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Demand For Electric Pickup Trucks Continue To Decline

Yup. I am kinda new to the forum and didn’t know if I’d get booted for going that direction. 100%. These decisions are politically expedient first, solving problems last, made by idiots who only care is to get elected next term and get their campaigns funded by the beneficiaries of their stupid policies (big battery, steel, Asia, etc). This is not solving problems. I’m a conservative independent but the environment is important to me. Give you an idea, I have a 15Kwh solar array with 20kwh batteries. I have just about a zero electric bill. I had no idea how much damage we do to the environment producing both solar panels and batteries when I designed the system. So I contributed to less electricity production but I also contributed to a lot of damage in the mining and production of the final products of my system. I never would have done it if I knew then what I know now. We are doing more harm than good with the EV initiatives and other green programs too I presume.
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I think the jury is still out in terms of overall benefit or harm to the environment for residential rooftop solar. By the time your system ages out, they will have figured out better materials recycling methods. In the meantime, your system is doing its part to reduce exhaust emissions from fossil-fueled powerplants, and although I haven't done the calculations myself, I would bet that even before the system components are recycled at end of life in 20-30 years, your system will have caused less air pollution overall.
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Not to mention the greatest benefit: Independence from (a) the government meddling in energy pricing, and (b) independence from the power company. I can't afford to do the solar + household battery thing on my house, but if I had the money, I'd do it in a heartbeat for the reasons (a) & (b) I cited here. Yeah, the gov't is a meddling PIA (pain in the ****), but the power companies are just as bad in their own ways. So congratulations to you for investing in your household's independence from gov't and the energy companies. Enjoy it!
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I think the jury is still out in terms of overall benefit or harm to the environment for residential rooftop solar. By the time your system ages out, they will have figured out better materials recycling methods. In the meantime, your system is doing its part to reduce exhaust emissions from fossil-fueled powerplants, and although I haven't done the calculations myself, I would bet that even before the system components are recycled at end of life in 20-30 years, your system will have caused less air pollution overall.
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Not to mention the greatest benefit: Independence from (a) the government meddling in energy pricing, and (b) independence from the power company. I can't afford to do the solar + household battery thing on my house, but if I had the money, I'd do it in a heartbeat for the reasons (a) & (b) I cited here. Yeah, the gov't is a meddling PIA (pain in the ****), but the power companies are just as bad in their own ways. So congratulations to you for investing in your household's independence from gov't and the energy companies. Enjoy it!
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Yup. I see your points and agree somewhat. But for my two batteries alone they had to move at least 500,000 pounds of earth. Maybe as much as a million pounds. Then the water and runoff issues. It just cannot be good for the earth. But you are right that there is disagreement and I am no scientist. All that said I think my point about political expediency is true. Politicians, red and blue, were eager to attach themselves to an initiative that seemed green but actually might not be. So here we are with vehicles nobody wants and mandates, likely unattainable or at least just aspirational, that might do more harm than good.
 
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I think the jury is still out in terms of overall benefit or harm to the environment for residential rooftop solar. By the time your system ages out, they will have figured out better materials recycling methods. In the meantime, your system is doing its part to reduce exhaust emissions from fossil-fueled powerplants, and although I haven't done the calculations myself, I would bet that even before the system components are recycled at end of life in 20-30 years, your system will have caused less air pollution overall.
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Not to mention the greatest benefit: Independence from (a) the government meddling in energy pricing, and (b) independence from the power company. I can't afford to do the solar + household battery thing on my house, but if I had the money, I'd do it in a heartbeat for the reasons (a) & (b) I cited here. Yeah, the gov't is a meddling PIA (pain in the ****), but the power companies are just as bad in their own ways. So congratulations to you for investing in your household's independence from gov't and the energy companies. Enjoy it!
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That represents production from about march of last year. So you are right. That’s a lot of Co2 that I saved.
 
