Best Oil for Hemi "Tick"

[BowDown]

Nobody here is brow beating. There are 2 separate things going on here, 1) a 30 weight offers more protection than a 20 weight all else equal, this is a fact not an opinion. 2) do we "need" the higher protection?

I'm perfectly fine with people saying "no" to the second question, you run what you want to run. Just don't leave posts saying that 30 weight isn't better, because it is and that is a black and white fact.

So lets say we're out in antarctic and it's -60 and we need to walk outside. You have a choice between 2 coats, a really thick and warm parka or a spring jacket. The one is factually thicker than the other and will always keep you warmer (30 weight), do you need the parka? Well I'm going to wear it all times because they're the same price and I like being warmer, but you guys do you. If you only walk outside for 10 seconds, you can get away with the spring jacket, but if you're towing or racing (not that likely in a truck) then the parka makes more and more sense.

And, I do have UOA's and the highest amounts of copper and iron were on Redline 5w-20. The report before and after that run were RL 5w-30 and both those were run longer, with towing, and had lower wear numbers.

My run with mobil 1 0w-40 had some pretty low numbers too IIRC.

I'll get some of this together shortly, busy at work right now.

Better is subjective. Is 5w30 in a hot harsh environment, a high horsepower engine with high bearing pressures like boost? Yes
Is it better in an everyday environment where most peoples engines aren't boosted or subjected to constant 350° temps? No. Synthetic 5w20 is good to 500°

It's all about need
Is 900 whp better than 300? Yes
Is 900 better than 300 without a tire? No

PdsDetailsPage

Whatever you're driving, wherever you're going, you can trust your car to get you there when you use Mobil 1 advanced full-synthetic motor oil 5W-20.

www.mobil.com

 

[silver billet]

The factory PCV system allows oil in the intake and into your cylinders where it burns, unless you have a catch can.

This has no effect on the cat, its completely negligible.

Those maybe fine oils and I'm sure they are but are they needed is the question. I say no but everyone should take this info and do what they please.

This is a thread about "best oil". HPL is certainly in the running and exceeds anything you can pick up at Walmart off the shelf. The other 2 are also good, but again some of us want the best. Are they "needed"? The criteria for "need" has to be written to answer that question, perhaps it's better to phrase the question as "if you want to get the most life out of your engine, what oil is recommended" and then the answers become a little more clear.

 

[silver billet]

Better is subjective. Is 5w30 in a hot harsh environment, a high horsepower engine with high bearing pressures like boost? Yes
Is it better in an everyday environment where most peoples engines aren't boosted or subjected to constant 350° temps? No. Synthetic 5w20 is good to 500°

I believe I responded to this already, 5w-30 offers more protection and costs the same to run it. There is 0 downside (other than being concerned about warranty) to choosing the thicker oil, why anybody is choosing to run the 5w-20 is baffling. Again, read up on MOFT and HT/HS.

 

[Willwork4truck]

I believe I responded to this already, 5w-30 offers more protection and costs the same to run it. There is 0 downside (other than being concerned about warranty) to choosing the thicker oil, why anybody is choosing to run the 5w-20 is baffling. Again, read up on MOFT and HT/HS.

I will throw out an idea, YMMV of course. If under factory warranty still, cut the oil change interval in half and use the heavier weight (as has been bandied about here and many other threads on oil). Of course that only helps during that particular interval.

It’s a weak idea maybe but it’s something. Otherwise stick with factory weights and change more often. As has been said by others, “oil is cheap”.

For you “oil experts“ and warranty folks, just how is the average tech at your RAM dealer going to know if you go up a grade in weight/viscosity anyway?

If you have sufficient notice before a trip the stealership for a warranty claim, get the oil changed back to specs.

“Bob is the oil guy” forum has threads on it too, as you’d expect.

 

[RAL]

The question "how will they know" is fair. Basically, if you have a serious engine issue while under warranty, and the truck is not serviced at a Ram dealer (so they have ready access to the service history), it is very likely they will ask for service invoices. The invoice will state the viscosity used.

 

[silver billet]

I will throw out an idea, YMMV of course. If under factory warranty still, cut the oil change interval in half and use the heavier weight (as has been bandied about here and many other threads on oil). Of course that only helps during that particular nterval.

It’s a weak idea maybe but it’s something. Otherwise stick with factory weights and change more often. As has been said by others, “oil is cheap”.

For you “oil experts“ and warranty folks, just how is the average tech at your RAM dealer going to know if you go up a grade in weight/viscosity anyway?

If you have sufficient notice before a trip the stealership for a warranty claim, get the oil changed back to specs.

