2019 Ram Rebel Lemon...how can I give it back?

[alangsam]

I don’t think he meant “don’t make the payments” literally, more of a why would you make payments on something you’re not driving.

You have to make the payments or they will ruin your credit and repossess the car. A court will uphold that. The only way out would be through the lemon law process assuming they can’t fix it. That’s a long and arduous process where you still have to make the Payments until they agree to buy back the vehicle. Given they have only had 2 days you are a very long way from that happening. My hiss is they will be able to fix it.


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[Patsy1099]

I seriously doubt the dealership is going to do much beyond warranty repair. They might, I might be wrong, but this truck is “off their books” now and unless FCA reimburses them, they aren’t going to eat any issues related to FCA. This truck is owned by a bank now and leased to you. “Somebody” would have to buy out the lease and the only two people who are going to take a loss will either be you or FCA. Nobody else.

The dealer will take it back only if they are confident they won’t get hurt on it. So a combo of you eating of few payments, they make money off you on a new vehicle, etc OR if FCA will absorb some. If you got an awesome deal on this truck and they can flip it for a profit then they’ll do it but if you’re upside down on it already then I think you’re stuck with it. Nothing I’ve read so far rises to the level where I believe FCA will take a hit. IMO

 

[Patsy1099]

You should also have been put in a loaner of comparable value or be reimbursed for a rental. I’m sure FCA would take care of that if you’re not in a loaner vehicle already.

 

[RamCares]

2019 Ram Rebel E-Torque with 4000 miles on it.
Gets 8-11 MPGs since I got it. It sometimes has a plastic/rubber burning smell within the cab And now its developed a Wet cardboard kind of smell coming from vents. It also gears down to 1st or 2nd gear when you take your foot off the gas sometimes causing a huge drag. This is my 3rd Ram in 5 years. Honestly none of them ran like this truck. It’s messed up. Something serious is wrong with it. The in cabin smells keep my wife and kids out of it.
Then 2 days ago it quit running altogether.
It cranks for 15 seconds then makes a loud Clank.
But won’t start. Had it towed to dealer.
It’s been to the dealer twice for the MPG issues.
I’m DONE with this truck...it’s a Lease and I want to give it back. How do I go about getting out of this truck? Is there a legal process or should I just go in and ask that they pay off the lease so I can get something else? $450 / month for this truck is a sickening at this point.
I’ve only had the truck since November and it hasn’t ran right since day 1. Dealer mechanic told me it takes 15,000 miles to break in a Hemi which I know is BS. How can I get out of this?
Can I tell the dealer that I don’t want it back until it gets the advertised MPGs in the contract and all issues are fixed? Or pay off lease balance and let me get something else? I don’t want to go the lawyer route but I will if I have to. I hate to be an *** about it but this Truck isn’t right.
Thanks

Hi OldSkull,
We certainly understand your frustration at this point. We would like to take the time to document these concerns and provide you with additional assistance while your dealership works on a diagnosis. Please send us a private message with your VIN and the name of the dealer you are working with.
Lydia
Ram Social Care Specialist

 

[Rototerrier]

I agree, research the lemon law in your state.

1) It will take months
2) It is easy as long as you complete the steps required
3) Once you complete the steps (3 x in the shop or 30 days without or both or whatever else), you can then begin the process.
a) You can do it yourself which usually requires arbitration and more time out of your schedule
b) Hire a lemon law attorney, which usually is entitled to be paid by FCA/RAM, but this could vary by state. Here in GA, that's how it works and makes getting the attorney a no brainer. They take all your paperwork and jump thru all the hoops for you, and then get a check from RAM for their pound of flesh.

Being that it is a lease, I'm not sure how much money you can recoup. But I've found they are very reasonable. If you had a cap cost reduction, aka downpayment....of which I sure hope you didn't, or at least not a big one, then you would probably get some of that back. Taxes here in GA are paid up front and not "monthly", so you'd get some of that back as well. The $$$ just depends, but the general idea is that you get back whatever you didn't use.

No one gets to ride for free. But, being a lease, this is probably a little easier since you pay for what you use as you go along.

 

[VaderRebel]

No one gets to ride for free. But, being a lease, this is probably a little easier since you pay for what you use as you go along.

That's what I was meaning when I said "don't pay for a truck you can't drive" since it's obviously a flawed build and sounds like it's going to spend a lot of time at the shop. Bad investment.

