Key FOB Security

[Someolddude]

Greetings...
Fell down the rabbit hole on recent news about thefts of our vehicles using the vehicle's key fob code transmission.
Ordered a faraday case for my fobs to use when on trips to the big city...
However, I'm looking at my emergency key and instruction for it's use if the fob battery fails.
Now I'm wondering, can I just remove the fob battery and use the emergency process to access and start the vehicle when in sketchy country? Without the battery the fob won't be transmitting a signal to repeat/record. The hard key can get me into the vehicle. I can lock up the vehicle using the armrest button when exiting.
So I guess my question is, does anyone know how long the fob will keep it's emergency (pressing dash button with fob) start capability after the fob battery dies/is removed?
How long does the fob chip retain it's coding function without the fob battery?

 

[vincentw56]

Greetings...
Fell down the rabbit hole on recent news about thefts of our vehicles using the vehicle's key fob code transmission.
Ordered a faraday case for my fobs to use when on trips to the big city...
However, I'm looking at my emergency key and instruction for it's use if the fob battery fails.
Now I'm wondering, can I just remove the fob battery and use the emergency process to access and start the vehicle when in sketchy country? Without the battery the fob won't be transmitting a signal to repeat/record. The hard key can get me into the vehicle. I can lock up the vehicle using the armrest button when exiting.
So I guess my question is, does anyone know how long the fob will keep it's emergency (pressing dash button with fob) start capability after the fob battery dies/is removed?
How long does the fob chip retain it's coding function without the fob battery?

Please post how this works for you.

The RFID chip in the FOB has no battery, so it should work indefinitely.

 

[Someolddude]

OK. Popped the battery out of the fob and used the emergency access and start procedure. Ran like normal. Remote functions obviously don't work, but no message about key fob out of the vehicle, nothing out of the ordinary while driving around the neighborhood. (put my spare fob in the kitchen microwave just to be sure, home faraday cage)
I did get a theft alarm horn after unlocking the door with the manual key and then fiddling with the fob a bit outside the truck before opening the truck door. All I did was unlock the door again, climb in and start the truck with emergency method. Truck started, alarm silenced and cleared.
Guess I'll drive it about for the next few days local to confirm, but this appears to possibly provide an option to make thieves work a lot harder to get your fob code. Like was stated, the key fob has a permanent RFID chip in it like a bank card. Removing the fob battery could require a potential thief to get right up on you to steal it's code?
TBC

 

[vincentw56]

OK. Popped the battery out of the fob and used the emergency access and start procedure. Ran like normal. Remote functions obviously don't work, but no message about key fob out of the vehicle, nothing out of the ordinary while driving around the neighborhood. (put my spare fob in the kitchen microwave just to be sure, home faraday cage)
I did get a theft alarm horn after unlocking the door with the manual key and then fiddling with the fob a bit outside the truck before opening the truck door. All I did was unlock the door again, climb in and start the truck with emergency method. Truck started, alarm silenced and cleared.
Guess I'll drive it about for the next few days local to confirm, but this appears to possibly provide an option to make thieves work a lot harder to get your fob code. Like was stated, the key fob has a permanent RFID chip in it like a bank card. Removing the fob battery could require a potential thief to get right up on you to steal it's code?
TBC

The alarm going off is annoying, but normal.

 

[HSKR R/T]

OK. Popped the battery out of the fob and used the emergency access and start procedure. Ran like normal. Remote functions obviously don't work, but no message about key fob out of the vehicle, nothing out of the ordinary while driving around the neighborhood. (put my spare fob in the kitchen microwave just to be sure, home faraday cage)
I did get a theft alarm horn after unlocking the door with the manual key and then fiddling with the fob a bit outside the truck before opening the truck door. All I did was unlock the door again, climb in and start the truck with emergency method. Truck started, alarm silenced and cleared.
Guess I'll drive it about for the next few days local to confirm, but this appears to possibly provide an option to make thieves work a lot harder to get your fob code. Like was stated, the key fob has a permanent RFID chip in it like a bank card. Removing the fob battery could require a potential thief to get right up on you to steal it's code?
TBC

Im sure there will be a couple negative replies about it, but you could get the TazerDT and use the killbyfob feature to prevent theft by cloning your fob. And anyone that can defeat that feature isn't cloning your fob to begin with so would still be able to steal your truck with your methods

 

[DEG]

You did fall way down the rabbit hole and might benefit by climbing out and stop worrying about sensational media stories of extremely rare events.

According to NHTSA, in 2022, there were 1 million vehicles stolen and half of that was due to driver error like leaving the unlocked and car running. Forbes says in 2022 there were 278 million registered vehicles on the road.

