A/C Performance

[Jimmy07]

I generally have no interest in participating in internet squabbles. I also do not claim to be an automotive engineer or to have "worked ~50ft from where the HVAC was designed", but I do have a simple question for Streetsweeper. Do you really think it is cheaper for FCA to do the repair they are using than to engineer a simple to install restricted hose replacement?

Replacing the heater hoses with something more restrictive wouldn’t have solved the problem, because there would still be an HVAC box with incorrectly sealing blend doors, and an HVAC module reading sensor information incorrectly.
Example:
The 2019+ HD Rams with 6.7 Cummins and 6.4 hemi have the exact A/C same issue as the 5th gen 1500s with 5.7 hemi, eco diesel, and pentastar engines. The 2019+ HD Rams use the exact same supply and return heater hoses as the 2014-2018 HDs with their respective engine options. Those model years HD Rams did not have the A/C issues that the 2019+ Rams have. The only things in common between all engine options of 5th gen 1500s and 2019+ HD Rams that differ from 4th gen Rams is- they all received new HVAC modules, redesigned HVAC housings with a separate distribution box, and 4 in duct temp sensors that the HVAC module uses information from, along with the usual cabin temp sensor and solar sensor, to determine what positions the blend doors should be in.

 

[brian42]

My 2003 Ford F-250 had terrible A/C also (worse than the DT).

You really have no appreciation for or understanding of how much coordination it takes from different engineering teams to all work separately but have all of their parts come together, fit, and function as cars roll off an assy line. Perhaps engine team didn't talk to climate. Perhaps integration team didn't think anything of it. Who knows.

I get that it’s nearly impossible to cover all the minutiae (at some point it becomes cost-prohibitive in time, resources, and/or money) but I wish the integration team had worked a little closer with the engine, chassis, and steering groups so that the oil filter wasn’t so ridiculous to remove (and spill oil everywhere) and the sway bar wasn’t directly in the drain stream from the pan.

 

[Ram4Lou]

"thank god they randomly decided out of the blue"
As I said, every engineering change happens for a specific reason. You really have no appreciation for or understanding of how much coordination it takes from different engineering teams to all work separately but have all of their parts come together, fit, and function as cars roll off an assy line. Perhaps engine team didn't talk to climate. Perhaps integration team didn't think anything of it. Who knows.

I can only say without a doubt that the root cause is the hose. The countermeasure, doesn't necessarily have to be at the hose. Clearly it isn't.

OMG, Dude, just admit when you’re wrong. It is obvious without a doubt that the TSB to correct the cooling deficiency was clearly the faulty design flaw of the plenum and it’s inability to isolate the heater core from the flow path when the AC was set to colder temperatures!!! It’s a no brainer!! RAM recognized the “fact” that the door was not sealing correctly, along with incorrect sensor placement and they addressed the issue in a concise, deliberate and effective solution!! I applaud RAM for responding to customer concerns, pinpointing the issue and owning up to their commitment to customer satisfaction! You my friend, need to quit dancing around your misinformation and own up to the fact that you are wrong!! It doesn’t matter how hot a heater core gets... if you isolate it correctly with proper blend door sealing there is no way for heat to enter the “cooling flow path” when the climate control is set to cold!! FCA recognized the blend door fault and addressed it accordingly!!

 

[KenATX]

The TSB for the AC has been completed. I finally picked up the truck yesterday. It was in the shop for 2 weeks as they had some additional warranty work to perform and we also had a bit of weather event here in Texas so it sat on the lift for a week without any work being done to it. I don't mind since it stayed in doors. I haven't had a chance to take any temperature reading or gather any data but i'll get around to it soon and post my results.

 

[Get N Dirty]

Just droped off truck for endless reboot of Uconnect/radio that killed my battery. I also brought in the bulletin 24-001-20 that addresses the AC issues experienced in this thread. I asked dealer if they would order the parts even though we can't perform the AC fix because it is to cold yet. Told them at least part would be here and when it is warm enough they could go ahead with fix. Dealer actually ordered them. No "We need to perform an AC diagnostic or check it first". Did that many times already. I highlighted the part in that says "If the customer describes the symptom/condition listed above, perform the repair procedure." I actually read that part word for word. Surprised they did not give me the run around. Just thinking about having a properly running AC makes my day so much better.

