Demand For Electric Pickup Trucks Continue To Decline

[HSKR R/T]

What do you consider "new"?
I don't need Cuba. Poor analogy.

New, as in brand new less than a year old. Half the posts on here and the Facebook groups Ikpost in are about issues people are having. One guy with a 2025 had his engine blow with less than 1000 miles on the truck, and it's still at the desler

And Cuba isn't a poor analogy, it just goes to show you what people can do to keep vehicles going some of the stuff they have there is actually pretty damn cool

 

[HSKR R/T]

Of course I have thought of charging stations being tied to generators. But most are not. Look at Detroit last year as an example and also public data here in Florida. There are very few gas stations that are EV charging stations, at scale. Look at the data. With ~70% of vehicles charging at home we would need over 1 million more public charging stations to be built to support EV adoption at scale only to support the 20% of charging that occurs at public stations. How do we charge the other 70% , after building 1million more charging stations, if the grid goes down for whatever reason? Not my data, but the consensus across alternative energy advocacy groups. The 10% excluded are charged at other locations like work or airports.

I am not anchoring my position on EVs to the worst case scenario, I responded to your position that fear of moving to EVs was unreasonable. I've said this a few times now, I am 100% in support of alternative energy vehicles. I'm entirely uncertain how you would arrive at a conclusion that I am anchoring in a bias toward a disaster scenario as discounting the value of alternative energy vehicle; it was a contextual response not an overall position on EVs or other alternative energy vehicles. I am not going to be a cheerleader for EVs when they don't yet deserve that level of support. I'm even more confused that you just did not say, "Huh. I never knew that. I should probably learn more." It seems, not sure, you were unaware that the facts I presented were an element of public planning.

Here is my position. Alternative energy vehicles are a great idea, they are decades away from widescale adoption, and today, like our trucks, they are purpose built; EVs for regional commuting our trucks for utility ( i know most trucks neve haul much of anything). This year 2 trillion dollars, not a typo, will be spent on alternative energy; that is in addition to the nearly 2 trillion spent in 2023. Would you not expect to see great advancements and returns, heck...even good news...with that staggering level of investment? Globally, we could have spent those dollars in a more meaningful and impactful way.

There is a risk management model anyone can use called failure modes and effects analysis. It's free anywhere you look on the web. Actually, FMEA is a required (legislated) process in automobile manufacturing, interestingly enough. FMEA allows anyone to do their own analysis of the risks of adopting EVs and also maintaining ICEVs (pretty much any process or product can be evaluated). Much is learned from going through the FMEA critical thinking process. Like Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." Accelerated adoption model for EVs, mandates, ridiculous levels of public investment with little optimism toward a strategic return, and failure to recognize alternative energy shortcomings are the proverbial punch in the face.

Because you keep referencing a worst case scenario events to try and prove a point. You can say you are "100% for them" but your comments say otherwise. Mostly I'm just playing devil's advocate here pointing out flaws. Look at historical past events, and everything you have said about EVs and evacuation during large scale hurricanes also happened with ICE vehicles during those events. Nothing you have brought up as part of your disadvantage points against EVs is exclusive to them. Look at Louisiana and Hurricane Katrina. Thousands of ICE vehicles were left abandoned on roadways during evacuation because people chose to wait until the last minute, and they ran out of fuel or broke down. And no way to get more fuel or fix due to infrastructure collapse. But you could have just said "Wow, I didn't actually do any research of my own to see that happened with ICE vehicles", you just keep trying to drive home your point about EVs being bad for those situations based on a model you found on Google created by other people.

 

[Jedi9]

Lol this is going the way of the Hurricane thread. To interject one thing, the government can and may very well limit the amount of old used cars laying around. remember Cash for Clunkers? Out of the over half a million cares the govt paid 3 billion to get rid of, many were decent vehicles. The vintage car guys, myself included, lost a lot of parts cars that weren't going to be driven anyway, and folks with little disposable income lost a large pool of driver cars. Sure if you weren't impacted it didn't matter but some folks were, just as many will be impacted by the EV mandates.

