Alternative to Rockford Fosgate DSR1?

[805myth1]

The AR is also compatible with Audison and Audio Control amplifiers with DSP built in, if the kenwood amplifier isn’t available.

 

[Brunzca]

Thanks again all, I appreciate all of the feedback! Kenwood and AR are on order, to make sure I was able to get one. Tomorrow, looks like I start building a box (that should be interesting).

 

[Otto]

Thanks again all, I appreciate all of the feedback! Kenwood and AR are on order, to make sure I was able to get one. Tomorrow, looks like I start building a box (that should be interesting).

What subwoofer(s) are you going with?

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[805myth1]

iDatalink Maestro

www.idatalinkmaestro.com

Make sure u get the T harness also.

 

[Otto]

No offense taken, at all! I appreciate the question. I really have no idea, yet, of how to utilize the DSP, and will need to learn. I like the idea of being able to manage the sound, and I really do want to be able to balance it out better. One of my major issues with the Ram head unit, is that I can't get the surround sound to work with XM, which I listen to 99% of the time. So, my thought is that with the DSP, not only can I tailor the sound to my own liking, but I can balance/fade it however I want (i.e. create my own "surround", from whatever source). Maybe I'm off base here, entirely.

I do want to get the most out of the quality - at this point, I'm looking at a set of Morel components for the dash tweeters/doors, and probably focal 3way 6x9s for the rear doors,. But, I've never owned a DSP, so I don't know what works and what doesn't yet. I think the stock alpine is decent, but it's not loud enough, needs more clarity (as you said), and I definitely need to add a sub enclosure, so I'm upgrading it all as I go.

Thanks - and again, no offense taken, I'm open to suggestion. I'm somewhat handy, but new to the audio part of the equation, so learning as I go

So there's a lot here with controlling the sound stage and the speakers and the equalization. The DSP will help you do that but you will have limitations if you're running a passive component set in the front and a full range, three-way speaker in the rear.

I'll start with the three-way speaker in the rear, that speaker is effectively going to be playing lows and highs so you will need to create a bandpass filter for that speaker or feed it full range signal and rely purely on time alignment to help set the appropriate amount of rear fill.

The tough part on your front stage will be if you plan to use the passive crossovers included with the component set. The passive crossover is already have their high and low frequency and response curve set from the factory. Using the DSP you will be able to do some mild EQ in the time alignment to correct the sound stage but you will struggle due to those existing factory EQ points. AKA you don't have complete control of the component set.

Now using a 6 channel amplifier you could take complete control of your front stage and rear stage using the DSP and the 6 channels AKA going completely active. This is a slippery slope and can take a long time to tune and is also a great way to fry drivers if you aren't quite sure what you're doing as far as crossovers and gain settings on the amplifier.

The best way to utilize the DSP as a novice and avoid all of these risks is to create some simple high pass and low pass filters for your speakers and subwoofers. Then you can use the time alignment left right front and rear to help set the stage in the correct location. No shame in doing that and learning how to use those tools first before diving into controlling each individual driver independently.

If this is something you really want to dive into I encourage you to take a look at the DIY Mobile audio community that exists. There are tons of folks on that that have vast experience in the industry and tuning systems.

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[Brunzca]

What subwoofer(s) are you going with?

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Most likely 2 10's, in a down firing box. I am also considering 3 8's, so I could build it front firing, without crafting quite so many angles for volume. I think I'm going with the Skar VD series subs, either way, for now.

 

[Brunzca]

iDatalink Maestro

www.idatalinkmaestro.com

Make sure u get the T harness also.

Thanks, it's included with the one I bought. - I checked to make sure

So there's a lot here with controlling the sound stage and the speakers and the equalization. The DSP will help you do that but you will have limitations if you're running a passive component set in the front and a full range, three-way speaker in the rear.

I'll start with the three-way speaker in the rear, that speaker is effectively going to be playing lows and highs so you will need to create a bandpass filter for that speaker or feed it full range signal and rely purely on time alignment to help set the appropriate amount of rear fill.

The tough part on your front stage will be if you plan to use the passive crossovers included with the component set. The passive crossover is already have their high and low frequency and response curve set from the factory. Using the DSP you will be able to do some mild EQ in the time alignment to correct the sound stage but you will struggle due to those existing factory EQ points. AKA you don't have complete control of the component set.

Now using a 6 channel amplifier you could take complete control of your front stage and rear stage using the DSP and the 6 channels AKA going completely active. This is a slippery slope and can take a long time to tune and is also a great way to fry drivers if you aren't quite sure what you're doing as far as crossovers and gain settings on the amplifier.

