Dealer refuses to do PCM updates

[brian42]

If it's warranty work you should get a rental/loaner vehicle. My dealership won't give me one unless I specifically ask for one then it's no problem.

This was only my second visit for warranty work. The first time it was okay but my service writer had been working there less than a week. The second time around I got one that had been there for awhile and understood things (and the vehicles) a little better which made for a much better experience (and more items resolved).

It may not always be the dealership that's the issue but who your representative is for your visit. Just my .02

 

[RamCares]

I sent a conversation to Ram Cares, but have not heard back from them. Is there a trick to better communication with Ram
Cares? Should I make a phone call?

Hi moparharn,
I apologize for our delay in response. I have responded to your private message and look forward to assisting you further!
Alex
Ram Social Care Specialist

 

[MQQSE]

You guys have to remember that people come in for all kinds of knit picking and think a computer connection to the OBD is going to solve or improve their complaint. A lot of times a flash or update can make something else not perform correctly and now the dealership has a problem on their hands. Do your homework and make sure you do in fact have an issue that has been resolved by an update and several of those updates have been found to be safe and successful. I've seen people come in and say, "I want this update" and it gets done and then their fuel mileage drops from 17 to 10 MPG. They come back and want the update removed...and you cannot remove an update. Anyway, be mindful of the the fact that updates are not a perfect electronic fix and a lot of times they can start a whole new problem.

 

[Kaos]

My dealer would not perform any other PCM updates. I just had it in for the update for the AC. Unless I complain about any other issues. Has anyone ever heard of this? They said it’s RAM corporate policy. I thought I saw other people on here posting it fixed a lot of random issues.

I'm having issues with my brakes my dealer won't do anything either. I recorded the loud screeching and shaking noise, than they came back and said you have 14,000 miles on it your out of warranty. I love my truck but hate Rams service. I have had it into the dealer 3 times.

 

[duke2001]

I'm having issues with my brakes my dealer won't do anything either. I recorded the loud screeching and shaking noise, than they came back and said you have 14,000 miles on it your out of warranty. I love my truck but hate Rams service. I have had it into the dealer 3 times.

How can you be out of warranty? Your factory warranty last for three years or 36000 miles, whichever comes first!

 

[VaderRebel]

How can you be out of warranty? Your factory warranty last for three years or 36000 miles, whichever comes first!

Was going to ask the same thing... but then thought maybe he was already at 50000 miles. It's possible if he drives constantly.

 

[duke2001]

Was going to ask the same thing... but then thought maybe he was already at 50000 miles. It's possible if he drives constantly.

Time to trade in for a 2020 then?

 

[VaderRebel]

How can you be out of warranty? Your factory warranty last for three years or 36000 miles, whichever comes first!

I was thinking the same thing... then thought it's possible he's already at 50000 miles. My boss did 40000 in 16 months... he wasn't happy when his air ride died in his second winter, just out of warranty.

 

[KRField]

How can you be out of warranty? Your factory warranty last for three years or 36000 miles, whichever comes first!

Warranty on brakes is only 12k.


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[Bram2019]

The problem with updating a module is FCA will not pay for it unless there is a direct complaint. If the dealer updates the module, he will not be paid to do it without a direct complaint. FCA trys to claim you may create a problem. That is bull, because every vehicle sold comes with the latest software available when built. Some updates are mandatory like recalls, and RRTs. All other ones FCA may or may not pay for it. So you see the problem is not the dealer. The dealer needs someone to pay them, either FCA or you. Some flashes take 20 minutes to flash as long as dealer connect is functioning ok. Others longer. If the shop works on 100 cars a day, and flashed them all, you can do the math. FCA certainly has.

 

[RamCares]

I'm having issues with my brakes my dealer won't do anything either. I recorded the loud screeching and shaking noise, than they came back and said you have 14,000 miles on it your out of warranty. I love my truck but hate Rams service. I have had it into the dealer 3 times.

Hi Kaos,
We are sorry to hear you have been experiencing this concern. If you would like to be connected to a Specialist, feel free to private message us!
Laura
Ram Social Care Specialist

 

[sporteus]

So, this situation with the software updates is really bugging me (so I'm going to rant about it; you've been warned). I can't find the link, but I read last night that FCA put out a company wide mandate that updates are not to be performed unless there are symptoms cited in a TSB which indicates to update (usually to "the latest version" I might add). That just makes no sense to me, at all.

If I never updated my laptop, I'd be running some god-awful version of operating system and probably would have been hacked several times over by now because of the security holes. But hey, wait until your hacked, and then we'll perform the update. WTF?!!

Software updates are a fact of life. That's actually why software exists, so it can be updated independent of the hardware. I can remember having to switch out BIOS chips to upgrade before they had EEPROMs. But I digress.

If a software update is available, then I expect that software update has been tested and quality checked. To say they'll only upgrade it if you have those symptoms is folly. They fixed something, I'd like to avoid that something and stay current. If they're introducing bugs in these updates, then there is a QA problem they need to address. Yes, the software can be a safety issue if it doesn't work correctly. But, if there's a safety issue with the software, then it shouldn't be released to a single consumer. So I don't buy the safety angle for not doing updates. If that is truly the concern, then we should all be afraid.

My other thought that occurs to me is what damage might happen to the mechanical parts if the software if faulty and not updated. So, if there is a TCM update that prevents a hard shift or gear selection issue, if you don't get that update is your transmission going to wear faster than someone that has the update? Oh ya, then then dealers make money on those repairs eventually. Never mind, what was I thinking?!!

