Best Oil for Hemi "Tick"

[silver billet]

Alright, so we are all going to do this then?

0W-20 full synthetic every 5K miles is your best bet for longevity on these engines.

There are some engines that will have bad pins that lead to lifter failure, that's going to happen to 5-10% of these engines regardless of what oil you use. But during the most critical time of engine lubrication, the cold start, you want that lubrication to reach those pins as soon as possible.

I thought we had gotten past this Rebel, a 0w-20 does not reach areas any faster than a 0w-30. That's not how a positive displacement oil pump works, and even so a 0w-20 pumps the same as a 0w-30, that's the entire point of the "0w" piece of the oil.

 

[SD Rebel]

I thought we had gotten past this Rebel, a 0w-20 does not reach areas any faster than a 0w-30. That's not how a positive displacement oil pump works, and even so a 0w-20 pumps the same as a 0w-30, that's the entire point of the "0w" piece of the oil.

Sure on cold start (which is why I mentioned the 0W over 5W). I was referring to 5W-20 vs 0W-20 at that point. Most of our trucks prior have 5W-20 requirement, we should all move to 0W-20.

But sure, I am also talking about the whole temp range as well in regards to 20W vs 30W, which is better during a low pressure idle in reaching and lubricating those pins, say at 29 psi at hot idle?

20W or 30W when at full operational temp, at low pressure, which is the better oil knowing the limitations of the Hemi's lubrication system? Thicker isn't better at preventing lifter issues is my point, just ask the 6.4L guys with lifter issues who have 40W from the factory.

 

[raygun9]

I will throw out there, since we are all talking about it, that I was one of the folks that believed a ticker oil would work better but that was until I watched a few of Reignited - Cycle and Automotive videos on youtube and how he switched over to the hellcat SRT 6.4 oil pump on the 5.7 which was cool, but the main concept that stuck with me (at least I think it was his video) was that the diameter of the oil pump feeding the oil to the engine would be letting less oil in if it was ticker and in turn not really helping anything. It was either his channel or one of the amsoil videos on viscosity.

 

[SD Rebel]

I will throw out there, since we are all talking about it, that I was one of the folks that believed a ticker oil would work better but that was until I watched a few of Reignited - Cycle and Automotive videos on youtube and how he switched over to the hellcat SRT 6.4 oil pump on the 5.7 which was cool, but the main concept that stuck with me (at least I think it was his video) was that the diameter of the oil pump feeding the oil to the engine would be letting less oil in if it was ticker and in turn not really helping anything. It was either his channel or one of the amsoil videos on viscosity.

We will go round and round on this, we all stand strong to what we believe, but in the end, none of us have definite proof to back it up completely. But that is cool, lets all put our 2 cents in and let the OP decide on what to do.

 

[silver billet]

Sure on cold start (which is why I mentioned the 0W over 5W). I was referring to 5W-20 vs 0W-20 at that point. Most of our trucks prior have 5W-20 requirement, we should all move to 0W-20.

But sure, I am also talking about the whole temp range as well as well in regards to 20W vs 30W, which is better during a low pressure idle in reaching and lubricating those pins, say at 29 psi at hot idle?

20W or 30W when at full operational temp, at low pressure, which is the better oil? Thicker isn't better at preventing lifter issues, just ask the 6.4L guys with lifter issues who have 40W from the factory.

A 0w gives you 5 degrees colder starting temps vs the 5w. You will not find many people that absolutely need the 0w because the extra 5 degrees is that critically important. Alaska and Manitoba/Alberta in the winter would be good candidates. I have no problem running 0w-30 though. It's a good choice if you run your oil longer than 12 months.

We don't have low pressure at idle. My truck has 40psi and had at least 30 on factory oil. Trucks with variable displacement oil pumps target about 5 to 10 psi, you don't need lots of pressure at idle.

You really need to research what a positive displacement oil pump is, there is no difference in the volume of oil being pushed through the engine when all you're doing is increasing the viscosity. The pressure changes, not the volume.

The higher viscosity oil is not recommended for combatting hemi tick, it's recommended for any truck that works hard (towing, hauling etc). Any engine that sees high temps needs to run the 30 or 40 weight oils. Combatting hemi tick requires a higher quality oil, but the increase in viscosity is just common sense; higher HT/HS, more film strength, more protection.

 

[SD Rebel]

A 0w gives you 5 degrees colder starting temps vs the 5w. You will not find many people that absolutely need the 0w because the extra 5 degrees is that critically important. Alaska and Manitoba/Alberta in the winter would be good candidates. I have no problem running 0w-30 though. It's a good choice if you run your oil longer than 12 months.

We don't have low pressure at idle. My truck has 40psi and had at least 30 on factory oil. Trucks with variable displacement oil pumps target about 5 to 10 psi, you don't need lots of pressure at idle.

