SGW 2025 Ram 1500 Big Horn

[gofish]

If it wasn’t for the existence of alfaobd and JScan, who have modeled their apps from pirated proprietary engineering software (to include other manufacturers like forscan for ford, etc), it wouldn’t even be possible to make configuration changes to your vehicle at all.

Hmm. Kind of sounds like they were compelled to recreate that functionality on their own because... wait for it... FCA made it "proprietary" and squirreled it away from the owners of their products, thus making it effectively inaccessible to consumers, which was my point to begin with. Something also tells me there's more color to that origin story than simple theft and reverse engineering, because by similar logic recently espoused, alfaobd and JScan surely would have been sued into oblivion by FCA by now if so, right?

 

[Jimmy07]

Hmm. Kind of sounds like they were compelled to recreate that functionality on their own because... wait for it... FCA made it "proprietary" and squirreled it away from the owners of their products, thus making it effectively inaccessible to consumers, which was my point to begin with. Something also tells me there's more color to that origin story than simple theft and reverse engineering, because by similar logic recently espoused, alfaobd and JScan surely would have been sued into oblivion by FCA by now if so, right?

Here’s the bottom line:
All of the tools, service manuals, procedures, etc are available to ANYBODY so that they can diagnose and repair their own vehicle back to the way it functioned before it broke.
If you want to change the features or modify the vehicle to a different state than when you bought it, then the burden is on you or the aftermarket to figure out. That’s what us forum members are for, and app developers.
As much as I love figuring all this stuff out, and how to add features after the fact, at no point do I believe that I’m entitled to the engineering software that OEMs use to code configurations to the vehicle when it’s manufactured. I also believe they have every right to make that software as hard as possible crack if they want to, which is why they are making it all login/web based.

 

[vincentw56]

Here’s the bottom line:
All of the tools, service manuals, procedures, etc are available to ANYBODY so that they can diagnose and repair their own vehicle back to the way it functioned before it broke.
If you want to change the features or modify the vehicle to a different state than when you bought it, then the burden is on you or the aftermarket to figure out. That’s what us forum members are for, and app developers.
As much as I love figuring all this stuff out, and how to add features after the fact, at no point do I believe that I’m entitled to the engineering software that OEMs use to code configurations to the vehicle when it’s manufactured. I also believe they have every right to make that software as hard as possible crack if they want to, which is why they are making it all login/web based.

It's exactly the same way Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc don't give you access to their source code. Of course it's been reversed engineered for people to do things they don't support, but they are in no way obligated to give you the abilities to modify their systems. But apparently this person knows better.

 

[gofish]

As much as I love figuring all this stuff out, and how to add features after the fact, at no point do I believe that I’m entitled to the engineering software that OEMs use to code configurations to the vehicle when it’s manufactured. I also believe they have every right to make that software as hard as possible crack if they want to, which is why they are making it all login/web based.

Look man, I respect your opinion, but isn't there a multitude of functionality in those apps for purely diagnostic, repair, and testing purposes? That has absolutely nothing to do with modification or engineering once a vehicle is in the owner's possession. That's functionality that you would otherwise be required to take to the dealer and pay them to perform, right? My understanding is that there's plenty of rudimentary functionality in those apps or in the dealer's "proprietary" possession that any number of factory repair and diagnostic procedures would require you to perform, and if that's the case, unfortunately we are not tracking.

 

[gofish]

It's exactly the same way Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc don't give you access to their source code. Of course it's been reversed engineered for people to do things they don't support, but they are in no way obligated to give you the abilities to modify their systems. But apparently this person knows better.

Apple has been sued for Right to Repair violations in the past, and Microsoft and Google are now both championing it, likely because their corporate lawyers are understandably renowned for their risk- and liability-averse postures.

Access to a product's source code and access to a product's basic repair, diagnostic, and maintenance facilities as described in factory service manuals and repair procedures are not even remotely analogous. Access to source code would be analogous to unfettered access to the Sterling Heights, MI factory and all the materials inside it to make the vehicle yourself without paying for it, as long as you understood how to operate all the equipment.

 

[turbom5]

Apple has been sued for Right to Repair violations in the past, and Microsoft and Google are now both championing it, likely because their corporate lawyers are understandably renowned for their risk- and liability-averse postures.

Access to a product's source code and access to a product's basic repair, diagnostic, and maintenance facilities as described in factory service manuals and repair procedures are not even remotely analogous. Access to source code would be analogous to unfettered access to the Sterling Heights, MI factory and all the materials inside it to make the vehicle yourself without paying for it, as long as you understood how to operate all the equipment.

gofish you need to stop with all these posts. You are hijacking a very important thread where a few intelligent people have actually figured out how to code these new trucks with your argument. Please stop posting in this thread about your grievances with how things are. No one is agreeing with you. If you want to debate this topic find another thread or another forum to do so. Please do not overburden our bright minds here with this off topic discussion. Take a look at how many replies you posted here today and you're arguing your point while flooding this useful thread with off topic discussion. Please be more considerate. You keep going like this and these guys are shutting down. This is the only thread talking about this on the internet and you decide to come here and ruin it. Good work. Now we will have no resources to help others because you cant get off your "soap box".