My wish list (for all vehicles):

1. TSBs are made pubic and viewable by consumers.
2. Software/Firmware versions and change logs made public and viewable by consumers
3. Vehicles provide an easy way to see what versions of software are installed
4. The auto industry gets off their collective @55 and creates a way for consumers to perform their own updates. Really, we got this.
5. If not consumers, then there is a new business for someone. A laptop and some connectors to update vehicle software. No need to bring the vehicle to a dealer, the person would come to you, for a modest price.

Stuff like this just bugs the crud out of me because its greed driven. Not what's the right thing to do for our product or the consumer, but how can create a situation so we make more money off the consumer that just paid us $40-70K for this vehicle. Disgusting.

OK, I feel better...kind of.

 

[mike_ct]

do the diablosport calibration updates use the latest revisions? Are there any hptuner files we can do ourselves? What about a a J2534 tool?

 

[Bram2019]

So, this situation with the software updates is really bugging me (so I'm going to rant about it; you've been warned). I can't find the link, but I read last night that FCA put out a company wide mandate that updates are not to be performed unless there are symptoms cited in a TSB which indicates to update (usually to "the latest version" I might add). That just makes no sense to me, at all.

If I never updated my laptop, I'd be running some god-awful version of operating system and probably would have been hacked several times over by now because of the security holes. But hey, wait until your hacked, and then we'll perform the update. WTF?!!

Software updates are a fact of life. That's actually why software exists, so it can be updated independent of the hardware. I can remember having to switch out BIOS chips to upgrade before they had EEPROMs. But I digress.

If a software update is available, then I expect that software update has been tested and quality checked. To say they'll only upgrade it if you have those symptoms is folly. They fixed something, I'd like to avoid that something and stay current. If they're introducing bugs in these updates, then there is a QA problem they need to address. Yes, the software can be a safety issue if it doesn't work correctly. But, if there's a safety issue with the software, then it shouldn't be released to a single consumer. So I don't buy the safety angle for not doing updates. If that is truly the concern, then we should all be afraid.

My other thought that occurs to me is what damage might happen to the mechanical parts if the software if faulty and not updated. So, if there is a TCM update that prevents a hard shift or gear selection issue, if you don't get that update is your transmission going to wear faster than someone that has the update? Oh ya, then then dealers make money on those repairs eventually. Never mind, what was I thinking?!!

My wish list (for all vehicles):

1. TSBs are made pubic and viewable by consumers.
2. Software/Firmware versions and change logs made public and viewable by consumers
3. Vehicles provide an easy way to see what versions of software are installed
4. The auto industry gets off their collective @55 and creates a way for consumers to perform their own updates. Really, we got this.
5. If not consumers, then there is a new business for someone. A laptop and some connectors to update vehicle software. No need to bring the vehicle to a dealer, the person would come to you, for a modest price.

Stuff like this just bugs the crud out of me because its greed driven. Not what's the right thing to do for our product or the consumer, but how can create a situation so we make more money off the consumer that just paid us $40-70K for this vehicle. Disgusting.

OK, I feel better...kind of.

The auto manufacturers will never allow you to update yourself. Who pays for the module when you trash it by doing something wrong. Maybe an over the air update. Currently they do this with radios and radios are getting trashed. If tsbs were made public, every person would flood the dealers and want unneeded updates. Who pays for that? The other issue is the dealers pay a crazy amount of money for a site licence that allows them to do the updates. Are you willing to pay that. Some updates are enhancements. Are you willing to pay for that. What I find if it is free, the consumer wants it. If they are required to pay, they pass. Safety updates will always be available in the form of a recall. At the end of the day it is still whether the manufacturer bean counters want to pay for something. They don't, unless there is a complaint. Therefore, unless the car owner does not complain, it does not get fixed. If there are a million cars out there, and each car was to get a $40.00 software update because you want it, you can do the math.

 

[brian42]

My dealership will update my software...if I pay for it. In fact I got a coupon to have all of my software updated for about $100 because I'm a 'loyal customer'. The coupon even states that you need to have the latest software for your vehicle to operate at its best and at peak performance.

The dealership will only update things for "free" (charge FCA for it) under my warranty if there is an actual problem (that's the only way they get paid to do it). I was initially upset about that (I paid $45K for this truck and can't get software updates?!??!) but have come to realize that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just because there's an update doesn't mean my truck is going to be any better. An update is out to fix an issue. If I don't have the issue then I don't need that extra coding that could do more harm than good. Yes sometimes there are feature updates, but those are few and far between compared to fixes.

I had lots of custom parts and tuning on my last truck. Once you go down that rabbit hole there's a lot of attention that is needed to maintain everything balanced and running well.

I spent a lot of time in the driveway tweaking, adjusting, replacing, checking, and programming. That was fun while I had it (11 years) but now I just want to drive my truck and enjoy the ride.

As long as my truck is running to my standards I'll stick with the software I have.

Just my .02

 

[SSN765]

All TSBs are public knowledge and can be viewed and printed from the Gov't website. See threads in the TSB and warranty fourm. They mandated all TSB will be published. I print them out when I visit the dealer with ahhh issues yeah that's the ticket....

 

[brian42]

All TSBs are public knowledge and can be viewed and printed from the Gov't website. See threads in the TSB and warranty fourm. They mandated all TSB will be published. I print them out when I visit the dealer with ahhh issues yeah that's the ticket....

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