You really need to research what a positive displacement oil pump is, there is no difference in the volume of oil being pushed through the engine when all you're doing is increasing the viscosity. The pressure changes, not the volume.

The higher viscosity oil is not recommended for combatting hemi tick, it's recommended for any truck that works hard (towing, hauling etc). Any engine that sees high temps needs to run the 30 or 40 weight oils. Combatting hemi tick requires a higher quality oil, but the increase in viscosity is just common sense; higher HT/HS, more film strength, more protection.

Sure, 0W has become the standard for many manufacturers, so why not if you can use it year round, still better than 5W in reaching parts during cold start is it not?

I didn't mean "low pressure" as in a malfunction, I meant low pressure as in the low range of normal operation, which is typically 29/30 psi at low hot idle. I'll read up on pressure vs volume, happy to learn something new.

Cool, so we agree on higher oil weight isn't the fix for the hemi tick, which is what the OP was asking.

 

[BowDown]

IMO, if you change your oil frequently in a reasonable time frame, 5-6K miles max, any good synthetic is fine. I use PUP 5w20 however its a PITA to get so I'll be going back to Mobil 1. I used Mobil 1 in my 2003 5.7 HEMI Ram and it made it to 277K with no issues, I also use Mobil 1 my Z06 with a built LSX that sees its 7500 RPM redline every time I drive it, no oil issues

 

[silver billet]

Sure, 0W has become the standard for many manufacturers, so why not if you can use it year round, still better than 5W in reaching parts during cold start is it not?

I didn't mean "low pressure" as in a malfunction, I meant low pressure as in the low range of normal operation, which is typically 29/30 psi at low hot idle. I'll read up on pressure vs volume, happy to learn something new.

Cool, so we agree on higher oil weight isn't the fix for the hemi tick, which is what the OP was asking.

We don't know (as an absolute certainty) whether or not viscosity in and of itself reduces probability of tick. But we DO know that all else in the oil being the same, higher viscosity offers more protection at all times, as long as its still pumpable, so it can only help improve the probability. It might not help, or it might help, but it won't make it worse.

And for the rest of the engine (so excluding the hemi tick specifically), a higher viscosity again is the better choice offering more protection.

Higher viscosity just makes more sense all around for a truck. It's basically low hanging fruit when it comes to hemi tick. It doesn't cost any extra to buy it, and doesn't cost any extra to use it. There is 0 advantage to running a 20 weight. And if you're concerned about preventing hemi tick, that's where higher quality oils come into play, like Redline and now HPL. Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 is also a pretty good oil and I ran that for a summer but prefer RL/HPL over that.

 

[RAL]

Higher viscosity oil does not always offer more protection, and I say that as a fan of higher viscosities and a skeptic when it comes to thin oils. That being said, oil viscosity is chosen largely based on main bearing clearances and expected maximum operating temperature in the oil sump. If the engineers who designed the motor think a 5w20 or 0w20 will provide the necessary minimum oil pressure when the engine is hot, particularly at high oil temperatures and low RPM, then the strength of modern synthetic oils really obviates the old arguments about "film strength." The problem arises more typically when someone tries to use a lower viscosity oil like an 0w or 5w in a motor that was originally designed for a 10w, 15w, or 20w oil. Even though an oil may claim that at operating temperature it performs, for example, like a 40 weight, it may sheer down to closer to a 30 or a 20 after time in the crank case, and so you may have a situation with sub-optimal oil pressure. In those cases, you are better off sticking with an oil that is a higher viscosity. To take an example, I have a couple of older German cars where the original viscosity recommendation was 15w40 or 20w50 even. I don't run 0w or 5w oils in these cars, even if the second number is sufficiently high. I will run a 15w40 or 15w50 in them. When these cars were built, the engineers who specified oil viscosity again, like the folks at Ram, understand the need to maintain that wedge of oil at the crank, and so the viscosity was chosen with expected operating temps and main bearing clearances in mind. As some of those cars approach 200k plus miles, it reaffirms that the folks who spec this stuff aren't fools.

But again, unless you think the engineering department at Ram is filled with folks who don't understand this stuff, as the consumer your safest bet is to follow the manufacturer's recommendation, particularly when the truck is under warranty. With modern, high quality oils, so long as they are kept full and changed regularly, the rest of the vehicle will likely wear out far sooner than the motor. And with random issues such as lifter problems, the oil is a red-herring. If your truck happens to be impacted by that defect, there is no magic oil that will save it (again assuming you keep the recommended viscosity oil in the crankcase, and keep it clean and full).