Yup. I see your points and agree somewhat. But for my two batteries alone they had to move at least 500,000 pounds of earth. Maybe as much as a million pounds. Then the water and runoff issues. It just cannot be good for the earth. But you are right that there is disagreement and I am no scientist. All that said I think my point about political expediency is true. Politicians, red and blue, were eager to attach themselves to an initiative that seemed green but actually might not be. So here we are with vehicles nobody wants and mandates, likely unattainable or at least just aspirational, that might do more harm than good.
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I agree, the politicians who forced the EV thing on the world went about it the wrong way, without adequate knowledge of the unintended consequences. I believe they meant well, but frankly, they went about it like idiots. A classic example of that old saying "a little information is a dangerous thing". Those who became hysterical about "climate change" or whatever you want to call it, looked at it without much critical thinking they got caught up in the hysteria and didn't think things through.
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I've always said that, upon receipt of the bad news from "the scientists", the proper next step would have been to turn that info over to the engineers to analyze the data, propose solutions, and do the full suite of calculations to determine which options provided the greatest net benefit, and to steer us away form the hysterical solutions proposed that would (and have) run us into a ditch. Scientists are good at some things, they are not good at everything, whereas engineers are trained to look at all sides of the picture and do the appropriate calculations. Both areas of expertise (scientific and engineering) are necessary, but neither area alone is sufficient. Gotta have both, gotta take the time to look at all the possible scenarios and do the calcs for each scenario.
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That represents production from about march of last year. So you are right. That’s a lot of Co2 that I saved.
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That's a good amount of power produced. The sunk cost is already made, both financial and environmental, so the only thing to do now is (a) keep the system maintained for peak performance and (b) enjoy the hell out of it for the next 20-30 years.
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Be careful of the numbers saying X amount of earth was moved to make a given battery. I believe the vast, vast majority of those numbers one can find today are politically-motivated numbers, cherry-picked depending on which side of the divide the cherry-picker is. I keep an eye out on these studies, try to vet them as best I can so I know if the numbers can be trusted, and so far I have yet to find ANY study that I really trust. I can't tell you what's right, all I can say is "Don't trust, and do verify."
 
The voters where I live in the country have a truck in every driveway, majority not for show. They will go for economical transportation, with long ranges, and a good payload. You can get extra gas tanks on a truck. Can you get extra battery packs?
Also, if you run out of gas, someone can bring some to you. You can't call someone and say "Can you bring me a can of electricity? I'm out!"
 
Also, if you run out of gas, someone can bring some to you. You can't call someone and say "Can you bring me a can of electricity? I'm out!"
They can bring you a generator. But just like running out of gas, if your planning sucks that much that you run down your battery to where you are stuck on the road, it's your own damn fault
 
They can bring you a generator. But just like running out of gas, if your planning sucks that much that you run down your battery to where you are stuck on the road, it's your own damn fault
Won’t be my fault because I won’t have one.
 
Just sayin' won't work in my part of the country. Maybe if you live in, near a city, and all your truck commutes are short. But that limits what you can do. You couldn't take a Boogielander trip for sure.
 
Won’t be my fault because I won’t have one.
I’m with you, for now. If I could get similar range to diesel or gas, I’d look hard at them if they were also not doing stupid **** to the environment just to get the lithium. Not sure how they get around that.
 
I’m with you, for now. If I could get similar range to diesel or gas, I’d look hard at them if they were also not doing stupid **** to the environment just to get the lithium. Not sure how they get around that.
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I really think in 5-10 years we'll see significant improvements starting to solve the problems with current LI-ion battery chemistries - cost, range, recharge times and environmental issues. With solid state already being sold for 1-2 kWh household batteries for short power outages, EVs with solid-state batteries can't be more than 3-5 years behind, probably less, and that will reduce much of the fear of fires as well as weigh less. The EU is scaling up production for zinc-based batteries, which will take some of the pressure of off Li-ion. If zinc works out, for the same energy storage as a given Li-ion they are 1/3 less weight, are priced closer to lead-acid batteries than Li-ion, far less fire hazard, and zinc is fairly abundant compared to the lithium, cobalt, etc. in today's Li-ion chemistries. You still have to mine it, so that's a negative, but at least it's widely abundant, not limited to a few countries. And there are tons of people working on other battery chemistries as well which might be even better yet. It'll take a few years, but it'll happen.
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I’m with you, for now. If I could get similar range to diesel or gas, I’d look hard at them if they were also not doing stupid **** to the environment just to get the lithium. Not sure how they get around that.
With the current tech, it would take hella amounts of batteries and lots of charging to get the range of ICE on an EV. And yes, it takes a lot of emissions and environmental wrecking to get the materials. Pretty much eliminating the “greenness” of the EV, unless you keep it for like 400k+ miles to overcome the manufacturing penalty. Lord knows how many sets of batteries you’d go through to get to 400k miles. I’m guess a few or more.
 