So, in any given year, people average less than a 0.2% chance their vehicle will get stolen due to no fault of their own yet the news and social media has people storing their keys in the microwave and installing hidden cutoff switches.

 

[Someolddude]

Gotchya.
No further discussion. Carry on.
Nothing to see here.
LOL

 

[Darksteel165]

You did fall way down the rabbit hole and might benefit by climbing out and stop worrying about sensational media stories of extremely rare events.

According to NHTSA, in 2022, there were 1 million vehicles stolen and half of that was due to driver error like leaving the unlocked and car running. Forbes says in 2022 there were 278 million registered vehicles on the road.

So, in any given year, people average less than a 0.2% chance their vehicle will get stolen due to no fault of their own yet the news and social media has people storing their keys in the microwave and installing hidden cutoff switches.

Not everyone drives a Laramie. Trx are common targets for thefts. In Canada it's common too. There has been several people on this forum alone that has had their truck stolen.
It 100% depends where you live. I don't need to worry about my truck ever getting stolen, the people around here are too dumb and theft too rare. But in some places it makes sense to secure your truck, putting your fob in the microwave is a waste of time. They don't need your fob to begin with.

 

[Eighty]

You did fall way down the rabbit hole and might benefit by climbing out and stop worrying about sensational media stories of extremely rare events.

According to NHTSA, in 2022, there were 1 million vehicles stolen and half of that was due to driver error like leaving the unlocked and car running. Forbes says in 2022 there were 278 million registered vehicles on the road.

So, in any given year, people average less than a 0.2% chance their vehicle will get stolen due to no fault of their own yet the news and social media has people storing their keys in the microwave and installing hidden cutoff switches.

What an incredibly asinine thing to say. It’s like suggesting you shouldn’t wear a seat belt because, statistically, your chances of being in an accident are less than 0.2% in any given year.

 

[DEG]

What an incredibly asinine thing to say. It’s like suggesting you shouldn’t wear a seat belt because, statistically, your chances of being in an accident are less than 0.2% in any given year.

Just more fabricated irrelevant nonsense. It's nothing at all like suggesting you shouldn't wear a seatbelt since there is a potential for a much more serious consequence of injury or death if you are not wearing a seatbelt during that rare crash.

 

[Darksteel165]

Just more fabricated irrelevant nonsense. It's nothing at all like suggesting you shouldn't wear a seatbelt since there is a potential for a much more serious consequence of injury or death if you are not wearing a seatbelt during that rare crash.

Funny how you say everyone else speaks irrelevant nonsense except you.

 

[Eighty]

Just more fabricated irrelevant nonsense. It's nothing at all like suggesting you shouldn't wear a seatbelt since there is a potential for a much more serious consequence of injury or death if you are not wearing a seatbelt during that rare crash.

Known risk, with known solution to minimize the risk. But you're advocating that people ignore the risk, because you think it's silly.

Not fabricated, and not irrelevant. You're just trolling at this point.

 

[DEG]

Known risk, with known solution to minimize the risk. But you're advocating that people ignore the risk, because you think it's silly.

Not fabricated, and not irrelevant. You're just trolling at this point.

I'm merely responding to your trolling posts. There is a huge difference between the risk of death and the risk of having your personal property stolen.

 

[Eighty]

I'm merely responding to your trolling posts. There is a huge difference between the risk of death and the risk of having your personal property stolen.

That wasn't the crux of my point. The point is that you're telling people to ignore their concerns because you believe that it's statistically not likely to happen. That would be the same comparison to not addressing a safety concern because of the statistical insignificance.
I don't know why you're piping up in these threads, trying to downplay peoples' legitimate concerns. Rather than help, you're trying to gaslight them. It's not helpful at all.

 

[vincentw56]

Perception is reality. If the OP is concerned with theft, then they have the right to do whatever they want to keep their vehicle safe within legal means.

 

[DEG]

That wasn't the crux of my point. The point is that you're telling people to ignore their concerns because you believe that it's statistically not likely to happen. That would be the same comparison to not addressing a safety concern because of the statistical insignificance.
I don't know why you're piping up in these threads, trying to downplay peoples' legitimate concerns. Rather than help, you're trying to gaslight them. It's not helpful at all.

Giving an opposing view is in fact helpful, even if it's a minority view.

Many people are very easily manipulated by the sensationalized rare instances they read about on social media and in the news and are often driven to take action that may be unnecessary because what they read is often not a good representation of reality. If you ask most people today, they will believe the murder rate is higher than ever when in reality the murder rate today is less than half what it was in the 70s and 80s.

My post is nowhere near the same as not addressing a safety concern. Every decision involves some form of risk assessment. The statical odds of an incident occurring is only part a risk assessment. Every risk assessment must include consideration for the potential consequences of inaction. Failure to do so is a failed risk assessment which often results in poor decision making. The consequences of death vs a stolen truck are nowhere near the same so your analogy was a fallacy argument.