 

[brian42]

My dealership, which has been good to me for everything else, gave me the “it passed the cool down test” and wouldn’t do the repair. Of course it’s going to pass in the morning in the shade of the service area.

I have to go in for an acrid odor and now my map lights don’t work. Going to take a copy of the TSB in this time and hopefully get the same result as Get N Dirty did. This will be the first “test” of my extended warranty since I’m at 38K miles.

 

[DSN46]

Does anyone still reading this thread know if using the "valve hack" in the heater hose would actually cause any harm to the system? For instance, shutting off flow to the heater core altogether during the hottest months... would that do any damage to the system by not allowing any flow?
This same hack had to be performed on my 05 F250 and it worked. I don't trust the work ethic of the dealership where I live. I'm not ready to hand over my truck to them yet.
Thank you to anyone who can advise the rest of us on this.

James

 

[securityguy]

Does anyone still reading this thread know if using the "valve hack" in the heater hose would actually cause any harm to the system? For instance, shutting off flow to the heater core altogether during the hottest months... would that do any damage to the system by not allowing any flow?
This same hack had to be performed on my 05 F250 and it worked. I don't trust the work ethic of the dealership where I live. I'm not ready to hand over my truck to them yet.
Thank you to anyone who can advise the rest of us on this.

James

I would advise against the hack and get the TSB performed so it's 100% the way it should be.

 

[brian42]

Does anyone still reading this thread know if using the "valve hack" in the heater hose would actually cause any harm to the system? For instance, shutting off flow to the heater core altogether during the hottest months... would that do any damage to the system by not allowing any flow?
This same hack had to be performed on my 05 F250 and it worked. I don't trust the work ethic of the dealership where I live. I'm not ready to hand over my truck to them yet.
Thank you to anyone who can advise the rest of us on this.

James

I had a ball valve on my 2003 Ford F-250 for years with no issue. I only used one valve so that it only affected flow and there weren't any pressure issues with an isolated section.

That was an old truck so I didn't have a warranty and did plenty of other non-OEM things to it (plus there was no 'fix' for it). With my new truck...

I would advise against the hack and get the TSB performed so it's 100% the way it should be.

What securityguy said. With all the stuff on these trucks I would stick to what the factory has done/will do, especially if it's still under warranty.

I'm under my extended warranty now and will gladly pay my $100 deductible for the TSB repair instead of hacking up my 2-year-old truck for a 'custom' install.

Plus I lived the ball valve dream for 10 years. Not a fan of having to pop the hood every time I want to adjust temperature. Yes, they have remote controlled valves but I am not interested in doing a lot of work-arounds and custom stuff until my warranty runs out in 2026.

Just my .02

 

[securityguy]

I had a ball valve on my 2003 Ford F-250 for years with no issue. I only used one valve so that it only affected flow and there weren't any pressure issues with an isolated section.

That was an old truck so I didn't have a warranty and did plenty of other non-OEM things to it (plus there was no 'fix' for it). With my new truck...


What securityguy said. With all the stuff on these trucks I would stick to what the factory has done/will do, especially if it's still under warranty.

I'm under my extended warranty now and will gladly pay my $100 deductible for the TSB repair instead of hacking up my 2-year-old truck for a 'custom' install.

Plus I lived the ball valve dream for 10 years. Not a fan of having to pop the hood every time I want to adjust temperature. Yes, they have remote controlled valves but I am not interested in doing a lot of work-arounds and custom stuff until my warranty runs out in 2026.

Just my .02

If there is an active TSB, I don't think you need to pay anything under your warranty if you are experiencing this issue.

 

[DSN46]

I just don't know if I want my entire dash torn out... too much to go wrong putting it all back together. Gotta decide by this summer I guess.

 

[PostPremium]

Has anyone confirmed that the recent builds coming off the line have the updated TSB design?

post

 

[securityguy]

Has anyone confirmed that the recent builds coming off the line have the updated TSB design?

post

Yep! Only impacts 2019-2020 trucks.

 

[brian42]

If there is an active TSB, I don't think you need to pay anything under your warranty if you are experiencing this issue.

I do if I'm at 38,800 miles.

