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Why so much hate for MDS and auto stop/start?

Richard320

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I'm very happy with the MDS. I wish it would stay on longer -- with cruise control on, going through a dip shuts it off. I'd be okay losing 1 mph to keep the engine chugging along showing 33 mpg instantaneous.

I don't have eTorque. I was wary of being the guinea pig on a new technology. Looks like I lost that bet.
 

Fuzznutz

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Does my 2021 Laramie have auto stop/start? I sure can't feel it like I can in my wife's vehicles that have had it, and I can't find the "A" with a circle around it anywhere in my truck to turn it off?

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vincentw56

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Does my 2021 Laramie have auto stop/start? I sure can't feel it like I can in my wife's vehicles that have had it, and I can't find the "A" with a circle around it anywhere in my truck to turn it off?

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The button is under the 4x4 switches or push button for stop. It also only available on eTorque engines.

2020 Bighorn Night Edition, 5.7 Hemi w/eTorque
 

Ramjack

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Both systems are in place to appease EPA regulations, not make the engine run better or last longer. They add expense and complication while doing little to nothing in terms of saving fuel
Yes. MDS Cylinder deactivation has proven to cause problems in virtually every engine on which it is implemented. There is a reason why Ford and Toyota have avoided it. Ford is just now starting to use it with the 5.0L in the F-150. I cannot find where Toyota is using it at all. Auto start/stop is just a "hack", not a real solution, to try to gain 1mpg. Internal combustion engines are not designed to shut off, restart, shut off, restart, etc. Hearing the starter spin up (with traditional start/stop systems, not eTorque) at every stop is annoying. The retail cost of an OEM alternator for a non-eTorque engine is $479. The retail cost of an eTorque generator is $1,235 plus $2,250 for the 48V battery. That's a difference of $3,006 for parts alone. Ram is clearly subsidizing the initial cost (i.e. getting a higher profit margin on the non-eTorque models) since the "upgrade" cost on the window sticker is only $200.

That said, my 4 day-old Big Horn has eTorque. I did not plan on getting it, but I could not find a truck I wanted (at the price I wanted) without it. The start/stop is the best on the market. Restarting the engine does not use the starter motor. But clearly no other manufacturer dedicates an additional $3k of parts to get auto start/stop. I would also be concerned about parts availability in 10 years as this is kind of an oddball system. However, I only plan to keep the truck 3 years so I'm not worried about it. In short, I like the way eTorque works, especially if it actually saves the advertised 2mpg in the city. But I'd be concerned about long-term reliability and cost if I planned to keep the truck past the 8yr/80k mile warranty on the eTorque system.

Regarding the MDS, I can definitely feel when it engages on the highway. There is a mild shudder if you put any pressure on the accelerator. This is when an aftermarket exhaust system would sound like shyte. You won't notice it if you're just coasting. So far it doesn't bother me. If it does, I'll just start engaging the gear limit (to 8) every time I start the car.
 
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tones2SS

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Hated MDS on my previous Laramie. I could hear and feel whenever it activated/deactivated, especially after I upgraded the exhaust. On my current Limited I can't even tell when it is active or not other than the ECO light telling me. I don't have any issues with it on this truck. Maybe that will change if I upgrade the exhaust, but for now I'll just let it do its thing.
Maybe that's what my problem is??
I have a 2016 Ram Sport 4X4, rcsb and I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE the MDS. I also have an aftermarket muffler on mine. I disable the MDS every time I drive the truck.

I heard that FCA fixed that issue on the newer trucks.
 

Ramjack

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Maybe that's what my problem is??
I have a 2016 Ram Sport 4X4, rcsb and I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE the MDS. I also have an aftermarket muffler on mine. I disable the MDS every time I drive the truck.

I heard that FCA fixed that issue on the newer trucks.
Fixed what issue? There is nothing to fix. The engine is basically going to sound like a 4-cylinder when it is in MDS. With an uncorked exhaust, that's not a pleasant sound.
 

tones2SS

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Fixed what issue? There is nothing to fix. The engine is basically going to sound like a 4-cylinder when it is in MDS. With an uncorked exhaust, that's not a pleasant sound.
Fix the shudder/noise when the MDS engages. Is it that a myth?? lol
I could hear it before and even worst after I swapped out the direct replacement muffler. This is on my '16 Sport.
 

Ramjack

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Fix the shudder/noise when the MDS engages. Is it that a myth?? lol
I could hear it before and even worst after I swapped out the direct replacement muffler. This is on my '16 Sport.
The shudder is not fixed. All engines with MDS (all makes) do that if you're paying any real attention. The noise is what it is. Like I said, it's going to sound like a 4 cylinder with an aftermarket exhaust. I don't hear any noise with the stock exhaust.
 

KCViper

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I have no real issues with either and if they help even a little bit, I'm happy to have it. Start/Stop is much smoother than on my Porsche 911 for sure!!
 

tones2SS

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The shudder is not fixed. All engines with MDS (all makes) do that if you're paying any real attention.
Man, that's disappointing.

At least I don't have the start/stop bullcrap. The new Ford F150 5.0 trucks have both the start/stop and cylinder deactivation as well now for 2021.
Not really a fan of the start/stop and cylinder deactivation stuff at all.
 

vincentw56

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Fix the shudder/noise when the MDS engages. Is it that a myth?? lol
I could hear it before and even worst after I swapped out the direct replacement muffler. This is on my '16 Sport.
That's why I like my Carvan cat-back. It was tuned for MDS. Yes, there is a difference, but you can't really tell. And with the radio on, you can't tell at all.

2020 Bighorn Night Edition, 5.7 Hemi w/eTorque
 

Ramjack

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Man, that's disappointing.