 

[theblet]

On the news this morning, they said Volvo has reversed plans to be an EV only company by 2030. Guess they don't want to lose billions like Ford did.

 

[bigdodge]

something to ponder

 

[theblet]

something to ponder

I didn't think about cost of car insurance. Another detriment. Seems the cons currently outway the pros. That may change later on, who knows.

I agree that hybrids are a good compromise. At least you have the option of using gas, and not having to worry about trying to find a charger.

 

[mikeru82]

I didn't think about cost of car insurance. Another detriment. Seems the cons currently outway the pros. That may change later on, who knows.

I agree that hybrids are a good compromise. At least you have the option of using gas, and not having to worry about trying to find a charger.

Agreed. I could see getting a hybrid for commuting. It actually makes a lot more sense than fully electric. The biggest issue is that most of these state mandates would exclude hybrids. The language is quite clear in saying no new vehicles with internal combustion engines.

 

[theblet]

Agreed. I could see getting a hybrid for commuting. It actually makes a lot more sense than fully electric. The biggest issue is that most of these state mandates would exclude hybrids. The language is quite clear in saying no new vehicles with internal combustion engines.

Idk what deal the deep state made with tech companies, but it must be really good to completely ostracize all ICE.

 

[mikeru82]

Idk what deal the deep state made with tech companies, but it must be really good to completely ostracize all ICE.

Pretty sure things go much deeper than that but I won’t go down that rabbit hole LOL.

 

[jimothy]

I'm guessing the biggest reason people are anit-EV has something to do with politicians, they need a better sales pitch

The problem is that politicians think they need a sales pitch at all. They are not EV manufacturers or sales people; they should stay out of it, other than removing artificial market barriers they created.

If/when EVs are a viable option for mainstream consumers, they won’t need subsidies or mandates. They shouldn’t have subsidies or mandates at all.

I like Will Prowse’s take on EVs. He much more bullish than I am, but i find myself in agreement with much of what he says here.

 

[Jako]

New, as in brand new less than a year old. Half the posts on here and the Facebook groups Ikpost in are about issues people are having. One guy with a 2025 had his engine blow with less than 1000 miles on the truck, and it's still at the desler

And Cuba isn't a poor analogy, it just goes to show you what people can do to keep vehicles going some of the stuff they have there is actually pretty damn cool

You can bring up examples of car companies having issues, bring in whatever country you want. Play all you want, a new vehicle is not going to have the potential problems of older vehicles.
And that is one of the reasons people buy new and lease.

Sure you can keep a car running after a repair and another repair and another repair and so on And if you can't figure it out pick up a Cuba mechanic.

 

[HSKR R/T]

You can bring up examples of car companies having issues, bring in whatever country you want. Play all you want, a new vehicle is not going to have the potential problems of older vehicles.
And that is one of the reasons people buy new and lease.

Sure you can keep a car running after a repair and another repair and another repair and so on And if you can't figure it out pick up a Cuba mechanic.

Don't tell all the 2025 RAM owners having multiple issues that.

And a properly maintained vehicle doesn't need repair after repair. Basic maintenance and replacing parts as part of maintenance schedule isn't repair after repair. Granted a cast majority of people are just to ignorant to do the basic maintenance to keep their cars running for long term ownership.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Idk what deal the deep state made with tech companies, but it must be really good to completely ostracize all ICE.

It's more the environazis who thinks EVs will save the environment. They don't care where the materials for the batteries come from because it's not from the US. These are the same people who brokered and thought the Paris Accord was a good deal, despite not punishing the worst polluters,.but instead basically rewarding them.

 

[Jako]

Don't tell all the 2025 RAM owners having multiple issues that.

And a properly maintained vehicle doesn't need repair after repair. Basic maintenance and replacing parts as part of maintenance schedule isn't repair after repair. Granted a cast majority of people are just to ignorant to do the basic maintenance to keep their cars running for long term ownership.

