Bought a TT - Pretty sure my truck will be okay. Am I?

[The Helpful Badger]

So I bought a Jayco 24MBH which I am going to pull with my 2020 RAM 1500 Classic SLT/Warlock (5.7L Hemi). It's got a 3.21 gear ratio and the RAM towing capacity VIN lookup says I can pull a max of 8,220lbs. I have a 1200lb weight distribution hitch installed. The GVWR of the Jayco is 7350lbs, 5653lbs dry.

I don't suspect I'll have any issues pulling this. I have a wife and son, and will be moving across country soon (PNW to East coast) and will be carrying some stuff with us (not a whole bunch, but likely important items which might weigh at most 200lbs.

I have a trailer brake controller on the way which I'll install here in the next week or so, which means I've not been able to get the RV to a CAT scale or anything to give specific weights yet.

Just basically really want to make sure I didn't screw myself.

Also, could use some help decoding this information:

VIN Decoder - DodgeForum.com

Dodge VIN Decoder - Decode your vehicle identification number

dodgeforum.com

On the Ram site, it says my max tow is 8,220. On this spec sheet I think it is indicating that if I have a weight distribution hitch that I could theoretically tow 10,200lbs.

-R

 

[devildodge]

We will start with the last question. No. You can not tow 10200lbs. You also can not within spec tow 8220lbs.

We have plenty of towing threads here. This is all explained numerous times. But...since I am bored. One more time

So you have a classic 4x4 5.7l with 3.21 gears

The numbers that do not change. They can be found on your door jamb. Except GCWR you have to get that from the chart.

GVWR is 6900. Front GAWR is 3900 Rear GAWR is 3900 and GCWR is 13800

Here is were algebra comes into play. The Max tow number is a play of words. It is everything you can add or hook to a base weight.

GCWR MINUS Base weight (GVWR minus payload eguals base weight) EQUALS max tow.

So your payload is on the door jamb also. This number is different for each truck. And changes with everything you add...or take away. This will get you your base weight.

GVWR minus payload equals base weight.

You didnt give the payload...but i can tell you what it is. Using these formulas.

So let's start.

13800 minus base weight equals max tow.

6900 minus base weight equals payload.

You said your max tow was 8220

13800 minus 8220 equals base weight...5580

6900 minus 5580 equals payload...1320

Do you see that you can not hook a 8220lb trailer to your truck and tow in all conditions? 8220 is your passengers...tongue weight...hitch...gear...and trailer.


So. You said the UVW of the trailer is 5653.

This includes tongue weight. Which is usually about 13% on a camper. So 731 lbs. Most people add 1000lbs minimum to their camper. So loaded your TW will be over 860lbs.

Let's show you 2 numbers. 5580 plus 5630 is 11210. So you can still add 2590lbs. The trick is the truck is limited to 1320.

So hooked up to the trailer empty you have 731lbs of tongue weight. Which leaves you with 589lbs. Your hitch will weigh about 100lbs. So 489 left for family and stuff. But the trailer will have stuff in it too. So there are your numbers. Depending on your family size and cargo...gonna be real close. You could possibly find you are over. Get to a CAT scale and be sure you are not over Gross Axle Rating. Then you will know if you are fine.

Now. Onto the other question. The weight distribution hitch does not allow you to tow more. It transfers weight. You are recommended to have one over 500lbs TW and 5000lb trailer. You may find the 1200lb WDH may be too much though...but it should work.

As far as the VIN decoder. It tells you the basics of your truck. Year cab and bed size engine and 4x4 etc.

You can get your Build sheet that tells you everything your truck has

FCA RAM

fcacommunity.force.com

 

[The Helpful Badger]

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to explain some things to a 'noob'. I really appreciate it.

I have seen several of the threads here that do their best to explain towing and all that, I've read several of them and tried to follow along with the math. Your math seems a lot easier to understand for some reason. The only thing I don't know how you came by the number is the GCWR. I've looked at several RAM charts and wasn't able to find one that matched what my truck is *supposed* to have. The attached chart (retrieved from RAM's body builder site) shows a payload of 1560, which doesn't match the sticker at 1322. The GCWR (6900#) and Axels (3900#) match, and the GCWR you quoted matches 13,800.


Sticker on the door says 1322# for payload which isn't far from what you calculated.

You listed the base weight at 5580, over on the 'comprehensive towing guide' post base weight is GVWR-payload, which puts my numbers at 5478. Again, not far from your numbers.

You did some math with the trailer hitch weight that I'm not totally understanding, this is what you said:

So. You said the UVW of the trailer is 5653.