With the current tech, it would take hella amounts of batteries and lots of charging to get the range of ICE on an EV. And yes, it takes a lot of emissions and environmental wrecking to get the materials. Pretty much eliminating the “greenness” of the EV, unless you keep it for like 400k+ miles to overcome the manufacturing penalty. Lord knows how many sets of batteries you’d go through to get to 400k miles. I’m guess a few or more.
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The real-world evidence so far is that, for one example, many Tesla batteries are at 200,000+ miles and are still going strong. Some users (typically taxi-cab companies in large cities) report 300,000-400,000 on the original batteries. Same for the electric motors.
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Sure, a small percentage of EV batteries or electric motors are defective and crap out early, but the statistics are the same (worse, probably) for ICE vehicles: There are plenty of 2020-something Ford Brocos with V6s dropping valves, and last week I saw yet another recall for police Explorers blowing rods out the side of the blocks. Toyota is replacing 102,000 V6 ICE engines in their latest Tundra and Lexus vehicles. Ram's 6.7 L Cummins engines have a long history of dropping the grid-heater bolts into the intake manifold and on into the cylinders. No vehicle, no technology is immune from defects. But so far Tesla's EVs and Toyota's hybrids have proven that their traction batteries can indeed go many hundreds of thousands of miles.
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As another real-world example, my commuter & town errands car is a beater Prius, 20 years old, 197,000 miles on the original hybrid battery. My professional-grade OBD2 tester shows the hybrid battery to be 100%, and as the one that's driven the car for all 20 years, I can honestly say there has been no noticeable degradation in terms of hybrid battery performance.
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Bashing EV batteries out of hand without verifiable facts to back up statements is just not helpful. Yes, there's a big environmental hit to mining and manufacturing today's large, Li-ion EV batteries, but even the anti-EV articles peg the CO2 payback at less than 100,000 miles. Some fairly credible studies put it at 40,000-80,000 miles, depending on if the user charges via rooftop solar or charges from the grid fed by coal-fired power plants in their locale. So if today's EV batteries can go even just 200,000 miles, let alone 400,000 miles, then there is a net environmental benefit, at least as far as the CO2 accounting goes.
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As has been said many times, THE most economical, environmentally-friendly decision any of us can make is to NOT go out and buy a new vehicle to save the environment, rather the smart thing to do is keep your existing vehicle in good running order and run it until it's no longer reasonably useable. The old WW-II mantra comes to mind "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without!"
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In a few years the technology of EV batteries, recycling the batteries and the charging infrastructure will have improved to the point that for many use-cases, an EV will be the most sensible and economical choice (especially if one has rooftop solar and can charge their EV at home from their solar as opposed to charging from the grid). We'll still need plenty of ICE vehicles running on gasoline/diesel/natural-gas/hydrogen to do the heavy duty jobs. But for a huge amount of daily driving, there's nothing wrong with using EVs for that local, light duty stuff. That saves more fossil fuels for the big jobs (trucking/earthmoving/air travel/recreational towing, producing plastic, etc.)
 