Same advice as before, talk to your lending agent/bank and the general manager at the dealership. If you are a repeat customer, I'm sure they'd like to keep it that way.

But getting the ball rolling while it's in the lot is great timing... getter done!

 

[troutspinner]

Put yourself in the dealer’s shoes and then compare the people working on it like you and your work. Do you go to work every day, want to do a good job and make customers happy? Of course you do. The dealer and it’s employees are the same way. Sure, you can run into some shifty ones here and there but in the grand scheme, everyone wants to do a good job and make customers happy, they pay the salary. At the same time, you run into issues at your work, many are just minor things and someone with experience at your job knows how to correct the situation but once in a while, a difficult one comes in and it takes some time to investigate and correct....and when it can’t be corrected, a responsible and sometimes costly to the company response has to be made.

My point, be patient. That truck is a machine, not much different than your lawn mower. Yeah, there are some extra zeros involved but it isn’t like you’re losing your life’s savings because it’s down for a week or so. Frustrating, yes! I had to LL a car in the early 90s and at age 20 at the time, I felt people were trying to pull the wool over my eyes and take advantage of me while stealing every penny I had. In the end, I learned and was compensated to the point where the frustration was easily forgotten.

 

[pinkerton]

Put yourself in the dealer’s shoes and then compare the people working on it like you and your work. Do you go to work every day, want to do a good job and make customers happy? Of course you do. The dealer and it’s employees are the same way. Sure, you can run into some shifty ones here and there but in the grand scheme, everyone wants to do a good job and make customers happy, they pay the salary. At the same time, you run into issues at your work, many are just minor things and someone with experience at your job knows how to correct the situation but once in a while, a difficult one comes in and it takes some time to investigate and correct....and when it can’t be corrected, a responsible and sometimes costly to the company response has to be made.

My point, be patient. That truck is a machine, not much different than your lawn mower. Yeah, there are some extra zeros involved but it isn’t like you’re losing your life’s savings because it’s down for a week or so. Frustrating, yes! I had to LL a car in the early 90s and at age 20 at the time, I felt people were trying to pull the wool over my eyes and take advantage of me while stealing every penny I had. In the end, I learned and was compensated to the point where the frustration was easily forgotten.

Haste will always work against us in such negotiations. I tried to suggest the same point: Leave it at the dealer, arrange for alternate transportation, and keep putting the ball back in the service manager's court. You'll eventually end up with a properly fixed truck, or a new one. If you try to make a deal on a trade now, only the dealer wins.

 

[SacRebel]

OP, I have a 2019 4x4 Rebel Hemi with eTorque and at 2,747 miles I'm getting 11.8 mpg lifetime, no towing, no hauling, no mods, just straight city driving. The poor gas mileage seems to hit the Rebel particularly hard.

I have contacted the EPA (see email response below) and RamCares in writing. The EPA also provided a link to submit a "defective car complaint," which I have yet to do. After 2-weeks I haven't received a response back from Ram. These are the first two steps any consumer needs to do first before further more aggressive actions are taken. I will give Ram every opportunity to resolve the very poor gas mileage before pursuing other avenues.
___________________________________________________________________________
Thank you for your inquiry regarding why your fuel economy is lower than the EPA rating. The purpose of the fuel economy ratings is to provide consumers with estimates to use in comparing the gas mileage of different vehicles. It is not meant as a guarantee of the gas mileage each driver will achieve. Since no test can simulate all the possible conditions that affect fuel economy, such as climate, driver behavior, road condition, and car care habits, your actual mileage will always vary some from the estimates. Below, I will explain how the fuel economy ratings are calculated, why your numbers might be lower, how to get precise measurements for your fuel economy, and what other steps you can take to improve the fuel economy of your vehicle regardless of whether it meets or exceeds the expectations you have after seeing the EPA estimated mileage for your particular vehicle.

Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. The fuel economy tests (which EPA updated in 2006 to more accurately account for actual driving conditions that can lower fuel economy, such as high speed, aggressive driving, use of air conditioning, and cold temperature operation), are based on a detailed driving cycle (each car is driven in exactly the same way, for exactly the same distance, with the same second-by-second vehicle speeds, to the maximum extent possible). EPA tests at several temperatures including 20º F, 95º F, and 68-86º F, conducts some tests with the air conditioning and defrost/heater running, and performs high speed and acceleration tests up to 80 mph and 8.46 mph/second. The tests also are conducted under controlled conditions, using gasoline or diesel fuel that meet very detailed specifications. The goal of the laboratory testing is to control as many of the factors that affect fuel economy as possible, to the maximum degree that it is feasible to do so. Manufacturers test their own vehicles following EPA's test procedures—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through our own tests at the National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory (https://www.epa.gov/vehicle-and-fue...e-emissions-testing-national-vehicle-and-fuel). Additional information about fuel economy testing is available on the following websites:

• www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml
• https://www.epa.gov/compliance-and-fuel-economy-data/data-cars-used-testing-fuel-economy

It is essential that EPA's fuel economy estimates continue to be derived from controlled, repeatable laboratory tests to enable a standardized or "level playing field," comparison between all vehicle models. Although EPA's fuel economy tests are designed to reflect typical driving conditions and driver behavior, several factors can significantly affect how many miles per gallon (mpg) your car gets: how and where you drive; vehicle condition and maintenance; fuel variations; vehicle variations; and engine break-in – all of which are described on the following website:www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/factors.shtml. Because some vehicles are more sensitive to these factors than others, the impact of the changes will vary from vehicle to vehicle. Since your car is new, please keep in mind that the fuel economy of new cars and trucks improves with mileage up to approximately 20,000 miles----it especially improves in the first 1,000-2,000 miles. For hybrid vehicles, the nature of current hybrid technology -- the addition of a battery as a second source of on-board power, sophisticated control systems, and sometimes a smaller engine -- makes a hybrid's fuel economy more sensitive to certain factors, such as colder weather and air conditioning use. You can read more about EPA's fuel economy programs in our fact sheet at: https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P100IENB.PDF?Dockey=P100IENB.PDF.

Given the above information, what is the best way to get realistic "city" and "highway" fuel economy numbers for your vehicle? There is no "official" answer to that question, but we can offer you these suggestions.

· Start with a full tank of gas. By "full," we mean filling up using a pump that allows you to lock a lever in place and take your hand off the hose and nozzle. Use the lowest rate of fuel delivery offered (most nozzles have two dispensing rate settings, and some have three). Do not top off -- when the nozzle first shuts off, do not dispense any more fuel.
· Record your odometer mileage (or, if you have a trip odometer, reset it to zero).
· Drive at least half the tank, preferably 3/4 to 7/8 of the tank, before refueling.
· During the time when you are measuring the fuel economy of your vehicle, try to avoid extended idling operation and the use of a remote starter.
· For "city" driving, a minimal amount of freeway/expressway driving can be included; for "highway" driving, measure when you will be taking longer trips that are predominantly freeway, with relatively little stop-and-go and infrequent engine off/engine restarts.
· Refuel at the same station, using the same pump and nozzle if possible. At the least, refill with the same brand and grade of gasoline.
· When refilling, do it as you did in step one -- automatic flow, lowest rate, no top-off.

To calculate the fuel economy in miles per gallon, take the number of miles driven and divide it by the total gallons purchased at refueling. For an even better estimate, take the average of two or three tanks in each case (city, highway). While there are minor variations over time, this allows you to monitor the vehicle's performance. A sudden drop in fuel economy not explained by the reasons noted below tells you that you may need to have maintenance done on your car.

If you are interested in seeing what fuel economy other owners of your vehicle are getting, please visit the following website: www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList. To find out what you can do to improve the fuel economy of your car, please visit the following website: www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml. Driving efficiently and keeping your car in shape will make a difference.

Since you have raised this issue with the dealer representatives without satisfaction, you may wish to contact a customer service representative at FCA. Contact information can be found in your owner’s manual. Be sure to document your observations thoroughly. You may also wish to submit a defective car complaint at this website:https://www.usa.gov/car-complaints. Information regarding lemon laws can also be found on this site. While this may not provide you with an acceptable resolution to your specific vehicle fuel economy concern, please know that if EPA's audit testing reveals that fuel economy labels are inaccurate, EPA will require manufacturers to update the MPG values to provide consumers with the most accurate information available (seehttps://www.epa.gov/recalls/fuel-economy-label-updates).