Off course the averages I provided were national averages and the risk of a stolen vehicle may be higher in other locations. However, if you live in an area with high vehicle thefts then you probably also live in an area where other crimes, such as murder, are higher than average. In that case, a U-Haul truck is probably a better option to mitigate your risks. I worked for 20 years in one of the highest crime areas of St Louis. For 20 years I commuted 2 hours each day to live in a very low crime area across the river in Illinois.

Opposing group think by presenting an opposing position, regardless of popularity, is not gaslighting but calling it such is a strawman fallacy argument that relies on people not comprehending the definition of gaslighting.

Edited to Add -- BTW: The OP even admitted he was going down a rabbit hole, but when I agreed with him and provided an alternative to help him work his way out, he got all upset.

Rabbit Hole Metaphor:
To enter into a situation or begin a process or journey that is particularly strange, problematic, difficult, complex, or chaotic, especially one that becomes increasingly so as it develops or unfolds.

 

[DEG]

Funny how you say everyone else speaks irrelevant nonsense except you.

Not everyone else. Just a couple. You more than any so I understand your false perception.

 

[Eighty]

I don't think I would call these concerns "sensationalized rare instances". They're happening every day. Maybe not to your Retirement Red Limited. But in the TRX community, they're getting stolen very often. Here are some recent threads from the TRX forum:

12/30/23:

2022 Built TRX stolen out of the driveway

They got me after 2 years. Stolen this morning out of the driveway. Trackhawk pulls up and they steal the truck took them a while keys were in a faraday bag. California location White Trackhawk Plate #7STE958 anyone have a way to locate or run that plate it would be helpful. Or the insurance...

www.ram-trx.com

1/3/24:

2021 Ram TRX stolen!!

My truck was stolen last night right in front of my house. This is just ridiculous you can have nice things.

www.ram-trx.com

1/12/24:

TRX Stolen in Dallas

My 2022 Blue Hydro was stolen in Dallas metro yesterday. It sat outside of the Texas A&M school of Dentistry (close to Downtown) for about 3 hours and was jacked from the surface lot. No broken glass. No aftermarket theft deterrent was installed. Make sure you install the kill switch on...

www.ram-trx.com

1/20/24 (this is the 4th attempt on his truck):

4th IGLA Save

My TRX has been broken into 3 times previously all breaking the window in different areas of Dallas. I am extremely cautious on where I park, leave the truck and always sit somewhere I can see the truck and still have got hit due to how bad dallas is. Today I went to Nebraska furniture mart in...

www.ram-trx.com

 

[DEG]

I don't think I would call these concerns "sensationalized rare instances". They're happening every day. Maybe not to your Retirement Red Limited. But in the TRX community, they're getting stolen very often. Here are some recent threads from the TRX forum:

12/30/23:

2022 Built TRX stolen out of the driveway

They got me after 2 years. Stolen this morning out of the driveway. Trackhawk pulls up and they steal the truck took them a while keys were in a faraday bag. California location White Trackhawk Plate #7STE958 anyone have a way to locate or run that plate it would be helpful. Or the insurance...

www.ram-trx.com

1/3/24:

2021 Ram TRX stolen!!

My truck was stolen last night right in front of my house. This is just ridiculous you can have nice things.

www.ram-trx.com

1/12/24:

TRX Stolen in Dallas

My 2022 Blue Hydro was stolen in Dallas metro yesterday. It sat outside of the Texas A&M school of Dentistry (close to Downtown) for about 3 hours and was jacked from the surface lot. No broken glass. No aftermarket theft deterrent was installed. Make sure you install the kill switch on...

www.ram-trx.com

1/20/24 (this is the 4th attempt on his truck):

4th IGLA Save

My TRX has been broken into 3 times previously all breaking the window in different areas of Dallas. I am extremely cautious on where I park, leave the truck and always sit somewhere I can see the truck and still have got hit due to how bad dallas is. Today I went to Nebraska furniture mart in...

www.ram-trx.com

Yes, the model of truck might be another factor in a risk assessment, but the OP seems to own a "Retirement Red" eco-diesel.

 

[Someolddude]

Woah! I'm still here, still working on my theory. Didn't mean to cause a stir.
I do indeed own a "retirement red" EcoD. Freakin' hilarious, cause I did in fact buy it for retirement. Love the truck, but I agree that there's little chance a thief is gonna find my truck desirable, given it's power train, so not worth getting bunched up over.
Just thought it was something worth looking into for the TRX guys and perhaps others with keyless ignition vehicles.
...and point made, the #1 vehicle stolen is apparently a Honda sedan? There's no explaining taste.