This includes tongue weight. Which is usually about 13% on a camper. So 731 lbs. Most people add 1000lbs minimum to their camper. So loaded your TW will be over 860lbs.

So does the 5663 already include the 731# or is that additional? Figure it's best to share with you the trailer's spec sheet (https://www.rvguide.com/specs/jayco/travel-trailer/2020/white-hawk/24mbh.html) which lists the tongue/hitch weight of 565 (10% of UVW).

Family, plus cat stuff (littler, cage, cat) = +/- 550. Keeping things light, trying to stick with max 80# of extra 'stuff' (clothes, plastic dishes, empty tanks, etc.)

I used a calculator over on keepyourdaydream.com (https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/) and if I throw in the numbers we have here it shows I would be around negative 39lbs.

I'll have to find a CAT station and get both truck+trailer weighed to find out for sure.

 

[devildodge]

The 2 pounds our math shows different is because of rounded numbers.

So 1322 is your door payload.

The charts show a tradesman trim. That is why you have to go to your door jamb to get the proper number. What this shows is your truck has 238lbs of options. This is why I said GVWR doesn't change...but payload is specific to your truck.

To explain this more. GVWR is based on drivetrain 4x2 is 6700 and 4x4 is 6900. GCWR is based on engine and rear gear. GCWR is found in the charts as you found.

Yes. The hitch weight I did at 13%...because trailers are between 10 to 15%. As the 2 pounds was from rounded numbers the 13% was a guestimate.

So they say 10%. Ok. Then What That means is empty your truck will have 560lbs on it and if you properly load the usually 1000lbs avg...your truck would have 660lbs added to it. So my 731 at 13% was a high guestimate. So that helps.

Yes. If you were to take the truck and trailer to the CAT scale...you would see 5098 on the trailer axle. The 565 would show on your drive axle and steer axle...depending on how you setup your WDH. Let me know if that made sense.

I would say being negative 39 lbs would be fine. There is a bit of buffer before you hit the axle weights.

Remember though. The UVW of the trailer usually doesnt include propane and batteries. And these,if at the front, will add directly to tongue weight.

Good luck. Anxious to see your CAT scale slip

Any other questions...feel free to ask.

 

[The Helpful Badger]

Thanks again for taking the time out for me. If I'm totally honest I feel a bit scared/frustrated/angry at myself because I did a TON of homework researching something around 11 different trucks and finally found the one I have. If I were to give you my RAM's VIN would that help you isolate and get the nitty-gritty of things? I also have the build sheet if that makes any difference.

On the second line of thought, because I'm cutting it close is there anything I can do to increase GCWR? I was looking at the chart I attached and I see the buildout just below it has the 3.92 axel ratio with the same engine/transmission/axel weights and all that yet the GCWR is much higher. Is there any physical differences between the truck buildout below and the one I have? Would swapping axel ratios make the difference?

(Note: I have read in other forums and online that changing out ratios doesn't add anything because it relates to the entire vehicle's safe limits. I also suspect that in those discussions that the vehicles they are using are physically different, like they're trying to increase a base model lighter chassis GCWR rather than making adjustments to a physically similar vehicle just different drive train options.)

 

[cj7]

As long as you don’t put to much in the bed, and too much junk in the trailer forward of the trailer axles, and are careful, you will be fine.

The numbers are useful, but don’t get scared. Remember, due to liability concerns, the OEMs ensure their advertised max is doable.

I pull a Mesa Ridge 2504BH with advertised numbers very similar to yours. I do have a 3.92, but knowing what I know now, will get the 3.21 next time. Payload, not towing cap, is the limiting factor, as noted above. My 20 1500 Laramie works well, and I’ve towed with one pax and a 300# bike in the bed. If you can, tow with empty TT tanks too.

One other hint, that’s worked for me; replace the OEM TT tires with Goodyear Endurance (and while your messing, get Dill TPMS for the peace of mind). If the rims are wide enough, I go one load rating up. Sell the old tires with a couple hundred miles or less, and they’ll help pay for the new American-made rubber

Just be attentive, and dare I say, cautious, when driving. A half-cap rig with a yutz behind the wheel is infinitely more dangerous than a pro pulling at max cap.

By the fact you asked, I’m sure you will be fine.

 

[devildodge]

Axle ratio adds 2150 lbs combined rating. You are no where near your combined rating so this wont help. Also...with the 4x4...it isnt as easy as just changing rear gear...whole different topic there.

You can not do anything to increase GVWR. You can add aids...but a properly setup hitch will work better.

1500s are payload limited. They can tow...but can not haul much while doing it.

So if you load the truck to 6900 and your trailer to say 7000...that is your 13900...so you are not lacking on GCWR.

