2019 Ram 1500 5th wheel towing

[bravo1]

Just got back from the RV show and there were a lot of 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel trailers now.It seem like engineering just down size the 3/4-1 ton 5th wheel and made them smaller 29-34 feet long.And weighting in around 7800-8900 pounds.5th wheel hitch weight comes in at 1391.They have eliminated the forward closet in the master bed area, this reduced the hitch weight on the pin box.GVWR are around 10,200...Naturally aftermarket vendors were there as well and have redesigned the rear sway bar bigger in design but not much weight there, and of course AirLift was there with it's second generation air bag kit as well.Curt,Reese,B&W, all there with there designs for the frame mounts and the 5th wheel hitch attachments.Also saw a several videos with 1/2 tons turning 90 degree's now with out striking the cabs any more this might be a thing of the pass due to the redesigned from caps on the trailers.All in all looks good, on design and paper.If I considered this route,I would first see what this current 5th gen does towing fuel mileage wise, and then compare it up against this next generation 3.0 Eco Diesel mated to this next generation ZF 8 speed when it becomes available late this spring...

 

[Johnvan]

I just got back from an RV show myself. I was impressed with this fifth wheel. Towable even for a mid sized truck.


https://m.winnebagoind.com/products/fifth-wheel/2020/micro-minnie/overview

 

[slimchance]

hitch weight of 1391 ... WOW ... many of the Ram 1500 posted in Payload on this site do not have that much payload and i would be very careful to find out the GVW for the 5th wheel ... dealers tell ya all the time it is 1/2 ton tow able and then after ya buy it you find out your rig is over weight

 

[Johnvan]

I noticed some have pin weights of 1060 dry and the layout has the kitchen and most storage in the back keeping the pin weight down .
It'd work well for a couple with a quad cab which should have enough payload.

 

[bravo1]

Slim Chance,How do. My truck has a tow rating of 11,180 according to Mopar.Com owners website. My sticker on the driver's door jam indicates 1758 lbs of passenger and bed payload.All the data I collected for the trailers came right off the manufactures sticker's located on the forward left hand side of the trailer.Some had additional weight information located inside the trailer door jam but was just a repeat of the information located on the side of the trailer.All of the weight reduction came from according to 3 manufacture representatives from Forest River,Grand Design,Jayco, all agree that all weight was taken out of the front master bed room to reduce pin weight.You no longer have a washer dryer hook up located in the front closet.The cabinet space for hanging clothing was reduce to 1/2 the available space as well and is located on the aft bulkhead of the front master bedroom...What was really neat was that AirWig massive anti sway bar was really big in diameter.This will greatly reduced trailer sway left to right.Adding a air bag system will only improve your towing experience...I will make note that all the 5th wheel hitch's I look at had a cross member bed floor mounting, very similar to the previous 4th generation Ram.I just wish Ram engineering would make a puck system for the 1/2 ton trucks....The bed design has changed for the 5th gen and how it will effect mounting of 5th wheel hitch assemblies.Also Lippert Industries hitch pin box for most of the 1/2 ton towable's has a new design for the industry.It will allow for a conventional 5th wheel hitch assembly mounted in a short or standard 6ft box, without a slider and will allow for a 90 degree rotation with the front end cap being redesigned.I not sure I buy off anymore on moving to a 3/4 ton just to tow a 5th wheel anymore,I mean why would you have to sell your truck just to have the comfort and space and floor plan that a 5th wheel offer's? Putting the master bed room over the bed while towing reduce'd the length of what is behind you...Maybe now we can have our pay and liberty call all at once....

 

[bravo1]

JohnVan I saw pin weights that low on some 5th wells.You just have to realized what is really important is the amount of cargo you plan to carry both in the 5th wheel and in the truck because while you do have some room their GCWR might be exceeded, but I gather based on what we had in our 3/4 ton RAM 2500 and 5th wheel was just pot/pans/toaster/dry goods/toliet products/ nothing of any grave weight concern.Also the under floor storage area has a weigh restriction label as to stay within the GCWR of the trailer.Trailer jack, blocks of wood, tool box all have to be reduced to just to bare bones, that I see is the only difference I see between the two trucks towing 5th wheel's.