The best way to utilize the DSP as a novice and avoid all of these risks is to create some simple high pass and low pass filters for your speakers and subwoofers. Then you can use the time alignment left right front and rear to help set the stage in the correct location. No shame in doing that and learning how to use those tools first before diving into controlling each individual driver independently.

If this is something you really want to dive into I encourage you to take a look at the DIY Mobile audio community that exists. There are tons of folks on that that have vast experience in the industry and tuning systems.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

Definitely a lot to unpack, but this is great info, thank you again!

 

[Otto]

Most likely 2 10's, in a down firing box. I am also considering 3 8's, so I could build it front firing, without crafting quite so many angles for volume. I think I'm going with the Skar VD series subs, either way, for now.

Maybe take a look at the Image Dynamics subwoofers their any of their lines are really good.

I had the Skars in my Frontier and was not very happy with them. They were very peaky and presented some unique problems getting them to fit in to a system. Great subs if you want boom, but of you want presence and flexibility with music I wouldn't recommend them.

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[Ldc2335]

No offense taken, at all! I appreciate the question. I really have no idea, yet, of how to utilize the DSP, and will need to learn. I like the idea of being able to manage the sound, and I really do want to be able to balance it out better. One of my major issues with the Ram head unit, is that I can't get the surround sound to work with XM, which I listen to 99% of the time. So, my thought is that with the DSP, not only can I tailor the sound to my own liking, but I can balance/fade it however I want (i.e. create my own "surround", from whatever source). Maybe I'm off base here, entirely.

I do want to get the most out of the quality - at this point, I'm looking at a set of Morel components for the dash tweeters/doors, and probably focal 3way 6x9s for the rear doors,. But, I've never owned a DSP, so I don't know what works and what doesn't yet. I think the stock alpine is decent, but it's not loud enough, needs more clarity (as you said), and I definitely need to add a sub enclosure, so I'm upgrading it all as I go.

Thanks - and again, no offense taken, I'm open to suggestion. I'm somewhat handy, but new to the audio part of the equation, so learning as I go

I can't stand listening to xm unless the volume is low (like when others are in the truck with me and were talking).

The sound quality is horrible. You get way better quality with carplay/android auto and using a service like spotify. I also tried out TIDAL, which is supposed to be cd quality (320kbs) or better. Didn't really notice a difference between it and spotify on its highest quality setting.

I guess my thought here, is that y'all want to spend thousands on audio equipment, to listen to a 48kbs bit rate source.

I think even xm through the app is better.

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[Brunzca]

Maybe take a look at the Image Dynamics subwoofers their any of their lines are really good.

I had the Skars in my Frontier and was not very happy with them. They were very peaky and presented some unique problems getting them to fit in to a system. Great subs if you want boom, but of you want presence and flexibility with music I wouldn't recommend them.

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Thanks, and will do. I definitely prefer the quality and flexibility over boom.

 

[Brunzca]

I can't stand listening to xm unless the volume is low (like when others are in the truck with me and were talking).

The sound quality is horrible. You get way better quality with carplay/android auto and using a service like spotify. I also tried out TIDAL, which is supposed to be cd quality (320kbs) or better. Didn't really notice a difference between it and spotify on its highest quality setting.

I guess my thought here, is that y'all want to spend thousands on audio equipment, to listen to a 48kbs bit rate source.

I think even xm through the app is better.

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I've actually been using carplay to listen to xm through the app lately.. It's just a PITA not to be able to control it as easily

 

[Brunzca]

Maybe take a look at the Image Dynamics subwoofers their any of their lines are really good.

I had the Skars in my Frontier and was not very happy with them. They were very peaky and presented some unique problems getting them to fit in to a system. Great subs if you want boom, but of you want presence and flexibility with music I wouldn't recommend them.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

Those are nice looking subs, they don’t take a lot of power, compared to some of the others. 250 RMS / 350 max? (Which sounds consistent with what you said, re: presence/sound over just boom, right?). Also means I won’t need as big of a mono amp to run them. Maybe a Sundown 1000 (states runs 850 @ 2 Ohms).

 

[Otto]

Those are nice looking subs, they don’t take a lot of power, compared to some of the others. 250 RMS / 350 max? (Which sounds consistent with what you said, re: presence/sound over just boom, right?). Also means I won’t need as big of a mono amp to run them. Maybe a Sundown 1000 (states runs 850 @ 2 Ohms).

Depends on what which series. The ID10s are rated for 250w RMS, peak of 450w. The Sundown amp is 500w RMS @4 ohms, 800w RMS @2 ohms and 1000w RMS @1 ohms. So if we were to want to 2 10s and stay within a safe range of power you will need a final impedence of 4 ohms to stay in the 500w range. So if going with the ID10s you will need buy them in dual 4 ohm model. Wire the voice coils of the subwoofers in series then wire the 2 subwoofers together in parallel to reach the 4 ohm load at the amp.

