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Clayton Offroad 2.5" Jeep Gladiator Springs on 2020 Rebel

Techguy2000

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Sure, I can take some pictures this weekend.

In the meantime I got weighed on a CAT scale:
Weight is for the 2020 truck in signature, has 1253lbs in payload on sticker. The MFT is 75lbs and bed utility ~25lbs or so, so if you do not have those options, then that plus the spare 35 I have in the bed right now (96lbs) would be close to the incremental weight of your decked system (I read they are 200lbs?), FYI.

7100lbs GVWR-1253lb payload = 5,847 lbs base weight from factory
Total weight on scale = 6,440 lbs (3,500 front and 2,940 rear) which is 593lbs heavier than delivered and 660lbs left on official payload for family and gear.

Rough Measurements of add-ons after truck options:
173lbs for me
40lbs total for 2x car seats
64lbs (16x4) = went from 50lb per tire wildpeaks to 66lb 35in wildpeaks each, stock wheels
96lbs = had extra 30lb rim and 66lb tire in bed
180 lbs fiberglass topper
40lbs dethloff skidplate
0 lbs fox front and rear plus clayton coils (I'm sure this adds some weight but negligible)
= 593 lbs
 

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mk2019ORP

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Sure, I can take some pictures this weekend.

In the meantime I got weighed on a CAT scale:
Weight is for the 2020 truck in signature, has 1253lbs in payload on sticker. The MFT is 75lbs and bed utility ~25lbs or so, so if you do not have those options, then that plus the spare 35 I have in the bed right now (96lbs) would be close to the incremental weight of your decked system (I read they are 200lbs?), FYI.

7100lbs GVWR-1253lb payload = 5,847 lbs base weight from factory
Total weight on scale = 6,440 lbs (3,540 front and 2,720 rear) which is 593lbs heavier than delivered and 660lbs left on official payload for family and gear.

Rough Measurements of add-ons after truck options:
173lbs for me
40lbs total for 2x car seats
64lbs (16x4) = went from 50lb per tire wildpeaks to 66lb 35in wildpeaks each, stock wheels
96lbs = had extra 30lb rim and 66lb tire in bed
180 lbs fiberglass topper
40lbs dethloff skidplate
0 lbs fox front and rear plus clayton coils (I'm sure this adds some weight but negligible)
= 593 lbs

FYI I paid $2.50 for this weigh as I was an idiot and weighed first with an empty tank, then went back 10min later and reweighed after gassing up.
View attachment 73128
I must say that this was completely unexpected but super helpful. Thanks for posting this response with the weight approximates. As I do not have the MFT, BUG nor a 35” spare in the bed, I would say they are comparable to the overall weight of the decked system as you speculated. I do carry about an additional 100lbs give or take in various tools, recovery gear and work equipment in the drawers though. Topper weight I would expect to be on par or at least similar to yours. I don’t have an official weight loaded to compare to yours...but given differences in weight between us (I’m about 215) only one car seat, additional 33lbs approximate in tire weight (just over 58lbs) and me not having the dethloff skid plate, I’d say we’re comparable overall. My rear sagged about 1.25” overall from additional weight, leaving me at about 38.75” give or take in the rear. I’m currently sitting at about 38” even in the front leaving me about 3/4” rake fully loaded. It looks nearly level, but I wouldn’t mind adding a little more rake overall while bringing up the front some, and I may add bags to help account for some of the weight. While this is not my first truck, this is my first full suspension overhaul and I am trying to really do my homework. I’d rather get it right the first time if I can. Thanks again!
 

Dadamets

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Anyone interested in selling their rear ORP springs. I would need them shipped to 43021. Send me a pm with a price shipped. Thanks!
 

Mclovinnnnn

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Sure, I can take some pictures this weekend.

In the meantime I got weighed on a CAT scale:
Weight is for the 2020 truck in signature, has 1253lbs in payload on sticker. The MFT is 75lbs and bed utility ~25lbs or so, so if you do not have those options, then that plus the spare 35 I have in the bed right now (96lbs) would be close to the incremental weight of your decked system (I read they are 200lbs?), FYI.

7100lbs GVWR-1253lb payload = 5,847 lbs base weight from factory
Total weight on scale = 6,440 lbs (3,540 front and 2,720 rear) which is 593lbs heavier than delivered and 660lbs left on official payload for family and gear.