 

[gofish]

gofish you need to stop with all these posts. You are hijacking a very important thread where a few intelligent people have actually figured out how to code these new trucks with your argument. Please stop posting in this thread about your grievances with how things are. No one is agreeing with you. If you want to debate this topic find another thread or another forum to do so. Please do not overburden our bright minds here with this off topic discussion. Take a look at how many replies you posted here today and you're arguing your point while flooding this useful thread with off topic discussion. Please be more considerate. You keep going like this and these guys are shutting down. This is the only thread talking about this on the internet and you decide to come here and ruin it. Good work. Now we will have no resources to help others because you cant get off your "soap box".

I disengaged earlier and they resumed talking about it. I'm not going to apologize for continuing to engage them in conversation, and I'm not going to accept the guilt trip either. I'm done. Let's move on. I didn't want to hijack the thread and that's why I attempted to steer it back earlier today. Moving TF on.

 

[Jimmy07]

Look man, I respect your opinion, but isn't there a multitude of functionality in those apps for purely diagnostic, repair, and testing purposes? That has absolutely nothing to do with modification or engineering once a vehicle is in the owner's possession. That's functionality that you would otherwise be required to take to the dealer and pay them to perform, right? My understanding is that there's plenty of rudimentary functionality in those apps or in the dealer's "proprietary" possession that any number of factory repair and diagnostic procedures would require you to perform, and if that's the case, unfortunately we are not tracking.

Now we’re talking about two different diagnostic software platforms. CDA6 (Chrysler Diagnostic Application) is the engineering software that stellantis engineering uses for testing, diagnosing, configuring, and coding manipulation on modules. Even among the stellantis employees that have login access to CDA6, there are different levels of access as to what that assigned user is able to access in the software (ie, some engineers have read only access and cannot write, which is required to make a configuration change).

The dealerships use witech 2, and nobody that works at a dealership has access to CDA6.
Witech 2 doesn’t give dealerships the ability to add any sales codes they want to a VIN, only sales codes for features that mopar has created a kit for, such as remote start and power side steps. That’s why even if we added all the physical parts to a big horn for passive entry, for example, and we take it to the dealership, they aren’t capable of programming it to work.

That being said, everything that dealerships can do as far as diagnostics and repair and tools, is available to us (with the exception of key fob programming, obviously). We can get an aftermarket Witech 2 account. We can buy the same mopar diagnostic pod that they use (but the RLink j2534 pass through is way cheaper). We can get the same tech authority service portal for service info and wiring diagrams. We can buy all the same mopar specialty tools that they can buy.
We just don’t have access to the software that can manipulate the coding in the modules. Even then, there’s still nothing stopping you from using commonly available tools to sniff out the canbus on your truck, and creating a device like infotainment’s OBD genie to change the coding for a configuration change in the BCM.
We’re just in a spot right now with these 2025+ Rams that we either wait for an aftermarket that has the resources and financial motivation to figure out something easier for us, or we use all the tools and steps available to us right now that we’ve been able to figure out so far.

 

[gofish]

Now we’re talking about two different diagnostic software platforms. CDA6 (Chrysler Diagnostic Application) is the engineering software that stellantis engineering uses for testing, diagnosing, configuring, and coding manipulation on modules. Even among the stellantis employees that have login access to CDA6, there are different levels of access as to what that assigned user is able to access in the software (ie, some engineers have read only access and cannot write, which is required to make a configuration change).

The dealerships use witech 2, and nobody that works at a dealership has access to CDA6.
Witech 2 doesn’t give dealerships the ability to add any sales codes they want to a VIN, only sales codes for features that mopar has created a kit for, such as remote start and power side steps. That’s why even if we added all the physical parts to a big horn for passive entry, for example, and we take it to the dealership, they aren’t capable of programming it to work.

That being said, everything that dealerships can do as far as diagnostics and repair and tools, is available to us (with the exception of key fob programming, obviously). We can get an aftermarket Witech 2 account. We can buy the same mopar diagnostic pod that they use (but the RLink j2534 pass through is way cheaper). We can get the same tech authority service portal for service info and wiring diagrams. We can buy all the same mopar specialty tools that they can buy.
We just don’t have access to the software that can manipulate the coding in the modules. Even then, there’s still nothing stopping you from using commonly available tools to sniff out the canbus on your truck, and creating a device like infotainment’s OBD genie to change the coding for a configuration change in the BCM.
We’re just in a spot right now with these 2025+ Rams that we either wait for an aftermarket that has the resources and financial motivation to figure out something easier for us, or we use all the tools and steps available to us right now that we’ve been able to figure out so far.

Respectfully, I'm done. Not even reading this. Moving TF on.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Look man, I respect your opinion, but isn't there a multitude of functionality in those apps for purely diagnostic, repair, and testing purposes? That has absolutely nothing to do with modification or engineering once a vehicle is in the owner's possession. That's functionality that you would otherwise be required to take to the dealer and pay them to perform, right? My understanding is that there's plenty of rudimentary functionality in those apps or in the dealer's "proprietary" possession that any number of factory repair and diagnostic procedures would require you to perform, and if that's the case, unfortunately we are not tracking.

Right to repair doesn't mean right to access to the source code. And also doesn't mean free access to diagnostics . As mentioned, you can purchase all the same equipment dealerships use. Nothing is stopping you from fixing your own vehicle.