You have some room with the trailer. So only load passengers in the truck. And all gear in the camper at the axles.

You got the truck for the job...you just have to pack accordingly.

Let me know if this makes sense.

 

[devildodge]

I agree with @cj7 last sentence.

You did your homework. You still have some axle capacity.

Once you get through the PNW...you have a pretty flat trip til you get to the east coast.

The trucks ratings are designed to hit a very particular type of towing. For most of your trip...you will be in perfect terrain. The begining and end will be a bit more harsh.

Drive below the speed limit. Keep watch in your mirrors and drive looking further ahead tham usual.

You will be fine. Since you already have the truck and camper...you can make this work.

Can you get to a CAT scale once you get your brake controller? That will set your mind at ease.

Good luck.

 

[devildodge]

The nitty gritty. You gave all the answers.

Payload is 1322 (specific to your truck)
GVWR IS 6900 front and rear GAWR is 3900 and GCWR is 13800 (I know this cause it doesn't change and I do these calculations often)

Base weight is 6900 minus 1322 for 5578. A gas engine truck has a rough 60/ 40 weight distribution. So your truck weighs 3346 in the front and 2231 on the rear. So you have
564 lbs capacity on the drive and 1669lbs in the rear. When you load the truck...almost all weight goes to the rear. So the camper will put about 600lbs on the truck. Your 500lbs of stuff in the truck will add about say 375 to the rear...so you still have capacity there. Note: these are estimates.

You are good. Drive slowly and cautiously.

 

[chrisfuss]

I know most guys will laugh at this and say nobody cares. But also take into consideration that if anything would happen and the insurance finds out you were over your payload/gvwr... its the easiest one for them to bail out of... Regardless of what happened or or if you were at fault or not... And trust me they do find those things, someone in my family is a case lawyer for a large insurance and she handles that kind of **** all day long...

 

[silver billet]

I'd be less worried about insurance, and more worried about killing somebody. Let's say you're doing everything responsibly. Driving at speed limit, keeping your distance etc, and then something random happens; maybe a tire blowout in the front of your truck, or somebody pulls right in front of you and you lose control. This can happen to you while you are underloaded and while you are overloaded.

Killing or seriously hurting somebody is already a really horrible outcome. Now lets say a lawyer gets involved. If you were overloaded, I have to think they're going to take you to the cleaners.

Is it worth it to drive over loaded? To me, no it isn't. If I end up killing someone, it's going to plague me for the rest of my life knowing I knew better but thought I could chance it anyway. If I was underloaded and something horrible happened, it would be easier to live with knowing I crossed every T and dotted every I and did all I could to avoid it.

Could be just me, I know I tend to lean a bit on the paranoid side when it comes to this, my own rule is I will not pull past 90% of my spec, and prefer a 60 to 70 percent range. So my payload is 1750, I won't go past 1200. I don't like working equipment and machines that hard especially for repeated long distances. It just feels wrong knowing the truck has nothing more to give.

Edit: To the OP, this is not a comment directed at you specifically, I think you have had some great answers and are doing the right thing; my comment is more directed at towing overloaded in general.

 

[WXman]

I find that a lot of people shopping trucks completely ignore how much payload they lose when their family of 4 or 5 gets into the truck.

My truck has a payload of 1,645 lbs. My family of 5 weighs about 800 lbs. combined. That means when we all get in the truck to go camping I've got 845 lbs. remaining.

If I then put 100 lbs. of camping gear in the truck I'm left with 745 lbs. of payload.

Since most trailers/campers apply 10-15% of their tongue weight to the truck, and this counts as payload, that means I'm then capped at 5,000 to 7,500 lbs. max. It doesn't matter that my truck is listed at 10,000 lbs. of towing in the towing manual. I can only pull 50-75% of that legally with my family and a small amount of gear inside.

My 8.5x24' enclosed trailer with a UTV, ATV, and equipment inside will go 6,100 lbs. on the scales. So I'm going to be maxed out when I hit the road next year. And this is why my next truck will be a 3500 with a Cummins.

 

[devildodge]

That is the main misconception. The towing number is not the trailer weight alone. The towing number is GCWR minus baseweight.

So that 10 or 11k is for everything added to your truck. Passengers, cargo, tongue weight, hitch and then the trailer.

You can not load your truck how you want and then tow a 11k trailer.

As soon as people understand this. It makes the truck buying experience much easier...or more painful...depends on if you already own the camper.

 

[The Helpful Badger]

I wanted to jump back here and let everyone know I really appreciate all the comments and information you've provided. I find that talking about things and getting what I do know out in the open allows me to realize I don't always have the data I need and I can adjust better having a lot of counsel.

