2019 RAM 1500 Offroad + Max Towing -> Converting from locking diff (eLocker) to limited slip (LSD)

[travelerut]

Hey all,

So; my previous truck was a 2016 GMC - they all have factory LSD (as every car/truck ever made should! lol) but everyone has to save a buck. That being said, I've been loving my RAM minus a few early adopter hassles.

The gearing on this thing is great with the max tow package (3.92) - but you can count on always spinning one tire, even on dry roads, when you launch. In anything other than totally dry weather, may as well keep it in 4WD Auto. The truck has the Offroad package, so stock eLocker. This is mutually exclusive to the LSD. So, I called to local off-road shop to see if anyone made an LSD for this thing yet. Apparently yes, but with some caveats that I wanted to document for anyone else doing this. It's never come up, and I'd bet I'm the very first person to want this done. So Yukon (the maker of the aftermarket LSD) wanted all the notes as well because it's new to them.

The Yukon Dura Grip for 2011+ 9.25ZF rear end fits perfectly
Yukon Master Overhaul kit, performance ring & pinion gear set for 2011+ 9.25ZF also fits

The interesting bit, is that with the Max Tow package you apparently get 32 spline axles, which are 6 lug on the new body style. In all the other 1500's you get 31 spline axles - and that is what all the aftermarket LSD's I've been able to locate expect - 31 spline axles. So, they managed to lay hands on a set of 31 spline axles that they are being told are 6 lug. Haven't seen them yet - hopefully next week. So either they'll fit and we'll be good to go - or we'll have to fill in the 5 lugs and re-drill for 6 at a machine shop.

I'll update once we're done. Whatever done happens to be. Just wanted to make sure anyone else trying to add LSD to their 5th gen 1500 with Max Tow has an idea!

 

[Wakesnowb]

Hey all,

So; my previous truck was a 2016 GMC - they all have factory LSD (as every car/truck ever made should! lol) but everyone has to save a buck. That being said, I've been loving my RAM minus a few early adopter hassles.

The gearing on this thing is great with the max tow package (3.92) - but you can count on always spinning one tire, even on dry roads, when you launch. In anything other than totally dry weather, may as well keep it in 4WD Auto. The truck has the Offroad package, so stock eLocker. This is mutually exclusive to the LSD. So, I called to local off-road shop to see if anyone made an LSD for this thing yet. Apparently yes, but with some caveats that I wanted to document for anyone else doing this. It's never come up, and I'd bet I'm the very first person to want this done. So Yukon (the maker of the aftermarket LSD) wanted all the notes as well because it's new to them.

The Yukon Dura Grip for 2011+ 9.25ZF rear end fits perfectly
Yukon Master Overhaul kit, performance ring & pinion gear set for 2011+ 9.25ZF also fits

The interesting bit, is that with the Max Tow package you apparently get 32 spline axles, which are 6 lug on the new body style. In all the other 1500's you get 31 spline axles - and that is what all the aftermarket LSD's I've been able to locate expect - 31 spline axles. So, they managed to lay hands on a set of 31 spline axles that they are being told are 6 lug. Haven't seen them yet - hopefully next week. So either they'll fit and we'll be good to go - or we'll have to fill in the 5 lugs and re-drill for 6 at a machine shop.

I'll update once we're done. Whatever done happens to be. Just wanted to make sure anyone else trying to add LSD to their 5th gen 1500 with Max Tow has an idea!

So you will end up with LSD and eLocker or is the LSD going to replace the eLocker? I have the same setup without the Max Tow package (ORG with eLocker). I think with the traction control the absence of LSD is no big deal (plus they supposedly wear out after a few years anyways). From your description, on wet roads you are spinning a tire every time you go from a stop? Can't say I have that problem at all unless I try to burn out. I am also coming from a 2wd single cab basic F150 that used to slip now and then due to no weight in the back of the truck and no 4wd differential weight either. Even with that slippage I do not feel it was a big deal having no LSD, I would just back off the throttle and go slower off launch in the wet rain / stop sign paint condition. Anyways, do you really want to go through this large effort to add LSD? Curious if you will lose the eLocker or not? No problem if you feel different about the LSD and really want it, better to have it than not!

 

[Rob5589]

Does seem odd to spin a tire with TC engaged. I can barely get any tire spin on wet ground with the TC engaged, even when trying to spin em up.
Swapping out the locker is straight forward. A backlash adjustment is all that is required, and an easy to do on the 9.25.
Or save some dough and engage the locker if you are in a situation that needs extra traction.

 

[clazer]

You might consider changing rubber before getting rid of the elocker. I found the factory rubber to be slip-prone with the 3.92s. A good set of BFGs or Nittos should help. Also, as stated above, traction control should kick in and stop wheel spin- at least it did in my experience (after a little slippage).