 

[slimchance]

i am also a member of the Keystone RV Forum http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/

the towing gurus agree one advantage of a 5th wheel trailer over the TT is you do not have to worry about sway with the 5th wheel because of the hitch being in the bed instead of hanging on the bumper .. so that is a plus .... i would just be leary of what a mfg and sales person tells me about towability, all you got to do is read this Ram forum sections under Towing to see examples of either the sales staff really has no idea or would rather make a sale and let the buyer deal with it .. we the buyer then have to live with it ... your truck looks like it has alot of payload so you are better off than most on this forum ... do you really think some of these 1/2 tons with 1200# payloads could pull a 5th wheel safely???

 

[bravo1]

Well Slim,we must realized that this 5th generation RAM engineering team went to great length's to improve what many and customers a like stated and that towing payload needed to be improved.Rear axle GAWR has increased to 4100 lbs now on certain models.This allowed for higher tow limits.So with a redesign frame, axles, weight savings, improvement in heat exchangers,ZF transmission mapping shift points,updated 5.7L we now have a truck that do just this.Many here may have pick there truck based on "Well I will never be towing a trailer that size's, based on old school thought.They may not also realized that a crew cab now has the ability to tow 11,000 lbs of weight.Mind you through the axle rating is a 3:92...Ford had started this back 4 years ago first with Ford breaking 12,000 barrier, with a leaf spring design, and a rather robust axle rating, "but also they only allow those rating with a 10 speed and a 3:21 axle ratio
" along with a weight savings from body material they did it.All towing must be certified now as you know per SAE standards now.GM has also increased it's towing limits as well for there 5th generation Silverado/Sierra.The question is who among customers are willing to trade there smallest travel trailer with cramp living for 2 weeks and move to a 5th wheel which will have the same trailer length as there cramped smaller trailer. and have a way better living arrangements...I believe we have arrived at this point.Slim jump in the water is like bathwater...

 

[devildodge]

These modern 1500 trucks are very capable.

They make 2500 trucks from the early 2000s and 3500 trucks from the early 90s look useless.

People have been towing big trailers forever...even with station wagons back in the day.

But people took their time, stayed to backroads. Now people are hitting the highway at ever increasing speeds.

We have a few members here who have towed 5th wheels with 1500 trucks for lots of years. Impressed the heck out of me. But that brings me to this question...

do you really think some of these 1/2 tons with 1200# payloads could pull a 5th wheel safely???

I say, this truck will pull and haul more than it is rated for everyday of the week. But maneuver, hold it's own in inclement weather, or perform in an emergency situation...gonna be hairy.

I said all of that to make these few reminders(and remember, each person has their own comfort zone...haul/tow what you feel comfortable)

1. The towing/payload calculators are for very specific trucks...90% of the time your specific truck isn't even close.
2. When they say 1/2 ton towable...they are basing this on those charts and a empty camper.
3. How they rate the trucks...passenger weight 300lbs. Option weight 100lbs. Conventional hitch 75lbs gooseneck hitch 70lbs and 250lbs for 5th wheel hitch. So for a 5th wheel you can only have 650lbs added to a base truck...look in the payload sticker thread for how much options weigh.
4. And the trailer manufacturer is only using dry weights to make these claims(most anyways)

All of that is said, just to make sure you are starting your planning without hyped numbers.

If you have ran your numbers, checked the ratings, ordered the proper equipment...your ready to tow.

The best advice given is tow what you feel comfortable. If that is a 6 foot trailer at 1000lbs or a 40 foot 5th wheel at 25k...that is what is important.

Just for a thought. I just bought a Tradesman HD...2998lbs of payload. The only option that would take away weight is the protection group...the chart says 3110... guess the protection group weighs 112 pounds...which is about what @Zeronet figured it did in the payload thread.

Good luck making these decisions...hope to hear all the great camping stories this spring, summer and fall.

 

[slimchance]

devildodge ..sounds like a nice trk you just bought

 

[Davidmurphy02]

I have a quad cab and bought it to tow a small 5th wheel – an Escape fiberglass trailer that weighs 5,000 pounds loaded with a pin weight of around 800. I ordered my Lone Star with few options – tow package, 33 gallon tank, level 1 equipment, 3.21 diff – in order to get a high payload, and I have a payload of 1,804 which should be plenty. I towed a similar small fifth wheel for many years with my 98 Ram 5.9 and love the way a fifth wheel tows vs. a bumper pull - far more stable, and shorter overall length when hitched up so easier to fit into smaller campsites.

