5th Gen Stock Stereo Upgrade Options?

[Akpilot]

With the JL C1-690tx being 4 ohm, did you notice lower volume? Crutchfield is telling me that will be an issue. And just to be clear, you used this speaker in all four doors and fit was ok (recognizing Yoadrian's comment about tucking the wire correctly).

It’s plenty loud, and I like loud. I havent maxed volume out because it would be to much. Unless I’m listening to FM. That brings up a question I had. My radio reception sucks. Half the local stations I listen to are now barely coming in and very quite. So I turn volume up and forget and then switch stations and BLAM its super loud. This is before and after speaker swaps. Anybody else have issues?

Sorry i digressed, Yes the 6x9’s are In all 4 doors.
Honestly while waiting for the tint guys to finish I ended up buying the speakers, and since they had the door panels off anyway I had them do the installation. They didn’t have anything to say about fitment issues.
I do have the JL C2 3.5”s on the way so I’m excited to see how that sounds. The dash speakers are not keeping up with the 6x9’s and I think it will round it out nicely after.

 

[YoAdrian]

Gotcha. My bad. I probably read that somewhere amd forgot. We will be starting a total stock guy and adding a whole new system Saturday. Wish me luck.

So hey @Bacoviah any updates on that install? So much to learn with the new model, even if it didn’t change the stock stereo systems too much.

 

[Bacoviah]

So hey @Bacoviah any updates on that install? So much to learn with the new model, even if it didn’t change the stock stereo systems too much.

My buddy has a CNC and is making the box as we speak. Should have it this weekend. All equipment and parts have been bought. It will be a total gut job. Every square inch of the interior will be deadened with CLD Tiles, ccf, and mlv on the floor.

The plan is as long as the weather holds up to have it knocked out the weekend of 17-18. It will be a big job but with 3 of us I think we can do it. I’ll post pics of the box when I pick it up.

 

[YoAdrian]

My buddy has a CNC and is making the box as we speak. Should have it this weekend. All equipment and parts have been bought. It will be a total gut job. Every square inch of the interior will be deadened with CLD Tiles, ccf, and mlv on the floor.

The plan is as long as the weather holds up to have it knocked out the weekend of 17-18. It will be a big job but with 3 of us I think we can do it. I’ll post pics of the box when I pick it up.

Awesome (CNC *drool*) can’t wait to see it coming together!

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Good question. I know you asked AKPilot, but I’ll mention that the higher impedance (4 ohm vs 2 ohm) can be offset by a higher sensitivity rating regarding volume/watt. My JL C2s have a relatively high 93 dB sensitivity... no idea what the stock sensitivity was but it proved to overcome the higher impedance.

I know the dash speaker out of the 6 speaker system was 8 ohm from your post, Did you happen to measure impedance on the factory 6x9 out of the front door and out of the rear door. Just curious since the system has the 3.5 and 6x9 running in parallel on the front channel and the rear door 6x9 on its own channel I'm wondering if the radio has different impedance on the front versus rear or if the front door is also 8 ohm like the dash speaker they would combine for a 4 ohm impedance for the pair and if the rear door 6x9 was a 4 ohm speaker then everything would be 4 ohm all around and would explain why you aren't seeing volume issues by running the 4 ohm speakers. I wanted to go with JL C2's on my alpine system for the dash but wasn't sure how much of a hit I would take on volume even with the high sensitivity so I went with the JBL GX302 at 2.3 ohms even though the sensitivity at 91 dB is less than the JL's.

 

[YoAdrian]

I know the dash speaker out of the 6 speaker system was 8 ohm from your post, Did you happen to measure impedance on the factory 6x9 out of the front door and out of the rear door. Just curious since the system has the 3.5 and 6x9 running in parallel on the front channel and the rear door 6x9 on its own channel I'm wondering if the radio has different impedance on the front versus rear or if the front door is also 8 ohm like the dash speaker they would combine for a 4 ohm impedance for the pair and if the rear door 6x9 was a 4 ohm speaker then everything would be 4 ohm all around and would explain why you aren't seeing volume issues by running the 4 ohm speakers. I wanted to go with JL C2's on my alpine system for the dash but wasn't sure how much of a hit I would take on volume even with the high sensitivity so I went with the JBL GX302 at 2.3 ohms even though the sensitivity at 91 dB is less than the JL's.