Rough Measurements of add-ons after truck options:
173lbs for me
40lbs total for 2x car seats
64lbs (16x4) = went from 50lb per tire wildpeaks to 66lb 35in wildpeaks each, stock wheels
96lbs = had extra 30lb rim and 66lb tire in bed
180 lbs fiberglass topper
40lbs dethloff skidplate
0 lbs fox front and rear plus clayton coils (I'm sure this adds some weight but negligible)
= 593 lbs

FYI I paid $2.50 for this weigh as I was an idiot and weighed first with an empty tank, then went back 10min later and reweighed after gassing up.
View attachment 73128
Wow that’s a pretty heavy truck! I have a fully loaded Big Horn Crew 6’4 bed 4x4 with 4” lift, 35s on 20x10, a heavy bed cover, and some other minor weight mods and my truck with me (175lbs) was 5975!
 

antwon412

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Installed my Clayton 2.5s and Bilstien 5160s Saturday.
Great combo
Hope to finish up the 6112s up front tonight.
 

spark

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Installed my Clayton 2.5s and Bilstien 5160s Saturday.
Great combo
Hope to finish up the 6112s up front tonight.

How far extended are the 5160s at rest? I thought I read that they were only for up 2 inches of lift in the rear.
 

antwon412

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How far extended are the 5160s at rest? I thought I read that they were only for up 2 inches of lift in the rear.
Well. That’s a great point.

I was looking at it as - my truck is stock. It has a 1.5” lift so these shocks, being good for 0”-2” should be fine.

However, if Bilstien looks at it as the Rebel being +1” then the stock Rebel would fit in their lift parameters, but a lifted one would exceed it.

I will have to contact Bilstein and see what they say. I have only driven it for a mile or so, but it felt fine. But that is much different then using it offroad.
 

Ram1500rsm

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To give you an example of the versatility of these Clayton springs since RC have released the 6" vertex shocks for the DT RAM 1500 you could run these RC 6" 2.5 shocks with these springs https://www.roughcountry.com/dodge-vertex-shocks-699021.html?find=2020-dodge-ram-1500-4wd-740521
Their specs per RC are 29.33" extended, 17.75" compressed.
I was running custom 28.75" extended Kings with my Claytons springs and in my testing i found i could open them up to 29.75" with the springs still seated in full..My new King shocks are 28.5", but almost 1" shorter on compression compared to my 2nd version otherwise i've have needed 3" bumpstops. I have 2" bumpstop extenstions and i didn't want to lose 1" more inch at full stuff.

So those of you with Fox shocks could talk to Fox and have them spec a custom lenght similar to RC. in my case all i had to do was to extend my brake line brackets, also the Diff in my 4th gen truck looked bad at more than 29". Dirt King Long travel rear bypasses for the 4th gen RAM 1500 are set to 28.5" extended, and they also indicated that should be the max in our case so the diff pinion angle wouldn't be compromised. I had King specd me a new set of rear 2.5 shocks at 28.5" extended, min they could make them shorter was 19" so i went with that. You guys could ask Fox and see if they can make a 29" extended, what would the max compressed ?

With those RC 6" shocks for example, you'll need to extended your brake lines, (bracket extension, but i don't know how long guys can go before you need new brake lines, in my 4th gen that is 29" max, or longer brake lines), and you'll also need bumpstop extensions.

Fox 2.5 specs for the current 0-2" shocks you guys run is 25.65 extended, 16.85 compressed.
The 6" RC ones are basically 3.7" longer on extension, 1" longer on compression so you can make a calucation on how much bumpstop extension you'll need to be able to run the shock or a similar one. always measure of ocurse before shelling out the money ?
I tested with Rancho shocks before commiting to the expensive ones :)

Have fun.
 

merdon1332000

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TDLR: The Clayton offroad 2.5 lift springs DO fit a 2020 Rebel

What I tried to accomplish: I recently added Fox 2.5 shocks in the front and rear. The ORP/Rebel shocks give 1" in the back, but the Fox coilovers allow for me to go to 3" inches in the front. This means I needed an extra inch in the rear. Also, the rear shocks are OK for 0-2" of lift.

What I got: The shocks fit beautifully. The ride on street is great (and wife approved)!