“Bob is the oil guy” forum has threads on it too, as you’d expect.

I'm certainly no expert, just discussing and passing along what I've picked up on bitog and other sites. Bitog often has thick vs thin debates on there too and the same answers and arguments are posted there.

You might get away with swapping the oil, but I bet if they catch on they'll be less likely to play ball with you too. My dealer knows I'm running thicker oil, I even brought it (the oil) to them the first few times and asked them to change it for me. They didn't even blink, no mention about warranty, just "sure no problem" and away they went. Now I change it myself and keep the receipts.

I personally feel the warranty concern is overblown, first because it's physically impossible for a 30 weight to cause any damage greater than a 20 weight would under the same conditions. Secondly, a number of car/truck manuals actually "allow" thicker oils when used under more extreme conditions. The Ram 1500 is a prime example, owners manuals used to allow/recommend 30 weights, but Toyota is another example of a brand that recommends heavier viscosities in the exact same engine but in a different market (Europe/Australia is sometimes heavier). When you track your mustang, they recommend heavier viscosity's too. In several of Ford's trucks they dipped down to a thinner oil for a time and then actually changed their mind and recommend thicker oils again. It's all because of the same reason, thicker = more protection. Do you "need" it? Only you can answer that based on your goals for the truck. But that's a different answer than the answer to "what oil offers more protection".

Thinner oils are all about corporate MPG numbers. There is a very tiny MPG gain to be had by running a thinner and thinner oil. Makes no difference to you and I as its measured in fractions of a percent, but when you sell millions of these and get penalized for every MPG then your corporate averages begin to add up and matter in a big way.

 

[HSKR R/T]

This has no effect on the cat, its completely negligible.



This is a thread about "best oil". HPL is certainly in the running and exceeds anything you can pick up at Walmart off the shelf. The other 2 are also good, but again some of us want the best. Are they "needed"? The criteria for "need" has to be written to answer that question, perhaps it's better to phrase the question as "if you want to get the most life out of your engine, what oil is recommended" and then the answers become a little more clear.

"Best" can be subjective. What is best for you and your budget might not be what's best for the next guy. All we can do is say what we use and our experience with it.

 

[Willwork4truck]

The question "how will they know" is fair. Basically, if you have a serious engine issue while under warranty, and the truck is not serviced at a Ram dealer (so they have ready access to the service history), it is very likely they will ask for service invoices. The invoice will state the viscosity used.

Fair point. As with anything else, owners are often hamstrung with warranty requirements. Perhaps the ”halving the timeframe” thicker viscosity might be ok after all.

RAM will see what they want to see as far as records of factory spec oil while your own oil change or even a 3d party shop oil change place can use the heavier one.

Or just wait until your 3/36K is up and change your own oil using whatever you feel is best.

Me I just overchange oil as far as miles driven or idling.
I dont race, tow or even idle much, but my son idled his truck a lot due to young children in the truck and needing a/c on. As an example, look at a school dropoff in the morning or afternoon. Many drivers show up 20+ minutes early and sit there idling. That adds up if done 5 days a week, twice a day for 9 months…

 

[Willwork4truck]

"Best" can be subjective. What is best for you and your budget might not be what's best for the next guy. All we can do is say what we use and our experience with it.

That’s the beauty of our (fast disappearing) right to use what we want when we want. If certain government types have their way, you won’t be posting comments to an oil change thread for very many more years.

Whether it is a small engine or a vehicle, when we are all forc, I mean “allowed” to purchase and operate only battery powered equipment/engines, this whole discussion becomes a moot point.

Seems like 2035 is the year that sort of thing may happen, just like <25 hp small gas engines are now banned in a certain state, “for the benefit of all”.

 

[HSKR R/T]

That’s the beauty of our (fast disappearing) right to use what we want when we want. If certain government types have their way, you won’t be posting comments to an oil change thread for very many more years.

Whether it is a small engine or a vehicle, when we are all forc, I mean “allowed” to purchase and operate only battery powered equipment/engines, this whole discussion becomes a moot point.

Seems like 2035 is the year that sort of thing may happen, just like <25 hp small gas engines are now banned in a certain state, “for the benefit of all”.

Unless they completely ban any ICE engine from being owned by private individuals, new or used, there will always be this discussion.

 

[Scram1500]

Thinner oils are all about corporate MPG numbers. There is a very tiny MPG gain to be had by running a thinner and thinner oil. Makes no difference to you and I as its measured in fractions of a percent, but when you sell millions of these and get penalized for every MPG then your corporate averages begin to add up and matter in a big way.