EPA is committed to ensuring that manufacturers accurately test and report the fuel economy of their vehicles according to federal regulations in order to provide a fair comparison to consumers. It is feedback like yours that helps inform the implementation of the fuel economy program, and we appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.

We hope this information is helpful. Thank you for contacting the Office of Transportation and Air Quality.

 

[j517]

Put yourself in the dealer’s shoes and then compare the people working on it like you and your work. Do you go to work every day, want to do a good job and make customers happy? Of course you do. The dealer and it’s employees are the same way. Sure, you can run into some shifty ones here and there but in the grand scheme, everyone wants to do a good job and make customers happy, they pay the salary. At the same time, you run into issues at your work, many are just minor things and someone with experience at your job knows how to correct the situation but once in a while, a difficult one comes in and it takes some time to investigate and correct....and when it can’t be corrected, a responsible and sometimes costly to the company response has to be made.

My point, be patient. That truck is a machine, not much different than your lawn mower. Yeah, there are some extra zeros involved but it isn’t like you’re losing your life’s savings because it’s down for a week or so. Frustrating, yes! I had to LL a car in the early 90s and at age 20 at the time, I felt people were trying to pull the wool over my eyes and take advantage of me while stealing every penny I had. In the end, I learned and was compensated to the point where the frustration was easily forgotten.

ok some dealers may think that way (not) they are to rip you off make every penny they can get from you. now if you find a good sales person that is a different story. a good sales person will take care of you every way for you to return and buy another vehicle from them in the future and refer them clients.

the worst dealership in so cal is Huntington Beach dodge i took my truck there and someone took it for a joy ride to a city 40 miles away one way on the free way. they sold me a demo unit as a new unit ram was no help but when i threatened them with the NHTSB, department of consumer affairs etc they got scared and sang a different song and dance and gave me a brand new truck voided the previous deal all together.

if you need help PM i may be able to give you some ideas

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[troutspinner]

ok some dealers may think that way (not) they are to rip you off make every penny they can get from you. now if you find a good sales person that is a different story. a good sales person will take care of you every way for you to return and buy another vehicle from them in the future and refer them clients.

the worst dealership in so cal is Huntington Beach dodge i took my truck there and someone took it for a joy ride to a city 40 miles away one way on the free way. they sold me a demo unit as a new unit ram was no help but when i threatened them with the NHTSB, department of consumer affairs etc they got scared and sang a different song and dance and gave me a brand new truck voided the previous deal all together.

if you need help PM i may be able to give you some ideas

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We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. It’s all about doing business in a professional manner from the first phone call to the trade in on the next purchase. I’ve worked with many different dealers the last 20 years. Experience has taught me, be an educated consumer, realistic and professional and you’ll receive the same professionalism back.

 

[OldSkull]

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate them.
I spoke with the dealer service yesterday and they said it was a Ground Issue and they fixed it. So Maybe the Ground issue was causing the bad smells and poor performance. But They had No other explanations for the burning smells, gearing down etc... they also couldn’t help with the Bad MPGs it’s getting. The Service attendant that called me back said she didn’t know what else they could do at this point.
And if I leave the truck it will just sit in the lot.
So I went ahead and picked it up because I need the transportation. So I’ll see how it runs this weekend.
The General Manager hasn’t returned my calls. I left him a message and also had the receptionist pen a hand written message and deliver it to him.
From what I’ve gathered, it don’t look like bad gas mileage, no matter how bad it is, is grounds for LL.
So I’m going to give it the weekend to think about it. Maybe the ground issue was the culprit all along.
My wife suggested we put up with the truck and it’s issues Until the Fall sales start, then just take the financial hit and trade it in for a GMC Sierra and part ways with the Dealer and Ram for good. She don’t want to get into Lawyers etc... I really don’t either. It’s frustrating but it’s just a truck...thanks for all the replies!

 

[GANTMAN]

I wish great luck to the OP on his Rebel. I love my 2019 Rebel and average 15.1 with three tank fills and 500 miles so far.

 

[SpeedyV]

It’s frustrating but it’s just a truck...

That’s a good perspective to maintain. I wish you the best regardless of how it plays out for you.

 

[VaderRebel]

Sadly if getting advertised MPG's (or close) is that important, then the 5th Gen Rebel won't be able to satisfy. After 9000 miles I'm finally getting more out of the truck (15mpg) but was like yours all through the first few months. I was never really concerned at all, so it wasn't an issue.