Measurements:

View attachment 70815


Spring Comparison.

The springs:
View attachment 70703

View attachment 70704

The install: The process was exceptionally smooth. The drivers side was significantly more challenging than the passenger side. I think this was due to a few factors. First, I started on the drivers side which meant I was learning as I went. Second, Since the springs were an extra 1.5" longer than stock, getting the axle down that far was challenging. After disconnecting the sway bar, I started to hit what I thought was a mount. I later realized after a lot of stress, that It was actually hitting the skid plate. I took out one bolt on the skid plate and wedged a small piece of wood in there to lower it and I was off to the races.

Pro tip: To push the rotor down and get the spring seated, I used my forearm for pressure while pushing the spring. This hurt like hell. I decided to put a set of knee pads I use for home projects around my elbows/forearms and use them to push. It worked like a charm and saved my forearms.

Only potential issue: The lift was a little more than I hoped for. Now I have about 1.5" higher than my stock rebel or 2.5" over a stock, non rebel. My concern is for my new shocks. Does anyone have input on if pushing them past the 2" range will damage them in the long run? I plan to call Fox on Monday to A) see if I can get a longer shaft or B) run them without concern. I don't plan to adjust the fronts until I figure out if the rear is ok.
I thought the fox only gave a 2.5" lift?
 

seribralcrow

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First real time testing these out at speed (40mph over hills, jumps, washboards). They are incredible. They took everything I gave them and asked for more. The rear springs handled really well. Overall I could not be happier

Two observations. I probably need extended bump stops for the rear. I don’t know that for sure, but I need to investigate and will report back.

Second, coming off a hill into a rut, I bottomed out the front bumper skid plate. The front license plate took most of the damage luckily. I think I need to address the approach angle. I would love recommendations on a bumper. I like the ADD stealth, but have no desire to get a light bar right now. My kids are little and I haven’t been out past dark in years haha.
 

GeorgiaJA

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Well. That’s a great point.

I was looking at it as - my truck is stock. It has a 1.5” lift so these shocks, being good for 0”-2” should be fine.

However, if Bilstien looks at it as the Rebel being +1” then the stock Rebel would fit in their lift parameters, but a lifted one would exceed it.

I will have to contact Bilstein and see what they say. I have only driven it for a mile or so, but it felt fine. But that is much different then using it offroad.
Did you ever hear back from Bilstein? I'm thinking about doing the same setup (6112 in front at position 7, 5160's in rear with clayton 2.5" springs). I'll have about 600 lbs in the bed at all times so I figure I won't have 2.5" of gain in the rear.

2020 Ram 1500 Laramie ORP
 

raysvrx11

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Did you ever hear back from Bilstein? I'm thinking about doing the same setup (6112 in front at position 7, 5160's in rear with clayton 2.5" springs). I'll have about 600 lbs in the bed at all times so I figure I won't have 2.5" of gain in the rear.

2020 Ram 1500 Laramie ORP
Would like to know as well hopefully we get an answer from antwon412
 

antwon412

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Did you ever hear back from Bilstein? I'm thinking about doing the same setup (6112 in front at position 7, 5160's in rear with clayton 2.5" springs). I'll have about 600 lbs in the bed at all times so I figure I won't have 2.5" of gain in the rear.

2020 Ram 1500 Laramie ORP
I never contacted Bilstien about it.
Slipped my mind to be honest.
I did some off roading with them and had zero issues.
 

JCLEMONS22

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To give you an example of the versatility of these Clayton springs since RC have released the 6" vertex shocks for the DT RAM 1500 you could run these RC 6" 2.5 shocks with these springs https://www.roughcountry.com/dodge-vertex-shocks-699021.html?find=2020-dodge-ram-1500-4wd-740521
Their specs per RC are 29.33" extended, 17.75" compressed.
I was running custom 28.75" extended Kings with my Claytons springs and in my testing i found i could open them up to 29.75" with the springs still seated in full..My new King shocks are 28.5", but almost 1" shorter on compression compared to my 2nd version otherwise i've have needed 3" bumpstops. I have 2" bumpstop extenstions and i didn't want to lose 1" more inch at full stuff.