I bought my truck last July and found that none of the hitch manufacturers had a rail bracket kit for mounting the rails in the new body style Ram. Without a truck-specific mounting kit, no one wanted to try to do a custom installation – trucks are so complex now with so many variables no one would mess with it. Reese and Curt both supposedly had rail bracket kits in the works but kept pushing out the ETA. Apparently there is a weld seam under the bed of the new body style Ram right where a bolt hole would normally go for the brackets that was giving them problems designing something to work. We have to go pick up our new trailer next month and I was getting worried that we might not be able to get hitch rails installed in time.

A couple of weeks ago I found out that Demco had come out with a rail bracket kit for the new body style, part number 8552032. Just in time for me – I got the rails and hitch installed today and now I’m all set to go pick up our new fifth wheel next month. Thought I’d share this because no one seemed to know about the Demco rail bracket kit, I actually found out about it when talking to a Demco factory rep about something else. If you’re trying to get fifth wheel rails installed in a new Ram this is the only option until Curt or Reese comes out with their own brackets.

It doesn’t matter what brand of brackets or rails you use, they are all industry standard so any rail-mounted fifth wheel hitch designed for ISR rails will fit on any rails. I wound up getting a Demco hitch also because I liked that particular hitch, takes up less space in the bed and is lighter than most fifth wheel hitches.

Another option for the new Rams is the B&W Turnover Ball, which does have a kit to fit the new body style. It mounts a removable gooseneck ball that leaves a completely flat bed when you take it out, which is a plus if you need to haul other stuff. There are a few fifth wheel hitches that come in a version that mounts to a gooseneck ball instead of rails – the Demco Recon I just bought is one and there are others.

 

[devildodge]

Glad to hear you found a hitch. Can not wait to see your Ram coupled up to that new camper @Davidmurphy02

 

[devildodge]

Another option for the new Rams is the B&W Turnover Ball,

So I have been thinking about this. SAEJ2807 rates Conventional hitch at 75 lbs, gooseneck at 70lbs and 5th wheel at 250 lbs.

Now that says that a gooseneck takes the least weight from payload. The campers can be ordered or adapted for a gooseneck.

Since it can roll out of the way...why not go this route.

I ask because I am thinking on getting the 5th wheel/gooseneck prep on my HD...but gooseneck alone sounds better, cheaper and lighter. I have heard they are better in offroad conditions.

So, why so few people using this option?

Any thoughts good or bad!

 

[Pressgrove]

B&W also makes a 5th wheel that attaches to the turnover ball socket. (called Companion). It does add considerable weight though and will push the payload capacity.

I'd never heard of Demco. That looks like a good option for a 1/2 ton, as it appears to be lightweight.

 

[Davidmurphy02]

So I have been thinking about this. SAEJ2807 rates Conventional hitch at 75 lbs, gooseneck at 70lbs and 5th wheel at 250 lbs.

Now that says that a gooseneck takes the least weight from payload. The campers can be ordered or adapted for a gooseneck.

Since it can roll out of the way...why not go this route.

I ask because I am thinking on getting the 5th wheel/gooseneck prep on my HD...but gooseneck alone sounds better, cheaper and lighter. I have heard they are better in offroad conditions.

So, why so few people using this option?

Any thoughts good or bad!

Most fifth wheels can not really safely be adapted for just a gooseneck ball in the bed - they would require an extension post attached to the fifth wheel kingpin, and the fifth wheel frames are not really designed for that and it is questionable whether they can safely handle the stress on that post. A gooseneck ball offers freedom of movement in both directions for rough terrain, but many conventional fifth wheel hitch heads articulate in both directions also.

There are some fifth wheel hitches that mount on a goosneck ball rather than rails in the bed. The Demco Recon, which is what I got, comes in a gooseneck version. It is lightweight for a traditional fifth wheel hitch at 94 pounds vs. over 200, but is still rated for 21K. Lots of info about this hitch here: https://www.etrailer.com/Fifth-Wheel/Demco/DM8550043.html

If payload is really tight and every pound counts, you can also check out the Andersen Ultimate fifth wheel hitch. It is very lightweight, less than 40 pounds. It comes in both gooseneck and rail mount versions. The Andersen hitch has a ball instead of the traditional heavy fifth wheel hitch head, and then an adapter that clamps onto the trailer's kingpin with a socket for the ball on the hitch. https://andersenhitches.com/Catalog/ultimate-5th-wheel-connection.aspx

On an HD truck hopefully payload will not be a big issue, but another consideration is how often you expect to move the hitch in and out of the truck. That's where the light weight of the Demco Recon or the Andersen can make a big difference. The fifth wheel hitches designed for the puck system in the HD trucks are generally big and very heavy, a lot of effort to manhandle in and out of the truck.