 

[Willwork4truck]

Redline 5w-30 is a good choice, but RL is no longer the favourite. Seems that HPL is the new best-in-class oil to beat and its priced accordingly. You can probably run the standard PCMO but if you want even more protection and runtime then the "premium plus" or "no vii" or "supercar" flavours will do that for you. There is an experiment on BITOG right now where one member has run HPL for 30,000 miles to date, all backed by UOA's and pics of the interior of the engine (which is a 3.6 pentastar), it is completely spotless in there which shows the incredible cleaning performance of all HPL's oils.

I'd also suggest a 0w-30 or 5w-30, the 20 weight is there for fuel efficiency gains only, not protection.

Automotive Lubricants

Advanced Lubrication, Inc.

www.advlubrication.com

There was a tear down vid posted on YT a while ago (3 months) from YTuber Idocars showing a near spotless but trashed Ferd 3.7 Duratech. Coolant really cleans them up nicely, it just doesnt function too well in lieu of uhh, oil.

 

[SD Rebel]

We don't know (as an absolute certainty) whether or not viscosity in and of itself reduces probability of tick. But we DO know that all else in the oil being the same, higher viscosity offers more protection at all times, as long as its still pumpable, so it can only help improve the probability. It might not help, or it might help, but it won't make it worse.

And for the rest of the engine (so excluding the hemi tick specifically), a higher viscosity again is the better choice offering more protection.

Higher viscosity just makes more sense all around for a truck. It's basically low hanging fruit when it comes to hemi tick. It doesn't cost any extra to buy it, and doesn't cost any extra to use it. There is 0 advantage to running a 20 weight. And if you're concerned about preventing hemi tick, that's where higher quality oils come into play, like Redline and now HPL. Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 is also a pretty good oil and I ran that for a summer but prefer RL/HPL over that.

No, I don't think we know that either, which is why many of us still use 20W, otherwise all of use would be using thicker oil if we believed it was better. In the end, we all want what is best for our vehicles. However, there are too many opposing views that state the opposite.

I would be using 0W-30 in a heartbeat if I didn't have my reservations it actually made things worse based again on other opinions, including certain so-called Hemi engine builders which have been posted here before.

I will side with my warranty at the moment, since I have an extended powertrain warranty and will only use the recommended oil spec & quality. But again, show me something definite and I will jump ship and join you.

 

[BowDown]

We don't know (as an absolute certainty) whether or not viscosity in and of itself reduces probability of tick. But we DO know that all else in the oil being the same, higher viscosity offers more protection at all times, as long as its still pumpable, so it can only help improve the probability. It might not help, or it might help, but it won't make it worse.

And for the rest of the engine (so excluding the hemi tick specifically), a higher viscosity again is the better choice offering more protection.

Higher viscosity just makes more sense all around for a truck. It's basically low hanging fruit when it comes to hemi tick. It doesn't cost any extra to buy it, and doesn't cost any extra to use it. There is 0 advantage to running a 20 weight. And if you're concerned about preventing hemi tick, that's where higher quality oils come into play, like Redline and now HPL. Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 is also a pretty good oil and I ran that for a summer but prefer RL/HPL over that.

That would likely be a mistake, higher viscosity does not always lead to more protection. One of the biggest drivers in oil viscosity is bearing clearances, modern engines have very tight bearing clearances to reduce drag. A higher viscosity oil will have trouble flowing into those clearances especially when cold and floating the crank.
Another thing to consider are the lifters, ironically, the problem you're looking to address. Modern lifters are designed with oil control channels/passages for a thinner viscosity oil, a thinker oil will not flow through theses passages as well and lead to lifter damage or lifter bore damage and at that point, you've actually created the problem you're trying to avoid.

Frequent oil and filter changes are all you need IMO

 

[silver billet]

No, I don't think we know that either, which is why many of us still use 20W, otherwise all of use would be using thicker oil if we believed it was better. That are too many opposing views that state the opposite.

I would be using 0W-30 in a heartbeat if I didn't have my reservations it actually made things worse based again on other opinions, including certain so-called Hemi engine builders which have been posted here before.

I will side with my warranty at the moment, since I have a extended powertrain warranty and will only use the recommended oil & quality. But again, show me something definite otherwise and I will jump ship and ask to be your first mate.

You will not find a single case of a hemi warranty being denied simply because a 30w was used instead of 20w. The owners manual in past rams even specifically said 30 weights could be used, and the engine hasn't changed a single bit since then.

You know why you won't find a case? Because it's impossible that a 30w causes damage. If a 30 weight causes damage, then a 20 weight at a somewhat colder temperature will also cause damage. That's what you guys aren't understanding here, viscosity changes with respect to temperature, and the same thickness of oil can be found in both 20w and 30w, just at different temps. These values overlap, but the 30w gives you that extra headroom at operating temps and when towing when temps really start getting excessive.