So those of you with Fox shocks could talk to Fox and have them spec a custom lenght similar to RC. in my case all i had to do was to extend my brake line brackets, also the Diff in my 4th gen truck looked bad at more than 29". Dirt King Long travel rear bypasses for the 4th gen RAM 1500 are set to 28.5" extended, and they also indicated that should be the max in our case so the diff pinion angle wouldn't be compromised. I had King specd me a new set of rear 2.5 shocks at 28.5" extended, min they could make them shorter was 19" so i went with that. You guys could ask Fox and see if they can make a 29" extended, what would the max compressed ?

With those RC 6" shocks for example, you'll need to extended your brake lines, (bracket extension, but i don't know how long guys can go before you need new brake lines, in my 4th gen that is 29" max, or longer brake lines), and you'll also need bumpstop extensions.

Fox 2.5 specs for the current 0-2" shocks you guys run is 25.65 extended, 16.85 compressed.
The 6" RC ones are basically 3.7" longer on extension, 1" longer on compression so you can make a calucation on how much bumpstop extension you'll need to be able to run the shock or a similar one. always measure of ocurse before shelling out the money ?
I tested with Rancho shocks before commiting to the expensive ones :)

Have fun.
Hey peeps, just joined the forum...facebook guys arent really much help. This thread is by far the coolest thread ive seen, most informative. I will say im a little lost, I hope you guys dont mind me asking a couple questions for the rear. I would like to swap to claytons 3.5 coils. Currently stock with kings 0-3 on rear, 0-3 on front coilovers. I have been through icons dual rate yada yada...ended up taking them out. explain later. Is the 3.5" a true 3.5 lift of just under? If i do 3.5 coils, does the relocation bracket help for ride quality, needed? I will need to get extended king shocks, just unsure how long..waiting on rep to email me back., sway bar links i will get extended. Anything im missing? coils, links, shocks, relocation bracket?, brake line extension bracket? thank you so much in advance
 

Ram1500rsm

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Hey peeps, just joined the forum...facebook guys arent really much help. This thread is by far the coolest thread ive seen, most informative. I will say im a little lost, I hope you guys dont mind me asking a couple questions for the rear. I would like to swap to claytons 3.5 coils. Currently stock with kings 0-3 on rear, 0-3 on front coilovers. I have been through icons dual rate yada yada...ended up taking them out. explain later. Is the 3.5" a true 3.5 lift of just under? If i do 3.5 coils, does the relocation bracket help for ride quality, needed? I will need to get extended king shocks, just unsure how long..waiting on rep to email me back., sway bar links i will get extended. Anything im missing? coils, links, shocks, relocation bracket?, brake line extension bracket? thank you so much in advance
The Clayton 2.5" coils will lift your truck butt 2.5" if you didn't have the ORP package. 3.5" coils will lift 3.5".
If you have ORP then substract 1" to the overall height, so 1.5" on top of what you had with ORP with the 2.5 coils, 2.5" with the 3.5" coils.

If you end up with the 3.5" you will want do to a TB relocation bracket, or adjustable rear TB or both.

2.5" coils will work with 29.75" extended shocks max. add 1" more if you go with the 3.5" coils. You also want to make sure your pinion angle is good with the droop. if you go with 3.5" you may need adjustable rear control arms to dial your pinion angle and possibly extend your lowers just a tad.
in my 4th gen truck max extended shock is 29" with the stock length arms which work fine for the 2" lift i have now, past 29" the pinion would start looking funny at full droop. that's the reason i run 28.75" on my rear shocks. I'm basically running 4-5" rear lift shocks with only 1.75-2" rear lift :)

Have fun.
 
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Ram1500rsm

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Since most of the Clayton info is this thread i thought it'll be a good idea to leave this here as well for others to see.
If you're getting a clacking noise with your Clayton springs is because the dead coils might be hitting each other when the spring compresses, you hit a bump, or a pothole etc, etc. It's kind of a nature with long progressive coil springs. Some people may experience this some others may not, trucks are not created equal. but it's a super easy fix.

I've had that situation with Icon 1.5" springs and with the Claytons as well. My truck runs heavy in the back at all times (500lbs of weight in the bed, recovery gear, steel bumper, swing out rear gate carrier, Full spare, etc etc), and when travelling i tend to add more weight in there as well. Our travel may involve miles of washboard roads, sugarish sand washes or mountain dirt roads with rocks etc, so i need a suspension able to whistand that stuff and coils that can carry weight but also coils that feel nice when the truck bed is not loaded to the roof :)
2020-07-21_04-46-31 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Because of this the soft portion of the coils may hit each other if you get to experience the clack noise, you'll see the marks on the springs if that was the case. If you hear some noise and it happens to bother you all you need to do is add some sort of coil spring insulator.