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[Brunzca]

Depends on what which series. The ID10s are rated for 250w RMS, peak of 450w. The Sundown amp is 500w RMS @4 ohms, 800w RMS @2 ohms and 1000w RMS @1 ohms. So if we were to want to 2 10s and stay within a safe range of power you will need a final impedence of 4 ohms to stay in the 500w range. So if going with the ID10s you will need buy them in dual 4 ohm model. Wire the voice coils of the subwoofers in series then wire the 2 subwoofers together in parallel to reach the 4 ohm load at the amp.

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Thanks again.. I mis-read the max RMS as the peak. But, wouldn't I want to go higher in power then, as if wiring @ 4ohm, that would only be delivering 250w per sub?. Much appreciated. I started checking out the DIY Mobile site, too.

 

[Otto]

Thanks again.. I mis-read the max RMS as the peak. But, wouldn't I want to go higher in power then, as if wiring @ 4ohm, that would only be delivering 250w per sub?. Much appreciated. I started checking out the DIY Mobile site, too.

Not sure I'm following the question.

Basically the rule of thumb is you want to add the 2 subs RMS wattage together and Target that as your amplifier RMS. You then need to match the impedance 4 ohm or 2 ohm and find an amplifier that can do that at one of those final impedances. So looking at that amplifier and the RMS rating for the id10s we see that to reach the 500 watts RMS you would need to have a final impedance at the amplifier of 4 ohms. Jumping to a final impedance of 2 ohms will take you to the 800 RMS which is probably too much for two of those subs to handle.

Hopefully that makes more sense around the wiring recommendation. When looking at amplifiers it's better to think about the RMS values than the maximum values. Most Max values can only be achieved under the most ideal of conditions meaning distortion-free signal in a full 14.4 volts provided.

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[Brunzca]

Not sure I'm following the question.

Basically the rule of thumb is you want to add the 2 subs RMS wattage together and Target that as your amplifier RMS. You then need to match the impedance 4 ohm or 2 ohm and find an amplifier that can do that at one of those final impedances. So looking at that amplifier and the RMS rating for the id10s we see that to reach the 500 watts RMS you would need to have a final impedance at the amplifier of 4 ohms. Jumping to a final impedance of 2 ohms will take you to the 800 RMS which is probably too much for two of those subs to handle.

Hopefully that makes more sense around the wiring recommendation. When looking at amplifiers it's better to think about the RMS values than the maximum values. Most Max values can only be achieved under the most ideal of conditions meaning distortion-free signal in a full 14.4 volts provided.

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Got it. I thought I needed to have enough power to get as close to the max wattage as possible, without exceeding, as not to underpower the subs. I was looking at it wrong. Once again, thank you for the education

 

[Ldc2335]

Got it. I thought I needed to have enough power to get as close to the max wattage as possible, without exceeding, as not to underpower the subs. I was looking at it wrong. Once again, thank you for the education

Yeah, MAX is a bad word when planning audio. It's marketing hype. That's why you'll see a boss sub with a 250w RMS say something like 1200w max.. It's just not going to happen.

Only look at RMS like he mentioned.

Sub 1 RMS + sub 2 RMS = amp RMS

You can go about 10 to 20% higher with the amp as long as your gain is set properly.

Check this out, it's helpful for planning and how to wire.

Subwoofer wiring diagrams — how to hook up your subs

How to hook up your subs for powerful bass

www.crutchfield.com

Example pic attached.

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[sppb32]

You better of with the PAC module and a stand alone DSP, you have better control and better choice of amplification for each channel. You also don't need an overpriced one, the Banda Expert PX2 is a great DSP with everything you need and some.

 

[Otto]

You better of with the PAC module and a stand alone DSP, you have better control and better choice of amplification for each channel. You also don't need an overpriced one, the Banda Expert PX2 is a great DSP with everything you need and some.

What's the thing on the left?

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[Brunzca]

I went with the Kenwood Xr600-DSP, and Maestro AR. Swapped out factory speakers last weekend, and hooked up the amp. Planned on mounting it under the drivers seat, where the factory one was, utilizing the existing bracket and a mdf cutout, but I couldn’t quite get it to fit right, after multiple attempts. I thought about making a custom bracket, but having all those speaker wires right where a passenger’s feet would go concerned me. So, today, i took the back seats and factory sub out, and made a board for the back wall. Tomorrow, I’ll pull all the wires, hook up the harnesses, and mount the amp to the back wall.

Hopefully deciding on sub setup in the next few days, and get that ordered…I’m waffling on the 2x10”s, and considering a single 12” instead, possibly a Dayton reference HO.

I also need to rewire the dash tweeters, thats on the list (but I have no wire hangers in the house...lol)