If the mpg increase from using 20 weight is measured in fractions, wouldn't the wear from using 20 weight versus 30 weight also be measured in fractions?

 

[RAL]

Don't get me started about the bans on power equipment . . . . The cynical side of me says they want to ban ICEs and have us all reliant on batteries because range is shorter and then it is easier to control personal movement. Go to Europe, where socialism is predominant, like they want to do to us here, and when you travel around, you notice that the highways are not nearly as filled with personal vehicles, and when you see personal vehicles, they are small and not that nice. A lot of folks obviously use the bus and the train. That's not what I want - it is fine on vacation but not in my day to day life.

Meanwhile, no one talks about the fact that if the reason for all this is to help the environment, mining one major field in Canada (I think Alberta) will release more carbon (the minerals are in a bog) then by burning all the trees in the Amazon. I'll dig out the WSJ link if anyone is interested in the full story - my memory on certain details is incomplete or hazy.

Link to article: $67 Billion of Rare Minerals Is Buried Under One of the World’s Biggest Carbon Sinks

 

[GyRoCoN]

I'll chime in with my thoughts and experience. I had the Cam bearings go out on my 4th Gen 2019 Ram Classic with the 5.7. at 90,000 KMS (60,000 miles) I exclusively ran 5W20 PP and Mobil 1 EP filters and changed the oil when the oil Life monitor called for it. under warranty, they replaced every moving part of the engine excluding the Crank, Rods and Pistons trying to track down the cause of the noise and loss of oil pressure at operating temp before concluding that the cam bearings were gone out (new cam didn't help). it was then they started looking for oil change documentation. I dumped it and landed in the 5th Gen Sport GT package I have now. This time around I am doing oil chages no later than at 40% on the oil life monitor and using mopar filters and Castrol Edge 0W20. Im in the camp that keeping the oil fresh is probably the best thing you can do to improve the longevity of these engines rather than any particular brand or viscosity for normal use.

 

[BowDown]

The question "how will they know" is fair. Basically, if you have a serious engine issue while under warranty, and the truck is not serviced at a Ram dealer (so they have ready access to the service history), it is very likely they will ask for service invoices. The invoice will state the viscosity used.

They'll send out an oil sample if they suspect something. I thought I saw someone on here have that happen to them

 

[Willwork4truck]

Yes. The best oil is the slippery honey colored oil.

STP oil treatment? That’s honey colored…

 

[Willwork4truck]

One thing I don't actually know (although I have a MAJOR hunch about) if whether chronically driving on LOW oil levels is bad for the engine? Now before you roll your eyes, doesn't the ECU "instruct" the oil pump to distribute - as best it can - equal volumes of oil throughout the engine during full and low oil conditions? NOTE that I am not discussing pressure or throttle application versus idling in this situation. This is purely on dumb owners who do not physically check their oil levels, ever.

Damn but that would be a smart system. I don’t think our trucks have the computers and such to do that.

 

[Willwork4truck]

My truck sees regular towing between april and november, and it used to see pretty high temps at and above 250. This is far too high, I've now running a 180 tstat and use a high quality oil. Last year the highest I've seen was 230 (while towing) which is better. The tstat is what brought the temps down, the oil protects better at higher temps.

The simple fact is, everybody can switch to a 30 weight and it doesn't cost any extra, nor does it hurt you in any way. This is called a "free upgrade", it's a no brainer.

I believe this graphic sums the thread up nicely:

Draws better than I could.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Unless they completely ban any ICE engine from being owned by private individuals, new or used, there will always be this discussion.

Don't give them any more ideas lease!

 

[silver billet]

If the mpg increase from using 20 weight is measured in fractions, wouldn't the wear from using 20 weight versus 30 weight also be measured in fractions?

That is not a 100% linear relationship. When MOFT is too low you have metal on metal and far more wear than when MOFT is high enough to keep the metal separate. The amount of time you have insufficient MOFT will greatly affect the wear amounts. Even when MOFT is insufficient the oil can still help out with other anti wear and friction modifiers which is one reason why a higher quality oil can wear less than another oil even at the same viscosity.

Then there is the whole aspect of shear down, an oil does not have to stay in grade to be considered a 5w-30, it can slip a grade into a 5w-20 by the end of its life, whereas a 5w-20 can slip even further causing excessive wear. HPL oils do not shear down due to their use of high quality VII's (or in the case of the "no vii" formula, they have no viis at all as the name suggest).

 

[kdoublep]

I played the warranty game as well. As soon as I hit 60K, I switched from PUP 5W20 to PUP 5w30. Been running lubegard since about 20K. I'm at 67K now.

No lifter/cam issue but I have the exhaust leak.