You can buy for example Eibach spring insulators, eibach CS5002L, 1 per coil
2021-02-26_01-36-27 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Then cut 3 or 4 pieces and fit them in there as needed. the sleeves come with a glue inside so make sure to fit your pieces where you want them the first time, i tried to push that first SOB at the top towards the inside and it won't move. I can remove it and fit another piece but i'm not that anal haha.
2021-02-26_01-36-51 by RAM RSM, on Flickr


Have fun.
 

raysvrx11

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Since most of the Clayton info is this thread i thought it'll be a good idea to leave this here as well for others to see.
If you're getting a clacking noise with your Clayton springs is because the dead coils might be hitting each other when the spring compresses, you hit a bump, or a pothole etc, etc. It's kind of a nature with long progressive coil springs. Some people may experience this some others may not, trucks are not created equal. but it's a super easy fix.

I've had that situation with Icon 1.5" springs and with the Claytons as well. My truck runs heavy in the back at all times (500lbs of weight in the bed, recovery gear, steel bumper, swing out rear gate carrier, Full spare, etc etc), and when travelling i tend to add more weight in there as well. Our travel may involve miles of washboard roads, sugarish sand washes or mountain dirt roads with rocks etc, so i need a suspension able to whistand that stuff and coils that can carry weight but also coils that feel nice when the truck bed is not loaded to the roof :)
2020-07-21_04-46-31 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Because of this the soft portion of the coils may hit each other if you get to experience the clack noise, you'll see the marks on the springs if that was the case. If you hear some noise and it happens to bother you all you need to do is add some sort of coil spring insulator.

You can buy for example Eibach spring insulators, eibach CS5002L, 1 per coil
2021-02-26_01-36-27 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Then cut 3 or 4 pieces and fit them in there as needed. the sleeves come with a glue inside so make sure to fit your pieces where you want them the first time, i tried to push that first SOB at the top towards the inside and it won't move. I can remove it and fit another piece but i'm not that anal haha.
2021-02-26_01-36-51 by RAM RSM, on Flickr


Have fun.
Thank you soo much Ram1500RSM Im going to be doing this. Mine as well is a bit "Thicc" in the rear and the noise been driving me crazy. Now I'm going to try this!!
 

CaptainCJ35

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Since most of the Clayton info is this thread i thought it'll be a good idea to leave this here as well for others to see.
If you're getting a clacking noise with your Clayton springs is because the dead coils might be hitting each other when the spring compresses, you hit a bump, or a pothole etc, etc. It's kind of a nature with long progressive coil springs. Some people may experience this some others may not, trucks are not created equal. but it's a super easy fix.

I've had that situation with Icon 1.5" springs and with the Claytons as well. My truck runs heavy in the back at all times (500lbs of weight in the bed, recovery gear, steel bumper, swing out rear gate carrier, Full spare, etc etc), and when travelling i tend to add more weight in there as well. Our travel may involve miles of washboard roads, sugarish sand washes or mountain dirt roads with rocks etc, so i need a suspension able to whistand that stuff and coils that can carry weight but also coils that feel nice when the truck bed is not loaded to the roof :)
2020-07-21_04-46-31 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Because of this the soft portion of the coils may hit each other if you get to experience the clack noise, you'll see the marks on the springs if that was the case. If you hear some noise and it happens to bother you all you need to do is add some sort of coil spring insulator.

You can buy for example Eibach spring insulators, eibach CS5002L, 1 per coil
2021-02-26_01-36-27 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Then cut 3 or 4 pieces and fit them in there as needed. the sleeves come with a glue inside so make sure to fit your pieces where you want them the first time, i tried to push that first SOB at the top towards the inside and it won't move. I can remove it and fit another piece but i'm not that anal haha.
2021-02-26_01-36-51 by RAM RSM, on Flickr


Have fun.
So are you getting a bit of coil binding because the payload of Gladiator is a little less than a 1500? I wonder if Clayton will make a uprated version for 1500's if there's enough demand.
 