 

[Rustydodge]

Were you aware that Ram offers a LSD but chose the offroad package with the E-locker anyway?

Keep us posted what you find out. Personally i would never remove a selectable elocker to go to a clutch type LSD setup. Previous truck had a factory LSD that i swapped for a truetrac. Current truck i'm living with is open.

 

[travelerut]

So you will end up with LSD and eLocker or is the LSD going to replace the eLocker? I have the same setup without the Max Tow package (ORG with eLocker). I think with the traction control the absence of LSD is no big deal (plus they supposedly wear out after a few years anyways). From your description, on wet roads you are spinning a tire every time you go from a stop? Can't say I have that problem at all unless I try to burn out. I am also coming from a 2wd single cab basic F150 that used to slip now and then due to no weight in the back of the truck and no 4wd differential weight either. Even with that slippage I do not feel it was a big deal having no LSD, I would just back off the throttle and go slower off launch in the wet rain / stop sign paint condition. Anyways, do you really want to go through this large effort to add LSD? Curious if you will lose the eLocker or not? No problem if you feel different about the LSD and really want it, better to have it than not!

You can't have both - so the eLocker will be gone when it's done. This thing will never go off-road so this isn't much of a concern for me. On normal roads the chances of being able to effectively use the locker are really low. Unless you're in very snowy or icy conditions. I'm in Utah - so that does happen sometimes.

So, I put 100k miles on my GMC and the LSD always worked like a champ. I do quite a bit of work with BMW's (the truck is my only practical vehicle) and I have a few BMW M-cars with factory LSD's that I've abused a LOT - those are clutch based anyway. I just think in normal driving conditions, you'd much rather have an LSD than a locker. It's always on. You don't need to stop and think about it.

A lot of my issue may have to do with the fact that mine also has the "eTorque" system (off topic but I recommend to anyone NOT to get). It's gone out twice in 20k miles and does 0 for my gas mileage. All it means to me is that when I stop, my engine turns off. It's from the "engine off" start that I get a lot of wheel spin. When the electric motor kicks in, and then the engine starts - there is a surge. It's not smooth. Expensive waste of what could have been a great feature.

I also notice it a lot when I'm in 2WD mode and it's wet. When you hit a puddle it's pretty obvious you don't have it. The electron traction control is just a tad slower than my correcting for the slide. I think the mechanical solution will be better.

----

In regards to the rubber; it's not the factory rubber - it's a nice set of BFG's. The TC does kick in after a second of wheel spin but I find that to be a little obnoxious as the poor mans TC in the dodge really just locks the opposite brake and kills the throttle. Not a fan. If the wheels don't slip hopefully it doesn't need to kick in. When rebuilding my BMW's, when adding an LSD to a non-M car that didn't have one from the factory I have to go in and code out the "e diff" (BMW's version of a poor mans LSD - same thing kill the throttle and engage the opposite brake). I can't seem to find much on coding the dodge oddly. I hope this doesn't cause any issues but I'll address them as they arise.

 

[travelerut]

Were you aware that Ram offers a LSD but chose the offroad package with the E-locker anyway?

Keep us posted what you find out. Personally i would never remove a selectable elocker to go to a clutch type LSD setup. Previous truck had a factory LSD that i swapped for a truetrac. Current truck i'm living with is open.

I think I got one of the first Limited's for sale when I got it in Sept of 2018. At the time I just picked one that was available and didn't know. Even had I know, I'm not sure I could have predicted how much not having LSD would bother me and I would have gone ahead with it anyway.

I think preference for the elocker over LSD really has to do with application. If I did any off-roading at all I'd agree with your assessment. But this thing is a highway queen that occasionally hauls one of my other cars on a trailer. Can't think of a situation in which I'd use the locking diff.

 

[Rob5589]

Take some pics of the locker after removal and post them up, or just PM them to me. I am curious as to what it looks like.

Thanks

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Hey all,

So; my previous truck was a 2016 GMC - they all have factory LSD (as every car/truck ever made should! lol) but everyone has to save a buck. That being said, I've been loving my RAM minus a few early adopter hassles.

The gearing on this thing is great with the max tow package (3.92) - but you can count on always spinning one tire, even on dry roads, when you launch. In anything other than totally dry weather, may as well keep it in 4WD Auto. The truck has the Offroad package, so stock eLocker. This is mutually exclusive to the LSD. So, I called to local off-road shop to see if anyone made an LSD for this thing yet. Apparently yes, but with some caveats that I wanted to document for anyone else doing this. It's never come up, and I'd bet I'm the very first person to want this done. So Yukon (the maker of the aftermarket LSD) wanted all the notes as well because it's new to them.