Whats's your maintainence on fuel pumps?
NJTKP break down, pump worked just not enough pressure. Tha mechanic saved it for his auto class? How about a crank position sensor?
My fleet is old. Bought a 1990 Celica with a 153000 miles and put about 40k on it. What's the maintaining for sales. My 2019 Ram 40011 miles

Don't tell all the 2025 RAM owners having multiple issues that.

And a properly maintained vehicle doesn't need repair after repair. Basic maintenance and replacing parts as part of maintenance schedule isn't repair after repair. Granted a cast majority of people are just to ignorant to do the basic maintenance to keep their cars running for long term ownership.

I've had fuel pumps go - what do you recommend for maintenance? How about a crank position sensor? My 2019 ram is out since May 28th, yet to be diagnosed, but "internal damage" is the preliminary.
I consider a new car one that is within the manufacturer warranty, for the most part 3 years. I'm not sure what people classify as new. I've never needed a tow in that 3 year period out of 5 new vehicles, not counting motorcycles. But I have at the 5 1/2 year or so mark on 2 vehicles. One was the fuel pump. It actually still pumped but without enough capacity. The mechanic taught high school shop and kept it as an example. And then the Ram is still to be torn down and diagnosed. The fuel pump was on the NJ TPK, hard hit on the wallet as it was towed to a yard then another tow back to home.

My 2001 Dodge Ram 1500 also needed a fuel pump but I didn't break down with that one from what I recall.
As far as people and maintenance go perhaps today people are a little better with sensors, dash lights and state inspections. No guarantees on that.

A hydraulic hose is getting old, no leak. It gets changed, one calls it a repair, another calls it maintenance. If it was leaking does that become a repair over maintenance?

 

[HSKR R/T]

Whats's your maintainence on fuel pumps?
NJTKP break down, pump worked just not enough pressure. Tha mechanic saved it for his auto class? How about a crank position sensor?
My fleet is old. Bought a 1990 Celica with a 153000 miles and put about 40k on it. What's the maintaining for sales. My 2019 Ram 40011 miles

I've had fuel pumps go - what do you recommend for maintenance? How about a crank position sensor? My 2019 ram is out since May 28th, yet to be diagnosed, but "internal damage" is the preliminary.
I consider a new car one that is within the manufacturer warranty, for the most part 3 years. I'm not sure what people classify as new. I've never needed a tow in that 3 year period out of 5 new vehicles, not counting motorcycles. But I have at the 5 1/2 year or so mark on 2 vehicles. One was the fuel pump. It actually still pumped but without enough capacity. The mechanic taught high school shop and kept it as an example. And then the Ram is still to be torn down and diagnosed. The fuel pump was on the NJ TPK, hard hit on the wallet as it was towed to a yard then another tow back to home.

My 2001 Dodge Ram 1500 also needed a fuel pump but I didn't break down with that one from what I recall.
As far as people and maintenance go perhaps today people are a little better with sensors, dash lights and state inspections. No guarantees on that.

A hydraulic hose is getting old, no leak. It gets changed, one calls it a repair, another calls it maintenance. If it was leaking does that become a repair over maintenance?

Anecdotal issues you have personally had are good enough for your argument but when I bring up the fact even brand new cars have issues, that's not? And being under warranty doesn't prevent you from being without the vehicle while it gets fixed. There are guys with trucks who have been at the dealership waiting on parts for months, but could have had it fixed and driving quicker had they not received on dealership and warranty. Warranty repairs require OEM parts.

I'm driving a 1999 Dakota R/T 185k miles with factory fuel pump. I'm about to replace it, but only because I have to get to fuel pump assembly to replace the pressure regulator anyways, so going to change out the pump while I'm in that far. And only replacing pressure regulator because it's also the anti-drainback valve and is allowing fuel to drain out of fuel rails when parked. Which causing it to crank longer before it will start as the pump has to get fuel back up to the fuel rails. So more of an annoyance, than preventing me from driving it It also has the factory crank position sensor.