Ram1500rsm

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So are you getting a bit of coil binding because the payload of Gladiator is a little less than a 1500? I wonder if Clayton will make a uprated version for 1500's if there's enough demand.
Doubt it. The Icon 1.5" are RAM specific and i had exactly the same issue.
I had the same issue with progressive springs in my BMW. Just the nature on some springs especially when they're longer and have progressive rates. Icon doesn't list specs but Clayton does. From simple observations we think Icon rates are literally super close if not the same as Clayton's. The stock RAM 4th gen coils have a rate around 200-205lbs/inch, i'm almost possitive the 5th gen springs are the same thing, ORP's seem to be around 220 if i remember form watching others have weight while measuring the sag.

From the Pic provided by seribral you can see how close the upper portion of the Clayton coil is from each other. the 1st 2-3 bound in the coils are dead in our case, 3-4 and 5 might touch as the suspension cycles and more likely where you'll be placing your spring insulators as needed.
1617763562986.png
the springs 1st rate is only 159lbs. Couple of years ago in 2018 when i bought the Icon 1.5" springs Icon used to advertised their springs were 25% softer than stock, and 75% stiffer on heaviest rate. They have changed their verbiage i guess believing nobody will ever find out :) Take the numbers i posted from the 4th gen RAM rates and a simple calculation gives you a ball park to know what Icon rates are more or less, taking 203lbs/inch as a reference for stockers.
25% rate softer than stock is about 152lbs/inch
75% firmer is about 355lbs/inch

Clayton specs from Clayton website, in our case the most interesting numbers are 2nd and 3rd rate since this is where your truck will be unloaded or loaded.
Product Features:
  • Triple Rate
  • Free Length = 21.500" +/-.25
  • Sold as a pair
  • Spring Rate 1 = 159 lbs/in
  • Spring Rate 2 = 280 lbs/in
  • Spring Rate 3 = 360 lbs/in
  • Powder Coated Black
  • MADE IN THE USA!
If you get Icons or Claytons, the dead coils will be touching each other. the idea is that you'll be riding somewhere in between the first and 2nd rate of the spring without any load so you don't get to experience a harsh spring rate unloaded. the more weight you add the firmer these type of springs will get. Right out of the bat these springs can provide more weight support than anything you can buy from Mopar. Don't let the Gladiator platform scare you into thinking just cause they're Gladiator springs they won't support any weight. These are not stock Gladiator springs, and they're in fact more HD than Mopar and most RAM specific springs you can buy today for the 5th gen RAM.

BDS 3" or 6" springs for example are 240lbs/inch. Checking Tuff truck specific springs., they offer 10% firmer, 25% firmer and 50% firmer options. Icon or Clayton are 75% firmer (heaviest rate). In tuff Truck defense, they have linear rates, so if you have a work truck and you're not looking for lift and wanted stock level for example after dumping say 1000lbs in you bed you can have achieve with certain TT springs. ideal for work trucks.

Claytons won't be for everybody. picture yourself wanting to have a longer spring that can suport longer shocks, provide 1.5" on top of what you get with ORP;s while giving you more weight support with less sag after lift. That's the market for these springs and there is nothing in RAM world that provides that at the moment. You can go higher with a big lift and 3 or 5" coils from BDS or Zone. Tuff Truck are shorter than even stock Non-ORP coils with i think the exception of one option. Icons are shorter than ORP. Claytons are longer than ORP. Sure you can get cheapy 1" spacers with your ORP springs that won't give you more weight support in your Rebel for example, especially if your idea is to match your Fox or King extended travel 2.5" CO's lift with a roof rack, RTT Tent, steel bumpers etc etc and still keep 1" more lift than ORP with 500-600lbs of pemanent rear weigth. You still have the old options like air bags or firmer bumptop jounces etc so there are choices out there for everybody. For $269 Claytons are really a no brainer for some.

I doubt Clayton will ever make a RAM specific coil, but who knows maybe if enough people ask for it they might change that :) right at this moment you’ll simply lose the ability to get a RAM specific spacer back there cause Claytons are a tad wider than stock in the upper portion. The lower portion where the spring seats is exactly the same. If you needed an extra inch on top of 2.5 you’ll get their 3.5” coil.

Have fun.
 
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