3.21. vs 3.92 gear

[silver billet]

No, they aren't. They're not even the same trim. They have different aerodynamics, different tires (not just different sizes), and different software.

Aerodynamics don't come into play until 50 or above. Definitely not when towing and the test takes 20 seconds to hit 60 in both trucks. They have identical software. Trim doesn't make a difference either.

I haven't seen anything closer, but I'm not the one making pronouncements from this fairly useless "test."

But you guys do make pronouncements; you're all going on about how much faster the 3.92 feels, and here we have a test that is done with very similar trucks showing that the 3.21 can be faster. All I'm saying, is that the "feels" is correct; it's a feeling, because the 3.92 upshift occurs at a lower speed than the 3.21 so it feels like its going faster, but the data is suggesting there is very little difference, if any.

 

[HSKR R/T]

The one test they really did that left me scratching my head is when they tested the new 6.6 gas engine in the Chevy 2500. They put the pedal down and drive up the hill, but the transmission needs to be better tuned (so take off points for that); so instead of downshifting and running at 4000 rpms, it's sitting there lugging at 2000 rpms for a few minutes. Then they say "this truck is 3 minutes slower than the Ford 7.3". No it's not, not really, it needs better shifting strategy but most guys using that truck would have just forced the downshift. It's definitely slower than the 7.3, but since the HP and torque numbers are quite similar, it won't be 3 minutes differnce despite the 10 speed advantage from the ford.

They test to basically let the trucks do what they are tuned to do without manually changing anything. Technically this gives a more accurate comparison as people can't say, well you effected the outcome by manually shifting it, versus letting it do what it was programmed to do.

 

[silver billet]

The taller tires on the 3.92 have more rotational weight, which is a lot different that static weight. But also effectively changes the gear ratio when compared to another truck with different tire size. It would effectively make make it a lower(numerical) gear since transmission ratios aren't changed with tire sizes.

Someone on that forum did the math and said the 3.92 was reduced to 3.62. It wasn't reduced to less than the 3.21 and yet the 3.21 beat it in every acceleration test.

 

[silver billet]

They test to basically let the trucks do what they are tuned to do without manually changing anything. Technically this gives a more accurate comparison as people can't say, well you effected the outcome by manually shifting it, versus letting it do what it was programmed to do.

In this case, they should have done two runs and noted the difference in "blindly charging up a hill" vs "driving while using your noggin".

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Aerodynamics don't come into play until 50 or above. Definitely not when towing and the test takes 20 seconds to hit 60 in both trucks. They have identical software. Trim doesn't make a difference either.

Nonsense. If we're going to report these measurables down to the hundredths, things like aerodynamics, trim, and software (all different between the trucks) do matter. Or, they matter if we care about useful data.

But you guys do make pronouncements; you're all going on about how much faster the 3.92 feels, and here we have a test that is done with very similar trucks showing that the 3.21 can be faster. All I'm saying, is that the "feels" is correct; it's a feeling, because the 3.92 upshift occurs at a lower speed than the 3.21 so it feels like its going faster, but the data is suggesting there is very little difference, if any.

Leave the "you guys" crap for someone else. The only assertion I've made is that the test you provided sucks...because it does.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Someone on that forum did the math and said the 3.92 was reduced to 3.62. It wasn't reduced to less than the 3.21 and yet the 3.21 beat it in every acceleration test.

"Similar" side by side(ish) comparison. Last year at my local 1/8th mile drag strip. Yes, I take my Ram to the drag strip. There was another Ram running that night, and while we never got lined up head to head, his times were consistently 1/2 second or more slower than mine. He had 3.21 gears, I have 3.92. both 4x4 BigHorns, but mine has ORP so extra weight from skid plates and all terrain tires, vs his more touring style.

 

[silver billet]

Nonsense. If we're going to report these measurables down to the hundredths, things like aerodynamics, trim, and software (all different between the trucks) do matter. Or, they matter if we care about useful data.

For the second time: there is no difference in software, you're grasping at straws here.

And missing the point; if a different front grill can make the 3.21 equal/faster to a 3.92 down to hundredths of a second, then the 3.92 is kind of useless isn't it? I mean if the 3.92 was giving 2 seconds better 0 to 60 then I'd give that point to you, but obviously other very miniscule differences in the truck matter more than the 3.92, so it's a pointless option if you just care about 0 to 60.

Leave the "you guys" crap for someone else. The only assertion I've made is that the test you provided sucks...because it does.

I don't keep a record of who is saying exactly what; fine, you never made the claim, but others in this thread and others have, literally every time this discussion comes up. The test is a very good indication of how little 3.92 matters, despite some not liking the results. I'm not going to claim the 3.21 is faster, but I am going to claim that any differences are minor and not worth worrying about especially if you prefer MPG; you're not sacrificing power by getting the 3.21.

 

[silver billet]

"Similar" side by side(ish) comparison. Last year at my local 1/8th mile drag strip. Yes, I take my Ram to the drag strip. There was another Ram running that night, and while we never got lined up head to head, his times were consistently 1/2 second or more slower than mine. He had 3.21 gears, I have 3.92. both 4x4 BigHorns, but mine has ORP so extra weight from skid plates and all terrain tires, vs his more touring style.