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That's a good amount of power produced. The sunk cost is already made, both financial and environmental, so the only thing to do now is (a) keep the system maintained for peak performance and (b) enjoy the hell out of it for the next 20-30 years.
.
Be careful of the numbers saying X amount of earth was moved to make a given battery. I believe the vast, vast majority of those numbers one can find today are politically-motivated numbers, cherry-picked depending on which side of the divide the cherry-picker is. I keep an eye out on these studies, try to vet them as best I can so I know if the numbers can be trusted, and so far I have yet to find ANY study that I really trust. I can't tell you what's right, all I can say is "Don't trust, and do verify."
Pretty sure most of the 'facts' about EVs, solar, batteries like $25K to replace the battery, tons of earth moved, child labor, etc. are generated by Big Oil.
 
Pretty sure most of the 'facts' about EVs, solar, batteries like $25K to replace the battery, tons of earth moved, child labor, etc. are generated by Big Oil.
Most anti-EV people just copy and paste talking points they have seen others posts, without any actual research of their own, and cite them as the end all, be all facts. Trying to convince them otherwise with actual facts is wasted time
 
I'm guessing the biggest reason people are anit-EV has something to do with politicians, they need a better sales pitch
 
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The real-world evidence so far is that, for one example, many Tesla batteries are at 200,000+ miles and are still going strong. Some users (typically taxi-cab companies in large cities) report 300,000-400,000 on the original batteries. Same for the electric motors.
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Sure, a small percentage of EV batteries or electric motors are defective and crap out early, but the statistics are the same (worse, probably) for ICE vehicles: There are plenty of 2020-something Ford Brocos with V6s dropping valves, and last week I saw yet another recall for police Explorers blowing rods out the side of the blocks. Toyota is replacing 102,000 V6 ICE engines in their latest Tundra and Lexus vehicles. Ram's 6.7 L Cummins engines have a long history of dropping the grid-heater bolts into the intake manifold and on into the cylinders. No vehicle, no technology is immune from defects. But so far Tesla's EVs and Toyota's hybrids have proven that their traction batteries can indeed go many hundreds of thousands of miles.
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As another real-world example, my commuter & town errands car is a beater Prius, 20 years old, 197,000 miles on the original hybrid battery. My professional-grade OBD2 tester shows the hybrid battery to be 100%, and as the one that's driven the car for all 20 years, I can honestly say there has been no noticeable degradation in terms of hybrid battery performance.
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Bashing EV batteries out of hand without verifiable facts to back up statements is just not helpful. Yes, there's a big environmental hit to mining and manufacturing today's large, Li-ion EV batteries, but even the anti-EV articles peg the CO2 payback at less than 100,000 miles. Some fairly credible studies put it at 40,000-80,000 miles, depending on if the user charges via rooftop solar or charges from the grid fed by coal-fired power plants in their locale. So if today's EV batteries can go even just 200,000 miles, let alone 400,000 miles, then there is a net environmental benefit, at least as far as the CO2 accounting goes.
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As has been said many times, THE most economical, environmentally-friendly decision any of us can make is to NOT go out and buy a new vehicle to save the environment, rather the smart thing to do is keep your existing vehicle in good running order and run it until it's no longer reasonably useable. The old WW-II mantra comes to mind "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without!"
.
In a few years the technology of EV batteries, recycling the batteries and the charging infrastructure will have improved to the point that for many use-cases, an EV will be the most sensible and economical choice (especially if one has rooftop solar and can charge their EV at home from their solar as opposed to charging from the grid). We'll still need plenty of ICE vehicles running on gasoline/diesel/natural-gas/hydrogen to do the heavy duty jobs. But for a huge amount of daily driving, there's nothing wrong with using EVs for that local, light duty stuff. That saves more fossil fuels for the big jobs (trucking/earthmoving/air travel/recreational towing, producing plastic, etc.)

good thing I’m not anti EV. I believe they can be beneficial, especially for those with short commutes that can charge at home. Depends on the use case. I was responding to the post about the truck version and getting 500 to 600 miles in one charge.
 
I'm guessing the biggest reason people are anit-EV has something to do with politicians, they need a better sales pitch
I believe it has more to do with the govt telling you that you have to use them, instead of let you decide what’s best for you. You know, like freedom. 😉
 
I believe it has more to do with the govt telling you that you have to use them, instead of let you decide what’s best for you. You know, like freedom. 😉
Nobody is forcing anyone to use EVs.
 

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