I made one last 'free' visit in December (35,800 miles) but they refused to do the repair as they "could not reproduce the problem" and I did not have a paper copy of the TSB to show them that no test needed to be performed.

Last week I had an acrid odor in the cab and now my map lights don't work at all. When I take the truck in to get that fixed I will bring the TSB and try to get them to do the repair.

Since it's only $100 per visit I will pile on as much as I can to get my money's worth at the service desk.

 

[392DCGC]

I do if I'm at 38,800 miles.

I made one last 'free' visit in December (35,800 miles) but they refused to do the repair as they "could not reproduce the problem" and I did not have a paper copy of the TSB to show them that no test needed to be performed.

Last week I had an acrid odor in the cab and now my map lights don't work at all. When I take the truck in to get that fixed I will bring the TSB and try to get them to do the repair.

Since it's only $100 per visit I will pile on as much as I can to get my money's worth at the service desk.

If you're referring to the Mopar extended service contract, it's highly unlikely it will cover a TSB repair. As long as everything is functional, they have no reason to pay out a claim to improve/update your HVAC to the current revision. Your best bet is to point out that you had the issue under warranty, and get RAM to goodwill cover the TSB. I also wouldn't expect them to do anything about a smelly odor or lights not working (unless it's an electrical issue). Water leaks aren't covered. Odor/mildew removal isn't covered. Lamp replacement isn't covered. Pretty much only mechanical and electrical failure is covered by the plan.

 

[brian42]

It is definitely an electrical failure. I’ve smelled burnt circuits before. I will double check the extended warranty wording to make sure I phrase it right.

The items in the TSB are listed in the extended warranty coverage. I’ve complained about the A/C 5 times under warranty and hope they will honor the TSB.

 

[ac1dd]

It is definitely an electrical failure. I’ve smelled burnt circuits before. I will double check the extended warranty wording to make sure I phrase it right.

The items in the TSB are listed in the extended warranty coverage. I’ve complained about the A/C 5 times under warranty and hope they will honor the TSB.

Call Chrysler Corporate and start a ticket. You have the records that show you were concerned about the AC performance multiple times before the warranty runs out, they MUST repair it. The TSB only says
"if the customer reports concern" it does NOT require the dealer to perform tests before the TSB work.

Do NOT let them alone until they perform the TSB "per directed in its entirety by FCA.

I have a feeling that some dealers are going to not replace ALL the specified components even with the TSB ordering it. People are going to have to pester them and get proof that the parts were actually replaced.

 

[brian42]

Call Chrysler Corporate and start a ticket. You have the records that show you were concerned about the AC performance multiple times before the warranty runs out, they MUST repair it. The TSB only says
"if the customer reports concern" it does NOT require the dealer to perform tests before the TSB work.

Do NOT let them alone until they perform the TSB "per directed in its entirety by FCA.

I have a feeling that some dealers are going to not replace ALL the specified components even with the TSB ordering it. People are going to have to pester them and get proof that the parts were actually replaced.

I started a ticket with @RamCares and had a case manager assigned. I wanted to hedge my bets if the dealership came back at me since I was at the edge of the basic warranty. The dealership said 'no' and, after 3 weeks of "discussions" with my FCA case manager, they told me they had to side with the dealerships decision to not fix my truck.

 

[securityguy]

I started a ticket with @RamCares and had a case manager assigned. I wanted to hedge my bets if the dealership came back at me since I was at the edge of the basic warranty. The dealership said 'no' and, after 3 weeks of "discussions" with my FCA case manager, they told me they had to side with the dealerships decision to not fix my truck.

Did they give you their reason why?

 

[brian42]

Did they give you their reason why?

I discussed the TSB with my case manager and read him the part about "if customer complains" in the symptoms and that no test was required. He took down all the information and passed it to the "team" that reviews the case. We had several discussions over the course of 2 weeks and in the end he told me that "I have to side with the decision of the dealership" as they saw the truck and he didn't.

Waste of my time as he would not look at the TSB, let me send it to him, or even acknowledge that there was a chance that the dealership did not follow the guidelines published in an official FCA procedure.

I'm not going to give up but will be armed with a printout of the TSB and extended warranty with the applicable sections highlighted to discuss before I even turn over my key to the service desk next time.