Basic maintenance means replacing older items before they fail, and not waiting until they do. Being able to recognize when things are starting to wear out so you can replace them before total failure. Cheaper to replace parts before they totally fail than waiting until the vehicle doesn't run any longer. But like I said earlier, most people now days lack the ability to recognize when there are issues starting, or at just to lazy/cheap to address the issues before they become major problems. Then they cry because it's going to cost so much to fix, even though they had been driving it for months with known issues.

Also have a 98 Chevy C1500 with factory fuel pump. It's my step sons daily driver. Was inheritance from his grandpa when he passed away three years ago. We've done some basic work on it to "fix" little things to keep it running good. Replaced both front fenders due to rust, replaced intake manifold because it was leaking coolant. New water pump while we had intake manifold off, not because the water pump was bad, but because I didn't know how old it was, so replace it before it fails. Brakes have been replaced, transmission rebuilt, still cheaper than buying a new vehicle, and probably more reliable.

 

[Jako]

Anecdotal issues you have personally had are good enough for your argument but when I bring up the fact even brand new cars have issues, that's not? And being under warranty doesn't prevent you from being without the vehicle while it gets fixed. There are guys with trucks who have been at the dealership waiting on parts for months, but could have had it fixed and driving quicker had they not received on dealership and warranty. Warranty repairs require OEM parts.

I'm driving a 1999 Dakota R/T 185k miles with factory fuel pump. I'm about to replace it, but only because I have to get to fuel pump assembly to replace the pressure regulator anyways, so going to change out the pump while I'm in that far. And only replacing pressure regulator because it's also the anti-drainback valve and is allowing fuel to drain out of fuel rails when parked. Which causing it to crank longer before it will start as the pump has to get fuel back up to the fuel rails. So more of an annoyance, than preventing me from driving it It also has the factory crank position sensor.

Basic maintenance means replacing older items before they fail, and not waiting until they do. Being able to recognize when things are starting to wear out so you can replace them before total failure. Cheaper to replace parts before they totally fail than waiting until the vehicle doesn't run any longer. But like I said earlier, most people now days lack the ability to recognize when there are issues starting, or at just to lazy/cheap to address the issues before they become major problems. Then they cry because it's going to cost so much to fix, even though they had been driving it for months with known issues.

Also have a 98 Chevy C1500 with factory fuel pump. It's my step sons daily driver. Was inheritance from his grandpa when he passed away three years ago. We've done some basic work on it to "fix" little things to keep it running good. Replaced both front fenders due to rust, replaced intake manifold because it was leaking coolant. New water pump while we had intake manifold off, not because the water pump was bad, but because I didn't know how old it was, so replace it before it fails. Brakes have been replaced, transmission rebuilt, still cheaper than buying a new vehicle, and probably more reliable.

Maintenance? Truck sounds like a rebuild. Fenders?
I have the 2001 Dodge Ram, transmission rebuilt (that's with tranny fluid changed at 25K intervals), rear end replaced and repair/maintenance on front end. It has 87K miles.
My brother has a 2500 Dodge Ram with Cummins diesel he has replaced the doors so far, along with a batch of mechanical stuff. AC was a big hit.
I actually thought about "restoring" my 2001 instead of buying. That would have required repairing the AC which from what I recall was a 1500 to 1700 hit along with all the body work (doors and fenders). No comparison in trucks abilities and comfort between the two (hp, mpg, ride quality).

Newer vehicles are more complex and with that more potential problems. A new vehicle may have a delay in parts with todays supply chain. An older vehicle you will be calling on the Cuban mechanic for some form of adaption, been there, done that, on my 1990 Toyota Celica's brake fluid holder.

And as a mechanic you know the routine with rusty broken bolts on older vehicles. But of course if you do wool wax and spray all the exposed bolts with wd 40 or penetrating oil you could avoid some of that. Would that be part of the maintenance routine?

I talked to a cabby in NYC and I believe it was a Ford Crown Vic or Gran Marquis (not sure of year and how old, early 90s). He changed the oil weekly and the transmission fluid at 25K miles and had the original motor, tranny and exhaust. The 25k changes didn't help me. The 2001 Dodge was a family driver and the wife put most of the miles on it, it had an easy life.