Love that question especially with the weird stock impedance situation... but I dug the 6x9s out of the trash and measured em. All four are nominally 2 ohm impedance (measure 1.7 resistance) with same part number.

As a baseline to aim for, I can tell you that the impedance/sensitivity combination of the JL C2 3.5s and 6x9s results in perfect (IMO) volume balance and a nice soundstage with uconnect balance centered. If you go with another brand I recommend looking for the same specs, or if you go with 2 ohm impedance speaks then aim for a 3dB lower sensitivity rating to offset. Note sensitivity ratings come in two flavors so make sure you compare apples to apples. Photo evidence:

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Love that question especially with the weird stock impedance situation... but I dug the 6x9s out of the trash and measured em. All four are nominally 2 ohm impedance (measure 1.7 resistance) with same part number.

As a baseline to aim for, I can tell you that the impedance/sensitivity combination of the JL C2 3.5s and 6x9s results in perfect (IMO) volume balance and a nice soundstage with uconnect balance centered. If you go with another brand I recommend looking for the same specs, or if you go with 2 ohm impedance speaks then aim for a 3dB lower sensitivity rating to offset. Note sensitivity ratings come in two flavors so make sure you compare apples to apples. Photo evidence:
View attachment 7810

Interesting, so the front channel sees 1.6 ohms with the 3.5 and 6x9 in parallel and 2 ohms on the rear with the factory and now 2 ohms with your JLs in parallel on the front and 4 ohms on the rear channel, probably balances the sound stage nicely. Kind of surprised the factory unit has enough to push them. On another note, I had my rear door panel off, I didn't pull the 6x9 but it looks like they used the exact same speaker in the base system as the alpine.

 

[ksn240]

Love seeing all the progress and info coming out. I've got the Alpine system but plan on replacing all the speakers and adding a bigger sub later on. Curious to see what impedance all the speakers are in the Alpine so I can start planning it all out and put some real speakers in.

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Love seeing all the progress and info coming out. I've got the Alpine system but plan on replacing all the speakers and adding a bigger sub later on. Curious to see what impedance all the speakers are in the Alpine so I can start planning it all out and put some real speakers in.

2 ohm on everything. Heres the breakdown on the alpine and HK.

Alpine
3 - 3.5" mids in the dash
2 - 6x9 front doors
2 - 6x9 rear doors
2 - 3.5" mids in the rear head liner
1 - 10" sub
506 watts total with a 12 channel amplifier. each speaker is on it's channel and the subwoofer is a triple voice coil so each voice coil is on it's own channel. The lack of tweeters in the system make for the crappy highs.

HK
3 - 3.5" coaxial with 1" tweeter in the dash
2 - 3.5" coaxial with 1" tweeter in the front doors
2 - 6x9 front doors
2 - 6x9 rear doors
2 - 3.5" coaxials with 1" tweeter in the rear head liner
1 - 10" sub
900 watts total with a 12 channel amplifier. 12 speaker locations, single voice coil sub, the 3.5 and 1" tweeter share a channel at each location. Bringing total speaker count to 19.

 

[ksn240]

2 ohm on everything. Heres the breakdown on the alpine and HK.

Alpine
3 - 3.5" mids in the dash
2 - 6x9 front doors
2 - 6x9 rear doors
2 - 3.5" mids in the rear head liner
1 - 10" sub
506 watts total with a 12 channel amplifier. each speaker is on it's channel and the subwoofer is a triple voice coil so each voice coil is on it's own channel. The lack of tweeters in the system make for the crappy highs.

HK
3 - 3.5" coaxial with 1" tweeter in the dash
2 - 3.5" coaxial with 1" tweeter in the front doors
2 - 6x9 front doors
2 - 6x9 rear doors
2 - 3.5" coaxials with 1" tweeter in the rear head liner
1 - 10" sub
900 watts total with a 12 channel amplifier. 12 speaker locations, single voice coil sub, the 3.5 and 1" tweeter share a channel at each location. Bringing total speaker count to 19.

Awesome! Thanks for the breakdown.

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Awesome! Thanks for the breakdown.

No problem, CD technologies offers several different 6x9's in 2 ohms. They actually offer a complete ram specific package to upgrade the 6 speaker system. It was made for the DS but would probably work in the DT.