 

[bravo1]

devildodge when you price out a 5th wheel pin box conversion versus a 5th wheel prep kit you will see why so many stay with a 5th wheel prep kit.Not cheap by Reese or any one else.Your are talking at least 1200.00 dallors for the pin box conversion.Ram Mopar prep kit plus installation around 500.00 and a Curt 16K 790.00 With the bed payload increase on the 5th generation Ram 2500/3500 I would hardly worry about the weight of a Curt 180 lbs. Even if you washer/dryer your front closet you will never come close to that number...2019 CrewCab 4x4 shortbed,3:73,4x4 bed payload 2520,tow rated at 19,040.Golly Gee DevilDodge like Alfred E Newman once said "Why me worry"

 

[bravo1]

David nice setup..I too look at the Demco and agree on a common rail for Reese,Curt,I am looking at B&W Patriot hitch assembly

 

[devildodge]

I would hardly worry about the weight of a Curt 180 lbs.

My question was for the 1500 guys who have to watch where they pack their pillows

But thanks for the answer. My question was really just to get some opinions on the thought...as saving 175lbs in a 1500 is a big deal.

 

[NordicNevs]

Coming from a long history of diesels and thousand and thousands of miles of towing....

Pick your camper before your truck.

I wouldn’t tow a 5er with a 1/2 ton ever...
getting moving is part of it
Getting it stopped is everything
Handling is in wind, evasive driving for road debris or an accident, a blow out, the list goes on and on.

Sorry guys but the weight isn’t the only factor. A high profile 5er has NUMEROUS other factors at play other than dead weight.

Use caution. I had a Jayco HT GVWR 9990 and pulled it behind a 2500 (2015.5 and 2017) Duramax and Cummins and there have been moments when I wish I had a Dually.

All things are great when things are great, until they are not.

These 1/2 tons are very capable and boast great numbers compared to many of the “older” rigs but still guys these are not cut out for severe duty cycles that pulling a 5er entails.


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[djeazie]

I have a quad cab and bought it to tow a small 5th wheel – an Escape fiberglass trailer that weighs 5,000 pounds loaded with a pin weight of around 800. I ordered my Lone Star with few options – tow package, 33 gallon tank, level 1 equipment, 3.21 diff – in order to get a high payload, and I have a payload of 1,804 which should be plenty. I towed a similar small fifth wheel for many years with my 98 Ram 5.9 and love the way a fifth wheel tows vs. a bumper pull - far more stable, and shorter overall length when hitched up so easier to fit into smaller campsites.

I bought my truck last July and found that none of the hitch manufacturers had a rail bracket kit for mounting the rails in the new body style Ram. Without a truck-specific mounting kit, no one wanted to try to do a custom installation – trucks are so complex now with so many variables no one would mess with it. Reese and Curt both supposedly had rail bracket kits in the works but kept pushing out the ETA. Apparently there is a weld seam under the bed of the new body style Ram right where a bolt hole would normally go for the brackets that was giving them problems designing something to work. We have to go pick up our new trailer next month and I was getting worried that we might not be able to get hitch rails installed in time.

A couple of weeks ago I found out that Demco had come out with a rail bracket kit for the new body style, part number 8552032. Just in time for me – I got the rails and hitch installed today and now I’m all set to go pick up our new fifth wheel next month. Thought I’d share this because no one seemed to know about the Demco rail bracket kit, I actually found out about it when talking to a Demco factory rep about something else. If you’re trying to get fifth wheel rails installed in a new Ram this is the only option until Curt or Reese comes out with their own brackets.

It doesn’t matter what brand of brackets or rails you use, they are all industry standard so any rail-mounted fifth wheel hitch designed for ISR rails will fit on any rails. I wound up getting a Demco hitch also because I liked that particular hitch, takes up less space in the bed and is lighter than most fifth wheel hitches.

Another option for the new Rams is the B&W Turnover Ball, which does have a kit to fit the new body style. It mounts a removable gooseneck ball that leaves a completely flat bed when you take it out, which is a plus if you need to haul other stuff. There are a few fifth wheel hitches that come in a version that mounts to a gooseneck ball instead of rails – the Demco Recon I just bought is one and there are others.

View attachment 17865

I will bet money your payload sticker on the door jam does not say 1804 lbs.

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