towing capacity. Nothing else in this segment can beat the EcoDiesel, even if Diesel prices are high. Pickup trucks aren't exactly going to blow anyone's mind with MPGs, but I'm maximizing on what I have to work with, plus I amaze people when I say that my new pickup truck will get 32/33mpg on the highway.

 

[bucolic]

I take it you have the 4x4?

I ordered one of the most fuel efficient configurations outside of the HFE versions. 4x2 3.21, so I'm hoping I can max that out. I also cruise a lot at around 71-72 on the highway, trying to go a little faster than the big rigs, but not killing my mpg. I'm hoping to get at least the EPA rating on my long trips. Hard to say what my mixed driving will do, I have a bit of a heavy foot, but my Frontier is only getting about 17mpg on average.

I'm hoping the savings will come as prices come down, but I'm more concerned about the value of my time, and again, having a large tank buys me more patience and patience usually pays back when I have time to shop for good prices and cash-back.

The bottom line is that I need a truck, no matter how you cut it. I cross-shopped truck-based SUVs and pickups to get good interior space, comfort, and towing capacity. Nothing else in this segment can beat the EcoDiesel, even if Diesel prices are high. Pickup trucks aren't exactly going to blow anyone's mind with MPGs, but I'm maximizing on what I have to work with, plus I amaze people when I say that my new pickup truck will get 32/33mpg on the highway.

Yes, I have the 4X4 with 3.21 gears but all the heavy options like a sunroof, ram box, and multi-function tailgate and managed to get 29.2 on my last trip back. 250 miles averaging 62 mph on the trip. You should be able to hit 30 I would think, at least according to the truck's EVIC. Mixed driving around town I am getting about 25 mpg but I don't mash the accelerator. I long ago quit caring about racing from the lights. Been there done that! Time for the next generation to carry on that tradition. My Hemi with 3.92 gears I was getting about 15 around town and 19 on a good day on the highway.

On a side note also I think at cruising speed on the HGWY the EcoDiesel is smoother and quieter than the Hemi. A little more noise getting going is all but I kinda like the diesel rattle! This is even with the 22" tires which I was concerned might not be that smooth but this thing floats along silently.

 

[djevox]

On a side note also I think at cruising speed on the HGWY the EcoDiesel is smoother and quieter than the Hemi. A little more noise getting going is all but I kinda like the diesel rattle! This is even with the 22" tires which I was concerned might not be that smooth but this thing floats along silently.

Totally, I like the cruising behavior of the Ecodiesel much more than the hemi.

On a different note, I don’t need a truck at all so I don’t know why I’m paying so much to have one. Sometimes I wonder if I should’ve just bought a Porsche SUV, but I’m not getting anything else until there’s really good hybrid options.