 

[ksn240]

No problem, CD technologies offers several different 6x9's in 2 ohms. They actually offer a complete ram specific package to upgrade the 6 speaker system. It was made for the DS but would probably work in the DT.

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Seems there are very few 2 ohm options available. Any recomendations? Would it hurt to use 4 ohm speakers?

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

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Seems there are very few 2 ohm options available. Any recomendations? Would it hurt to use 4 ohm speakers?

CDT Audio - I'd probably go with the CL69s2.
https://www.cdtaudio.com/2ohm/subwoofers-2ohm/es690cfs2.php
https://www.cdtaudio.com/2ohm/subwoofers-2ohm/cl69s2.php
https://www.cdtaudio.com/2ohm/subwoofers-2ohm/hd690cfs2.php

You typically can't go the other way and run 2 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm amp unless it is specifically 2 ohm stable. It doesn't hurt a system to use higher impedance speakers you just get less watts out of a 2 ohm system when connected to a 4 ohm speaker which results in lower SPL at the same volume setting. The speakers sensitivity also dictates this as well. like yoadrian mentioned in his post you have to pay attention to how they rate their sensitivity as well to makes sure you are comparing apples to apples. You will typically see sensitivity ratings given 2 ways 1) SPL at one meter driven by one watt or 2) SPL at one meter driven by 2.83 Volts
This is basically efficiency of the speaker the higher the number the louder it will be at a given power level. Typical 3 dB difference in sensitivity requires half the power.

Example
Speaker A - 85 dB sensitivity 1W@1m
Speaker B - 88 dB sensitivty 1W@1m
To get the same SPL speaker A requires 100 watts, Speaker B requires 50 Watts.
What this means is higher sensitivity speakers can overcome the power loss caused by their higher impedance.
What no one knows is the sensitivity of the factory speakers. But they're cheap so its probably low.

Secondly to the apples to apple thing when it comes to sensitivity. And this really only holds true for 4 ohm speaker comparison.
Speaker a sens = 88 dB 1w/1m
Speaker b sens = 91 dB 2.83V/1m you have to subtract 3 dB from this rating to get an apples to apples comparison to speaker A because its sensitivity was given at 1w/1m.
This has to do with impedance values and the way things are measured so its critical that the speaker sensitivity rating are given for the same method of measurement or you have to convert, and the -3 dB is only valid for 4 ohm nominal speakers. so comparing 2 ohm speakers is different. If you are looking at 2 different speakers and want to know how they compare just post em and I'll take a look. yoadrian and WRH know their audio as well so they could probably chime in also.

 

[YoAdrian]

I know the dash speaker out of the 6 speaker system was 8 ohm from your post, Did you happen to measure impedance on the factory 6x9 out of the front door and out of the rear door. Just curious since the system has the 3.5 and 6x9 running in parallel on the front channel and the rear door 6x9 on its own channel I'm wondering if the radio has different impedance on the front versus rear or if the front door is also 8 ohm like the dash speaker they would combine for a 4 ohm impedance for the pair and if the rear door 6x9 was a 4 ohm speaker then everything would be 4 ohm all around and would explain why you aren't seeing volume issues by running the 4 ohm speakers. I wanted to go with JL C2's on my alpine system for the dash but wasn't sure how much of a hit I would take on volume even with the high sensitivity so I went with the JBL GX302 at 2.3 ohms even though the sensitivity at 91 dB is less than the JL's.

CDT Audio - I'd probably go with the CL69s2.
https://www.cdtaudio.com/2ohm/subwoofers-2ohm/es690cfs2.php
https://www.cdtaudio.com/2ohm/subwoofers-2ohm/cl69s2.php
https://www.cdtaudio.com/2ohm/subwoofers-2ohm/hd690cfs2.php

You typically can't go the other way and run 2 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm amp unless it is specifically 2 ohm stable. It doesn't hurt a system to use higher impedance speakers you just get less watts out of a 2 ohm system when connected to a 4 ohm speaker which results in lower SPL at the same volume setting. The speakers sensitivity also dictates this as well. like yoadrian mentioned in his post you have to pay attention to how they rate their sensitivity as well to makes sure you are comparing apples to apples. You will typically see sensitivity ratings given 2 ways 1) SPL at one meter driven by one watt or 2) SPL at one meter driven by 2.83 Volts
This is basically efficiency of the speaker the higher the number the louder it will be at a given power level. Typical 3 dB difference in sensitivity requires half the power.