Bottom line is I'll take the new ( 3 years for me) vehicle for reliability over an older vehicle. Your premise from what I can gather is a properly maintained vehicle is just as good and it can run forever with proper maintenance which becomes a rebuild at some point. My experience says otherwise and I would say most people agree.

As far as a 2019 Ram vs a 1998 Chevy and the future it doesn't appear the Ram will come out ahead and the complexity is just part of that story.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Maintenance? Truck sounds like a rebuild. Fenders?
I have the 2001 Dodge Ram, transmission rebuilt (that's with tranny fluid changed at 25K intervals), rear end replaced and repair/maintenance on front end. It has 87K miles.
My brother has a 2500 Dodge Ram with Cummins diesel he has replaced the doors so far, along with a batch of mechanical stuff. AC was a big hit.
I actually thought about "restoring" my 2001 instead of buying. That would have required repairing the AC which from what I recall was a 1500 to 1700 hit along with all the body work (doors and fenders). No comparison in trucks abilities and comfort between the two (hp, mpg, ride quality).

Newer vehicles are more complex and with that more potential problems. A new vehicle may have a delay in parts with todays supply chain. An older vehicle you will be calling on the Cuban mechanic for some form of adaption, been there, done that, on my 1990 Toyota Celica's brake fluid holder.

And as a mechanic you know the routine with rusty broken bolts on older vehicles. But of course if you do wool wax and spray all the exposed bolts with wd 40 or penetrating oil you could avoid some of that. Would that be part of the maintenance routine?

I talked to a cabby in NYC and I believe it was a Ford Crown Vic or Gran Marquis (not sure of year and how old, early 90s). He changed the oil weekly and the transmission fluid at 25K miles and had the original motor, tranny and exhaust. The 25k changes didn't help me. The 2001 Dodge was a family driver and the wife put most of the miles on it, it had an easy life.

Bottom line is I'll take the new ( 3 years for me) vehicle for reliability over an older vehicle. Your premise from what I can gather is a properly maintained vehicle is just as good and it can run forever with proper maintenance which becomes a rebuild at some point. My experience says otherwise and I would say most people agree.

As far as a 2019 Ram vs a 1998 Chevy and the future it doesn't appear the Ram will come out ahead and the complexity is just part of that story.

If you can't do any work on your own vehicles, then it's always going to cost more to maintain. New or old.

I put over 120k miles on my first 99 Dakota R/T with tons of racing, and a modified engine. Stock transmission, and did fluid/filter changes every 60k miles. Never get a "flush" as that will cause early death. My dad has a 94 RAM 1500 we used to tow antique tractors to tractor pulls. Was well over it's rated towing capacity, never had a single issue with his transmission. Not sure the full history of the current 99 Dakota R/T I just bought in May, but it was 185k miles on it, and never as I can tell, it's still the factory transmission with just a shift kit in the valve body. I did install billet servos and better governor pressure solenoid after I got it because it wasn't wanting to make the 2-3 shift at full throttle. But it shifts fine now.

Also have a 1966 Dodge D100, I had stock heads rebuilt, honed the cylinders, installed new piston rings and new bearings. Manual transmission. Replaced the rear axle bearings, front hub bearings, and fixed the brakes. All original paint and interior. I'll drive it cross country right now with no concerns.

Parts for older vehicles aren't hard to find. And if you can do your own work, maintenance is pennies on the dollar compared to paying a shop. Judging by your comments, you aren't one that knows how to fix your own vehicles.

 

[Jako]

If you can't do any work on your own vehicles, then it's always going to cost more to maintain. New or old.

I put over 120k miles on my first 99 Dakota R/T with tons of racing, and a modified engine. Stock transmission, and did fluid/filter changes every 60k miles. Never get a "flush" as that will cause early death. My dad has a 94 RAM 1500 we used to tow antique tractors to tractor pulls. Was well over it's rated towing capacity, never had a single issue with his transmission. Not sure the full history of the current 99 Dakota R/T I just bought in May, but it was 185k miles on it, and never as I can tell, it's still the factory transmission with just a shift kit in the valve body. I did install billet servos and better governor pressure solenoid after I got it because it wasn't wanting to make the 2-3 shift at full throttle. But it shifts fine now.