The Yukon Dura Grip for 2011+ 9.25ZF rear end fits perfectly
Yukon Master Overhaul kit, performance ring & pinion gear set for 2011+ 9.25ZF also fits

The interesting bit, is that with the Max Tow package you apparently get 32 spline axles, which are 6 lug on the new body style. In all the other 1500's you get 31 spline axles - and that is what all the aftermarket LSD's I've been able to locate expect - 31 spline axles. So, they managed to lay hands on a set of 31 spline axles that they are being told are 6 lug. Haven't seen them yet - hopefully next week. So either they'll fit and we'll be good to go - or we'll have to fill in the 5 lugs and re-drill for 6 at a machine shop.

I'll update once we're done. Whatever done happens to be. Just wanted to make sure anyone else trying to add LSD to their 5th gen 1500 with Max Tow has an idea!

Thanks for sharing this info I have been trying to get a straight answer without much luck in regards to whether the 2011+ Yukon parts work on the DT. Specifically a Dura Grip LSD as I currently have an open diff and the Hemi has no issue spinning the tires on anything other than dry pavement. By chance do you know what kind of axles they found in 31 spline RAM factory axles or Yukons? I'd like to get a set of Yukon moly axles but so far they still only show the 5 lug version for the ZF rear end.

 

[KRField]

I have a LSD on my bighorn and still get the rear slipping and kicking with traction control kicking in. I just keep it in 4Auto when it’s wet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[travelerut]

I have a LSD on my bighorn and still get the rear slipping and kicking with traction control kicking in. I just keep it in 4Auto when it’s wet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh no! Not what I wanted to hear! I guess we'll see. I'm committed at this point

 

[clazer]

In regards to the rubber; it's not the factory rubber - it's a nice set of BFG's. The TC does kick in after a second of wheel spin but I find that to be a little obnoxious as the poor mans TC in the dodge really just locks the opposite brake and kills the throttle. Not a fan. If the wheels don't slip hopefully it doesn't need to kick in. When rebuilding my BMW's, when adding an LSD to a non-M car that didn't have one from the factory I have to go in and code out the "e diff" (BMW's version of a poor mans LSD - same thing kill the throttle and engage the opposite brake). I can't seem to find much on coding the dodge oddly. I hope this doesn't cause any issues but I'll address them as they arise.

I’ll happily watch this swap! The elocker is somewhat of a marketing gimmick. A good limited slip or possibly Detroit locker would get the job done without needing to flip a dash switch.
One more question- has anyone tried using a pedal commander to lessen the throttle response off the line? Exact opposite of what most people are going for, just curious. The 3.92s do like to slip.

 

[KRField]

Oh no! Not what I wanted to hear! I guess we'll see. I'm committed at this point

I thought it was crappy factory tires. I put Falken wildpeaks on and still issues. Let me know how it works. I will say once it kick I do give it more juice when the wife is with me for fun.


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[Rustydodge]

For what its worth - I miss having an LSD but only in certain applications.

hwy and interstate traveling in ice conditions i prefer NOT having an LSD. My old truck would kick sideways in 2wd immediately as both tires would spin. Current truck i can leave in 2wd much longer as 1 tire will spin slightly but no kick out. Of course my old truck didn't have 4wd auto.

Most of my LSD or elocker uses is slow off roading needs - so either would work pretty well for me

One thing you'll learn when coming to Ram with the 3.92 (particularly from GM 5.3 pre 8/10 speed with non towing gear so practically all GMs LOL) is you really do not need much throttle to get moving.

Also, 5th gen went to slightly smaller tires than 4th gen so you have more mechanical advantage. Increasing to a true 33" all terrain tire that is slightly wider should improve your traction significantly.

 

[TimW451]

The interesting bit, is that with the Max Tow package you apparently get 32 spline axles, which are 6 lug on the new body style. In all the other 1500's you get 31 spline axles

Isn’t that because the Max Tow Package has the 9.75“ rear and the other 1500’s have the 9.25” rear? (Going from specs on ramtrucks.com)

 

[travelerut]

Thanks for sharing this info I have been trying to get a straight answer without much luck in regards to whether the 2011+ Yukon parts work on the DT. Specifically a Dura Grip LSD as I currently have an open diff and the Hemi has no issue spinning the tires on anything other than dry pavement. By chance do you know what kind of axles they found in 31 spline RAM factory axles or Yukons? I'd like to get a set of Yukon moly axles but so far they still only show the 5 lug version for the ZF rear end.

So; these are apparently the OEM RAM axles from a 2019+ RAM 1500 without Max Tow. About $600 ish for the set I think.