Example
Speaker A - 85 dB sensitivity 1W@1m
Speaker B - 88 dB sensitivty 1W@1m
To get the same SPL speaker A requires 100 watts, Speaker B requires 50 Watts.
What this means is higher sensitivity speakers can overcome the power loss caused by their higher impedance.
What no one knows is the sensitivity of the factory speakers. But they're cheap so its probably low.

Secondly to the apples to apple thing when it comes to sensitivity. And this really only holds true for 4 ohm speaker comparison.
Speaker a sens = 88 dB 1w/1m
Speaker b sens = 91 dB 2.83V/1m you have to subtract 3 dB from this rating to get an apples to apples comparison to speaker A because its sensitivity was given at 1w/1m.
This has to do with impedance values and the way things are measured so its critical that the speaker sensitivity rating are given for the same method of measurement or you have to convert, and the -3 dB is only valid for 4 ohm nominal speakers. so comparing 2 ohm speakers is different. If you are looking at 2 different speakers and want to know how they compare just post em and I'll take a look. yoadrian and WRH know their audio as well so they could probably chime in also.

Hail fellow nerd! Honestly this analysis helped me get good sound out of my first purchase (after a little planning)... I was worried there would be more trial and error ($)... but the numbers work for you if you learn about them!

 

[YoAdrian]

Intrigued... Hey @Billet1500 4x4 have you listened to those CDTs and if so how would you rate them compared to JLs or others in that price range? My C2s were a little bit cheaper, but still pretty smoove and they operate well on the head unit power so are a nice cheap-ish upgrade. CDTs seem like a promising option too though, just hadn’t heard of them.

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Hail fellow nerd! Honestly this analysis helped me get good sound out of my first purchase (after a little planning)... I was worried there would be more trial and error ($)... but the numbers work for you if you learn about them!

Yup nerd through and through, I can't do anything without knowing every aspect of how something works.

I have ran CDTs before, but never their 6x9s, Typically I would go with the hd642 for the front sound stage hd62 in the rear push them at 150 watts. Amazing sound for the price, probably better than a JL C5. I can't speak to the cl series 6x9s but they are pretty reasonably priced and I might give them a shot. Gotta be way better than the factory garbage.

 

[Kork]

Looking at low cost options here which would you go with? Obviously asking some of the experts when it comes to potential fit, along with the ohm/impedance issues.

Kicker
Dash: 43CSC354
Doors: 43CSC6934

JBL
Dash: GX302
Doors: GX962 or 963

I found these two sets poking around Crutchfield. I’m open to other options, just looking for a set that would complement each other to provide a modest increase over stock 6 speaker system without using an amp and hopefully without major fit/volume/anc issues.

 

[Leadbedr]

Looking at low cost options here which would you go with? Obviously asking some of the experts when it comes to potential fit, along with the ohm/impedance issues.

Kicker
Dash: 43CSC354
Doors: 43CSC6934

JBL
Dash: GX302
Doors: GX962 or 963

I found these two sets poking around Crutchfield. I’m open to other options, just looking for a set that would complement each other to provide a modest increase over stock 6 speaker system without using an amp and hopefully without major fit/volume/anc issues.

Ii just got the JBL's. I only had time to install the dash speakers so far. But they sound 100% better. I cant wait to get the doors in.
They are a direct fit. If you're trying to go the inexpensive route, I would have no problems suggesting the JBLs

 

[Kork]

Ii just got the JBL's. I only had time to install the dash speakers so far. But they sound 100% better. I cant wait to get the doors in.
They are a direct fit. If you're trying to go the inexpensive route, I would have no problems suggesting the JBLs

Terrific! 72-6514 harnesses look good for the doors? Let us know how the door install goes and how it sounds after!

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Ii just got the JBL's. I only had time to install the dash speakers so far. But they sound 100% better. I cant wait to get the doors in.
They are a direct fit. If you're trying to go the inexpensive route, I would have no problems suggesting the JBLs

Do you have the 6 speaker system?