 

[silver billet]

That would likely be a mistake, higher viscosity does not always lead to more protection. One of the biggest drivers in oil viscosity is bearing clearances, modern engines have very tight bearing clearances to reduce drag. A higher viscosity oil will have trouble flowing into those clearances especially when cold and floating the crank.
Another thing to consider are the lifters, ironically, the problem you're looking to address. Modern lifters are designed with oil control channels/passages for a thinner viscosity oil, a thinker oil will not flow through theses passages as well and lead to lifter damage or lifter bore damage and at that point, you've actually created the problem you're trying to avoid.

Frequent oil and filter changes are all you need IMO

All else being the same, high viscosity = higher HT/HS.

The hemi can run 40 weights with 0 issues. It was designed back in early 2000's when 30 and 40 weights were very common, and the owners manual in past years "allowed" us to run 30 weight.

Also read my post above WRT to viscosity vs temperature and the overlapping values there.

Also; please read up on positive displacement oil pumps. The passages/bearings/lifters are getting the same volume of oil.

 

[RAL]

You will not find a single case of a hemi warranty being denied simply because a 30w was used instead of 20w. The owners manual in past rams even specifically said 30 weights could be used, and the engine hasn't changed a single bit since then.

You know why you won't find a case? Because it's impossible that a 30w causes damage. If a 30 weight causes damage, then a 20 weight at a somewhat colder temperature will also cause damage. That's what you guys aren't understanding here, viscosity changes with respect to temperature, and the same thickness of oil can be found in both 20w and 30w, just at different temps. These values overlap, but the 30w gives you that extra headroom at operating temps and when towing when temps really start getting excessive.

Respectfully, get this in writing from Ram or Stellantis. Without it, you are giving them an out to deny warranty coverage. Is it likely? Not at all. But why take that chance.

Officially signing off this one, the horse is dead.

 

[RedFred]

I have been using RedLine 5W-30 in my hemi for the last 100k miles. Currently at just under 200k miles total on the odometer and still running strong.

 

[RAL]

Is that a Tamiya Monster Beetle in your signature? I used to build Tamiya buggies when I was a kid in the 1980s! I think that led to me wanting to help build and race cars when I was an "adult." (My wife reminds me I still lack some level of maturity.)

 

[RedFred]

Is that a Tamiya Monster Beetle in your signature? I used to build Tamiya buggies when I was a kid in the 1980s! I think that led to me wanting to help build and race cars when I was an "adult." (My wife reminds me I still lack some level of maturity.)

Yup. I had a BlackFoot as a kid. A few years back, they re-released the original kits so I picked up a couple. I love the old school Tamiya trucks. Also have a decent collection of new RC cars that get used, the Tamiya's just hang out in my basement.

 

[silver billet]

Respectfully, get this in writing from Ram or Stellantis. Without it, you are giving them an out to deny warranty coverage. Is it likely? Not at all. But why take that chance.

Officially signing off this one, the horse is dead.

They can deny warranty for any reason they want, good luck fighting them on it regardless of whether you feel you're right or wrong.

This also depends on your goal for the truck. Do you keep it only within the warranty period? Or do you plan to keep it a long time?

If you plan to drive it till the wheels fall off (like me), then the warranty period is irrelevant and you should focus on whats actually best at keeping your truck alive, which is a high quality high viscosity oil. It's more important to have an engine in pristine condition after the warranty has expired, than it is to worry about the small period of time where you may or may not actually be reimbursed on the small chance that something goes wrong.

 

[SD Rebel]

They can deny warranty for any reason they want, good luck fighting them on it regardless of whether you feel you're right or wrong.

This also depends on your goal for the truck. Do you keep it only within the warranty period? Or do you plan to keep it a long time?

If you plan to drive it till the wheels fall off (like me), then the warranty period is irrelevant and you should focus on whats actually best at keeping your truck alive, which is a high quality high viscosity oil. It's more important to have an engine in pristine condition after the warranty has expired, than it is to worry about the small period of time where you may or may not actually be reimbursed on the small chance that something goes wrong.

You know what Silver Billet, you are turning me around. I'm not quite ready to convert, but I'm reading the pamphlets at the door.

Your last reply was interesting. I remember asking my service advisor about DIY my oil changes back in 2019 when I bought the truck, he said it's fine only if I use 5W-20 with FCA MS 6395, not to go 30W. He looked me in the eyes when he said that last part. I couldn't find 30W with that requirement at the time, so I assumed there was none due to that reason. But come to find, there are plenty of 30W with FCA MS 6395 these days.

I did call my service advisor today at another dealership about sticking with 5W-20, same response as before. However, based on Chryslers own manual, it shouldn't be an issue if I use a 30W if it has a MS 6395 certification. Though I don't like having to fight my dealership service if I drop a lifter 3 years from now and they get me for a 30W technicality. Interesting though, you got my mind moving a bit on this subject.