At least I don't have the start/stop bullcrap. The new Ford F150 5.0 trucks have both the start/stop and cylinder deactivation as well now for 2021.
Not really a fan of the start/stop and cylinder deactivation stuff at all.
Honestly, I doubt that most people notice the MDS at all. Plus, you can hit one button upon startup and turn both things off. Just hit the gear limiter button on the steering wheel once and, voila, no MDS and no start/stop.
 

Fuzznutz

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The button is under the 4x4 switches or push button for stop. It also only available on eTorque engines.

2020 Bighorn Night Edition, 5.7 Hemi w/eTorque
Lmfao! Thanks! For 2 months and 2000 miles now, I thought I had an eTorque motor. I did open the hood of a few different trucks, and I thought I bought one with eTorque at the end of the day. Not because I wanted eTorque thank God, but because this truck was mostly what I wanted. I'm almost relieved I don't have it! After you posted I ran out side and popped my hood to see a shiny alternator. I could only smile and shake my head at my own self lol. One less thing I need to worry about. Now that I think about it.....don't the eTorque's even say "eTorque" on the hood or somewhere? Geesh! LOL!

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vincentw56

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Lmfao! Thanks! For 2 months and 2000 miles now, I thought I had an eTorque motor. I did open the hood of a few different trucks, and I thought I bought one with eTorque at the end of the day. Not because I wanted eTorque thank God, but because this truck was mostly what I wanted. I'm almost relieved I don't have it! After you posted I ran out side and popped my hood to see a shiny alternator. I could only smile and shake my head at my own self lol. One less thing I need to worry about. Now that I think about it.....don't the eTorque's even say "eTorque" on the hood or somewhere? Geesh! LOL!

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Only on the 21+. The 19s and 20s don't have the badging.

2020 Bighorn Night Edition, 5.7 Hemi w/eTorque
 

IvoryHemi

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What makes you think that? I've not seen a single issue with it.

2020 Bighorn Night Edition, 5.7 Hemi w/eTorque
Just to address this point, I'm not disagreeing with you that is potentially dangerous. But with the etorque system, the engine restarts as soon as you lift your foot off the brake pedal. It's running before you even touch the gas pedal.

Could you elaborate on item #2? Is it because you might be turning left across oncoming traffic?
For me, I'm able to get the engine to restart by barely lifting the brake pedal. I have never gotten my foot off the brake and over to the gas before the engine has started. But, I'm driving more and more like a grandpa as I get older.

I took a Limited home for the Mrs. to look over mainly because we were undecided on MFT.

Our neighborhood is off a busy road with no stop light.

There was enough of a delay hitting the gas that made it the left turn very uneasy. It re-starts fast, just not fast enough to comfortably beat oncoming traffic.
 

vincentw56

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Could you elaborate on item #2? Is it because you might be turning left across oncoming traffic?
For me, I'm able to get the engine to restart by barely lifting the brake pedal. I have never gotten my foot off the brake and over to the gas before the engine has started. But, I'm driving more and more like a grandpa as I get older.
I actually tried to go from brake to gas as fast as I could and truck handled it fine. Just like if it was still running. But, if someone was cautious about it, they can just push the button to turn it off. I'm also running a pedal commander, so that could have helped too.

2020 Bighorn Night Edition, 5.7 Hemi w/eTorque
 

mikeru82

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I took a Limited home for the Mrs. to look over mainly because we were undecided on MFT.

Our neighborhood is off a busy road with no stop light.

There was enough of a delay hitting the gas that made it the left turn very uneasy. It re-starts fast, just not fast enough to comfortably beat oncoming traffic.
That certainly hasn't been the case with mine. I can't move my foot from the brake fast enough to touch the gas pedal before it restarts unless I'm heel and toeing it. In normal driving it's plenty fast. Maybe there was something wrong with the one you test drove.
 

SpeedyV

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Yes. MDS has proven to cause problems in virtually every engine on which it is implemented. There is a reason why Ford and Toyota have avoided it. Auto start/stop is just a "hack", not a real solution, to try to gain 1mpg. Internal combustion engines are not designed to shut off, restart, shut off, restart, etc. Hearing the starter spin up at every stop is annoying. The retail cost of an OEM alternator for a non-eTorque engine is $479. The retail cost of an eTorque generator is $1,235 plus $2,250 for the 48V battery. That's a difference of $3,006 for parts alone. Ram is clearly subsidizing the initial cost (i.e. getting a higher profit margin on the non-eTorque models) since the "upgrade" cost on the window sticker is only $200.

That said, my 4 day-old Big Horn has eTorque. I did not plan on getting it, but I could not find a truck I wanted (at the price I wanted) without it. The start/stop is the best on the market. Restarting the engine does not use the starter motor. But clearly no other manufacturer dedicates an additional $3k of parts to get auto start/stop. I would also be concerned about parts availability in 10 years as this is kind of an oddball system. However, I only plan to keep the truck 3 years so I'm not worried about it. In short, I like the way eTorque works, especially if it actually saves the advertising 2mpg in the city. But I'd be concerned about long-term reliability and cost if I planned to keep the truck past the 8yr/80k mile warranty on the eTorque system.

Regarding the MDS, I can definitely feel when it engages on the highway. There is a mild shudder if you put any pressure on the accelerator. This is when an aftermarket exhaust system would sound like shyte. You won't notice it if you're just coasting. So far it doesn't bother me. If it does, I'll just start engaging the gear limit (to 8) every time I start the car.
The starter isn’t used in stop/start operations. Many people like hearing the HEMI rumble :)
 

SpeedyV

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I’m happy with the system, as it’s incredibly well integrated, and the HEMI was specifically designed for it.
 

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