Also have a 1966 Dodge D100, I had stock heads rebuilt, honed the cylinders, installed new piston rings and new bearings. Manual transmission. Replaced the rear axle bearings, front hub bearings, and fixed the brakes. All original paint and interior. I'll drive it cross country right now with no concerns.

Parts for older vehicles aren't hard to find. And if you can do your own work, maintenance is pennies on the dollar compared to paying a shop. Judging by your comments, you aren't one that knows how to fix your own vehicles.

Depending on the circumstances.
Decided to focus on home improvement and promotional exams. I had limited time and good mechanics so I left it up to them. I do my own work on my BMW motorcycles. I've done the bucket shims, abs system and replaced a seal. Still trying to find the time for the oil pump install. With the right books, literature, videos and tools, I enjoy the work.

Real estate is the gift that keeps giving. Putting my time into renovations and building my own house has payed back many dividends. I got ahead of the baby boomers and had my 1st house paid for by 25, 1955 is the middle of the boomers. The older boomers had it easy compared to the younger ones. I'm in the middle but jumped in with the oldrer ones. I learned from my grandfather and uncles how it worked. Lot easier in 1978 than today and doubt you can do what I did because of the cost of housing today. In NYC the laws will break you. I know people who will not even rent because of the potential problems.

Mechanic
Give me the books, tools and time and the job will be to spec. Which from what I discovered on my BMWs will be better than the techs at the shop

I bought a bmw motor, tranny and intermediate housing for 160 dollars to learn how to do the bucket shims. Took my time and than did my MC. Torque specs were off, same on the abs and didn't particularly care for work on a luggage rack install.

When I do an oil change I don't over fill like what has been done to me or put traditional oil in a 2019 Ram like the dealership and my tires are rotated with the lug nuts to the appropriate torque.

I've had some great mechanics that do work on the side. Right now I have a BMW mechanic and things work fine. If he doesn't have the time I have a few shops I can turn to.

I'm involved with 7 houses, 6 cars and 4 motorcycles so something has to give. Still leaving the wife and 3 sons out of the time equation. Three eagle scouts, 3 trips to Philmont, 3 college degrees. 1 masters plus the coaching.
Like I said something has to give.

 

[theblet]

The problem is that politicians think they need a sales pitch at all. They are not EV manufacturers or sales people; they should stay out of it, other than removing artificial market barriers they created.

If/when EVs are a viable option for mainstream consumers, they won’t need subsidies or mandates. They shouldn’t have subsidies or mandates at all.

I like Will Prowse’s take on EVs. He much more bullish than I am, but i find myself in agreement with much of what he says here.

He has some good points. He seems to come from a place of very upper middle class, possibly wealthy?

When it comes to the grid, he says just make your own solar farm and charge the EV yourself. He also says he doesn't agree with having debt, and that people are buying $80k trucks instead we should get minivans. eh ok

 

[go-ram]

... Also have a 1966 Dodge D100, I had stock heads rebuilt, honed the cylinders, installed new piston rings and new bearings. Manual transmission. Replaced the rear axle bearings, front hub bearings, and fixed the brakes. All original paint and interior. I'll drive it cross country right now with no concerns.

.
I drove a 1965 D500 crew-cab, long wheelbase "gang truck" in the oilfields near Taft, CA during summer employment at a major US oil company. 318 v8, manual transmission, split rear end. VERY heavily loaded flat-bed with an A-frame cable winch, tool boxes full of sledge hammers, pipe wrenches up to 48", and tons of heavy, large steel pipe fittings (threaded and Victaulic). I LOVED that truck. It was slow to accelerate, but was completely reliable, rode like a Cadillac, and was a good-looking truck. I never cared for that damn split rear end, though. But congratulations on your '66 D100, those are handsome, well-built trucks.
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