The ground makes sense. It all makes sense, it's a redesign with new technology and there's gonna be problems no matter what sticker is on the tailgate, Ford, GM, Toyota. You unfortunately got dealt an unlucky hand, but given some time to enjoy it now... knowing what you know about the regen of the e-torque that causes the slow downs and the potential for improved MPG after your first oil change... could help you get some enjoyment out of the truck.

Good luck to you.

 

[pinkerton]

The OP says "8-11" mpg. I interpret this as getting as low as 8 and as high as 11. If true, this means I could jump in that truck, reset the avg mpg and drive down the street at 40mph and get between 8-11 after 10 min. If true, something is wrong with the truck (it's not a break-in issue, etc)

Again, if the above is interpreted correctly, there is SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE TRUCK

 

[OldSkull]

I know we shouldn’t expect to get the exact advertised MPGs, but 8 City 12 Highway MPGs in a new truck with 3500 miles on it is Way Way Off the mark lol.
I get around 8-9 MPG in the City and
around 11-12 on the Highway depending on the road inclines, wind etc... there has been times it’s done a little better like if I draft behind a Semi on the highway I can get up to 14-15 MPGs.
Maybe there is a break in period. But none of my other Rams were ever this bad. My 2015 Rebel was real close to its Advertised MPGs.
I realize I’m stuck with the truck until I trade it in. It’s a Lease, I wasn’t expecting to get any money back, I was just hoping to work with the dealer to switch it for another Ram even if it was a lesser trim level like a Bighorn and stay within my $450/month payment. Due to all the issues it’s having combined with low MPGs.
But I realize the dealer don’t have to work with me on that so it is what it is.
I would guess I’m not the only E Torque truck having these issues so they’ll probably be a recall at some point.
But if the ground issue fixed the burning smells then that’ll be great and I’ll be happy with that. And my wife will be more comfortable riding in it. I can live with the crappy MPGs till I trade it in. I’ll just keep it to short trips and won’t tow my dads camper or boat much this year.
If I’m getting 8-12 not towing I’d probably get 5-7 with the boat on back lol.
Thanks again for the replies.

 

[troutspinner]

I know we shouldn’t expect to get the exact advertised MPGs, but 8 City 12 Highway MPGs is Way Way Way Off the mark lol.

Just for curiosity, are you telling us the calculated miles via the truck or are you hand calculating? If by truck, who knows, maybe the ground issue is/was causing bad readings, just food for thought. Glad you got it back, if it acts up again or some of the same symptoms are there, take it in again. I know you don't want to get into legal but it is those unsatisfied service visits that win you the legal battle so it is best to address and document in the event you change your mind on legal.

 

[Patsy1099]

8-11 mpg seems incredibly low even given the issues we have heard about, especially with eTorque. Do you warm the car up every day and burn through gas that way? I think that messes up the calc. So does sitting in bumper to bumper traffic since you’re not moving. Neither of those events are the trucks fault since you’re burning fuel but not moving (0 mpg). But if you’re driving on the highway and getting those mpgs I would be shocked. I would suggest a test. Plan a trip an hour away and hand calc your miles and gas round trip.

 

[OldSkull]

Im hoping the Ground issue was the cause of a lot of the problems.I wonder how they missed it the last 2 times I took it in.

We don’t warm the truck up unless my wife is using it. I have noticed if we pick the kids up from school in the pick up loop the AVG MPGs drop quickly. So I can see how that all plays into it. But still 8-12 is pretty low.
It’s gone up a little In the last 6 months. It was a solid 8 in the city for months. Now it’s a 9+. It’s also getting warmer too. The dealer Service mechanic told me the truck may not like cold weather, and it takes longer to warm up the Trans Temp. But I’m not a mechanic so he may be right.

My wife has calculated the MPGs by hand and it’s always really close. I’m going to take it for a long highway cruise this weekend and reset the tripometers and keep my fingers crossed that the Ground issue was maybe causing it to not shift to the higher gears or something.

I’ll live with the low MPGs for now.
I’ll be happy if the burning smells are gone and the starting issues are fixed. I can see how a faulty loose ground wire somewhere could cause some of that.
So as long as the safety stuff is fixed then I’m happy enough with it for now.
I’m honestly not as mad as my posts probably make me sound lol. Just frustrated with the truck and the dealers lack of response.