Drivers matter too; I don't know if they used the same driver in the test I posted, but again this isn't about me making the claim that one is X seconds faster; I'm simply saying the difference is pretty insignifant unless you really are drag racing or going off road. The fact that different tests are getting different results kind of proves this; if it's not major enough to be consistently showing in every test with significant differences, then it's not major at all.

 

[devildodge]

Rear gear, octane and oil...such great dividers

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

For the second time: there is no difference in software, you're grasping at straws here.

And missing the point; if a different front grill can make the 3.21 equal/faster to a 3.92 down to hundredths of a second, then the 3.92 is kind of useless isn't it? I mean if the 3.92 was giving 2 seconds better 0 to 60 then I'd give that point to you, but obviously other very miniscule differences in the truck matter more than the 3.92, so it's a pointless option if you just care about 0 to 60.

Say it a third time. Won't make it true.

I think you continue to miss the point. It's not the different front grill, the different tires, the different tune, the different options, or the different gears.

It's all of it that's different that introduces several variables to this "test."

I don't keep a record of who is saying exactly what; fine, you never made the claim, but others in this thread and others have, literally every time this discussion comes up. The test is a very good indication of how little 3.92 matters, despite some not liking the results. I'm not going to claim the 3.21 is faster, but I am going to claim that any differences are minor and not worth worrying about especially if you prefer MPG; you're not sacrificing power by getting the 3.21.

That's all fine. Just pointing out that you're barking up the wrong tree with that comment.

I don't think MPG is something to worry about, either. So why are you arguing for 3.21s? Why are you arguing anything at all if it doesn't matter in any way?

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Rear gear, octane and oil...such great dividers

You forgot payload.

 

[silver billet]

Say it a third time. Won't make it true.

I think you continue to miss the point. It's not the different front grill, the different tires, the different tune, the different options, or the different gears.

It's all of it that's different that introduces several variables to this "test."

If you want to make the claim that there is different engine/drive train tuning then you need to post the proof here. There is no difference.

And if all those tiny insignificant differences add up enough to slow a 3.92 worse than a 3.21, then the 3.92 can't be all that significant, can it?

Simple math really.

 

[ferraiolo1]

. So why are you arguing for 3.21s? Why are you arguing anything at all if it doesn't matter in any way?

Probably because one isnt any better than the other, they are just different, for different uses of the truck.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

If you want to make the claim that there is different engine/drive train tuning then you need to post the proof here. There is no difference.

And if all those tiny insignificant differences add up enough to slow a 3.92 worse than a 3.21, then the 3.92 can't be all that significant, can it?

Simple math really.

No, I don't need to do that. I'm not here to prove anything to you except that your test doesn't show what you claim that it shows.

3.92 and 3.21 are different. Simple math and all that.

 

[silver billet]

I don't think MPG is something to worry about, either. So why are you arguing for 3.21s? Why are you arguing anything at all if it doesn't matter in any way?

MPG is the one difference that matters to most people; and a 2 to 3 mpg difference at todays gas prices matters.

 

[silver billet]

No, I don't need to do that. I'm not here to prove anything to you except that your test doesn't show what you claim that it shows.

So you're going to dismiss a test with actual data, based on an opinion you have presented, using a "fact" that you refuse to support.

Logic at its finest.

I think I'm done in this thread guys, have a great day.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Drivers matter too; I don't know if they used the same driver in the test I posted, but again this isn't about me making the claim that one is X seconds faster; I'm simply saying the difference is pretty insignifant unless you really are drag racing or going off road. The fact that different tests are getting different results kind of proves this; if it's not major enough to be consistently showing in every test with significant differences, then it's not major at all.

You are giving weight to the numbers from the Truck trend test to support your opinion. If you want to use those numbers to make claims, then there is no way I should have been faster than the other Ram that night at the track. Truck Trend 0-60 time was half a second faster in 3.21 truck compared to 3.92 truck. If that was correct, then even a bad driver with 3.21 should still be able to out accelerate a 3.92 truck on the drag strip. There was more difference between those two trucks than just rear gear ratio effecting the times.

We both like our choice in trucks. We both have our reasons for the choices. Each one does what we want it to do. Neither is "better" or "worse" than the other.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Drivers matter too; I don't know if they used the same driver in the test I posted, but again this isn't about me making the claim that one is X seconds faster; I'm simply saying the difference is pretty insignifant unless you really are drag racing or going off road. The fact that different tests are getting different results kind of proves this; if it's not major enough to be consistently showing in every test with significant differences, then it's not major at all.

And driver doesn't matter that much on the drag strip, in trucks like these, when all you do is push the pedal to the floor and let the truck do the rest.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

MPG is the one difference that matters to most people; and a 2 to 3 mpg difference at todays gas prices matters.

*Matters to some, although I'd bet our fuel economy is probably similar.

And your test shows a difference of barely 1 MPG, even with different tires and worse aerodynamics for the truck with 3.92s.

That's not very convenient...

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

So you're going to dismiss a test with actual data, based on an opinion you have presented, using a "fact" that you refuse to support.

Logic at its finest.

I think I'm done in this thread guys, have a great day.

Remember when I said garbage in, garbage out.

Yeah, I'm going to dismiss a test that doesn't provide good data.

But bye. This was "fun."