 

[travelerut]

Hey all,

So this is all done and worked perfectly! I have some actual part numbers and notes for posterity and I'll get some pictures up in a bit. Here are the part numbers. Make a note this conversion was for a truck with the Max Tow package. If you don't have Max Tow you probably don't need the axles as the ones listed below are the ones already on your truck:

Yukon Dura Grip for 2011 & Up Chrysler 9.25ZF rear - YDGC9.25ZF-31-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Yukon-Gear-YDGC9-25ZF-31-1-Dura-Positraction/dp/B01CDNL56O)
Yukon Master Overhaul kit for 11' & up Chrysler 9.25" ZF rear - YK C9.25ZF (https://www.amazon.com/Yukon-Gear-YK-C9-25ZF-Differential/dp/B01A7GGU00)
High Performance Yukon Ring & Pinion gear set for '11 & up Chrysler 9.25" ZF in 3.90 ratio - YG C9.25B-390B (https://www.amazon.com/Yukon-Gear-YG-C9-25B-390B-Performance/dp/B01A7GGD0M)
31 Spline 6 lug axle (Passenger) - 68272112aa (https://www.dodgeparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-axle-rear-shaft-right-68272112aa?c=az0x)
31 Spline 6 lug axle (Driver) - 68272113aa (https://www.dodgeparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-axle-rear-shaft-left-68272113aa)

And one of these guys to make the computer quit yelling at you that you don't have an e-locker anymore. I suspect that if I press the button, I'll get an error I'll need to clear. So I'll just avoid pressing the button. But it doesn't error at startup after you wire up one of these:

6 OHM LED Resistor (https://www.amazon.com/4Pcs-Aaron-6ohm-Load-Resistors/dp/B00L4V9ECY)

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Hey all,

So this is all done and worked perfectly! I have some actual part numbers and notes for posterity and I'll get some pictures up in a bit. Here are the part numbers:

Yukon Dura Grip for 2011 & Up Chrysler 9.25ZF rear - YDGC9.25ZF-31-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Yukon-Gear-YDGC9-25ZF-31-1-Dura-Positraction/dp/B01CDNL56O)
Yukon Master Overhaul kit for 11' & up Chrysler 9.25" ZF rear - YK C9.25ZF (https://www.amazon.com/Yukon-Gear-YK-C9-25ZF-Differential/dp/B01A7GGU00)
High Performance Yukon Ring & Pinion gear set for '11 & up Chrysler 9.25" ZF in 3.90 ratio - YG C9.25B-390B (https://www.amazon.com/Yukon-Gear-YG-C9-25B-390B-Performance/dp/B01A7GGD0M)
31 Spline 6 lug axle (Passenger) - 68272112aa (https://www.dodgeparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-axle-rear-shaft-right-68272112aa?c=az0x)
31 Spline 6 lug axle (Driver) - 68272113aa (https://www.dodgeparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-axle-rear-shaft-left-68272113aa)

And one of these guys to make the computer quit yelling at you that you don't have an e-locker anymore. I suspect that if I press the button, I'll get an error I'll need to clear. So I'll just avoid pressing the button. But it doesn't error at startup after you wire up one of these:

6 OHM LED Resistor (https://www.amazon.com/4Pcs-Aaron-6ohm-Load-Resistors/dp/B00L4V9ECY)

You list a new ring and pinion in your parts list. Were you not able to reuse the original ring and pinion set that was in the rear end with the Yukon LSD? I'd like to add the Yukon dura grip to my rear end that is a 3.21 open, just curious if I can resuse the R&P or if there was a problem with the ring gear bolt pattern or something?

 

[travelerut]

You list a new ring and pinion in your parts list. Were you not able to reuse the original ring and pinion set that was in the rear end with the Yukon LSD? I'd like to add the Yukon dura grip to my rear end that is a 3.21 open, just curious if I can resuse the R&P or if there was a problem with the ring gear bolt pattern or something?

Good question. This was just a preference. Relative to the overall cost it wasn't much. If you don't do this, there is a real chance that you will get a little vibration or noise as the gears generally wear together and mesh. The lower the mileage on the vehicle the less likely this is as they haven't had as much time to do that. My truck only has 23k miles on it but I'm very picky and I didn't want to have to do it all over again just in case. Seemed liked a relatively cheap "while you're in there" thing. I'm just doing the break in 100 miles now - 15-20 minute drives with periods between for cool-down. It snowed today and I can tell you it made the world of difference. Very much worth it for me.

 

[TruckDriver]

Looking forward to seeing pictures and thanks for all the documentation!

I just saw the thread and read all the way through; you're very right about TC being garbage and having 1-tire-fire off the line in anything from damp->wet conditions (especially on sealed asphalt or road paint).

I'll probably live with it and rotate tires more often, but good to know that LSD is an option!