I also got my brake controller in the mail today, so that'll be a project I'm eager to tackle very soon. I need to get it installed and get my RV down to a CAT scale soon as I can. (Sucks in the PNW the closest one to me is in Tacoma, almost an hour away!!). But, it's important I know what I'm getting into and what I can do about weight. I'm not planning on loading a bunch of camping stuff and misc gear in the TT/truck and expect to travel as light as possible.

 

[NorthStar]

I wanted to jump back here and let everyone know I really appreciate all the comments and information you've provided. I find that talking about things and getting what I do know out in the open allows me to realize I don't always have the data I need and I can adjust better having a lot of counsel.

I also got my brake controller in the mail today, so that'll be a project I'm eager to tackle very soon. I need to get it installed and get my RV down to a CAT scale soon as I can. (Sucks in the PNW the closest one to me is in Tacoma, almost an hour away!!). But, it's important I know what I'm getting into and what I can do about weight. I'm not planning on loading a bunch of camping stuff and misc gear in the TT/truck and expect to travel as light as possible.

Did you check out the following to see if there are any scales closer to you?

https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/map/

 

[The Helpful Badger]

I did! If you zoom in on WA find Seattle and then move your finger to the left across the water. That's a general.idea of where I am.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[Planepilot]

This is a helpful thread as it is very close to my situation. I have a 2019 Ram Limited 5.7, 3.21. I just bought a TT with a gvwr of 6900#’s. This is about a 1,000# lighter than the TT I would have liked to have bought but didn’t because of doing all of the numbers talked about in this thread.

Going down the Interstate, I feel like I am driving on a bowl of jello. My rig “jiggles”. Not bad, not scary, I settle in an get use to it, but it isn’t right. I am using an Andersen WDH because I am payload challenged and it weighs in at 60 pounds. I brought the TT home using a borrowed e2 hitch. The “jiggle” effect was worse with the e2. I went to the CAT scales yesterday with an emptied truck (no junk) with full fuel and just me and an emptied TT with full propane and batteries. Nothing else in the TT.

My steering axle had 3300#’s, drive axle 3140#’s, trailer axles 4840#’s, gross weight 11280#’s. Empty, I am well under all of my weights. I have 22” “P” tires. To get rid of the “jello” effect, should I go to LT tires? Would I need to change out my rims too to a smaller size?

 

[devildodge]

Glad to hear you took the time to make sure your towing setup was in spec.

You definitely have room to add some passengers and cargo.

Although the P rated tires are plenty for the setup you have...that feeling is definitely from them. EDIT: Just saw @cj7 post. You could also definitely help things by getting some more tongue weight on the hitch. You have some room for it.

You can go to an LT tire in the 22" Wheel you have. Or you could go to a factory 18 inch if you would like. Either is fine. Price would be the only factor really

You can also look into some of the other tire classes. Alot of people jump right to a load range E. You could possibly make do with a D range...or even a C range.

I will let the guys who like to debate tires explain all that.

Good luck in the decision. And again. Thanks for checking and making a safe setup.

 

[cj7]

PlanePilot, welcome to the club! It will all work out, just a little sleuthing required...

First, would need to better understand the symptoms - since I’ve never driven on a bowl of jello, what exactly does that mean? Are we talking
- “dart-y”, where it seems to exaggerate steering inputs, or
-“wiggle-y” where it repeatedly cycles/circles/loops around when driving straight, or
- “vibe-y” where there seems to be a low frequency high amplitude vibration, or
- “oval-y” like a tire is out of round, or
- “grease-y” like your driving on a slippery road, or
- “marshmallow-y” like the rear floats up and down
- “unsteady” where you constantly have to make opposite steering corrections, or
- “confused” like the front and rear (or truck and trailer) seem to have minds of their own?

Second, what are the weights of the truck axles with no trailer?

Third, what are your tire pressures cold and unhitched?

Forth, was the TT and Anderson purchased new? Who set up the WDH?

Fifth, when driving down the road, what motion do the safety chains display (like when you're looking at the backup cam zoomed in)?

Sixth, how do the truck and trailer sit when hitched? Are they both level to the ground?

My Laramie, unhitched, last scaled at 3220 steer / 2720 drive, 5940 total (did have some stuff in it). Yours probably a little heavier. But assuming they‘re close, you’ve rig adds 80# to the steering axle, 420# on drive, so 500# tongue for a 5340# TT. But I’m betting your truck‘s a little heavier, so less than 9% tongue. Not sure that’s the reason, but I’d double check the WDH rigging, and whether you need a drop hitch.

And your thoughts on the effect of low profile tires are probably going in the right direction...my stock 20s and stock Duelers work fine with a 6800# TT.

(oh, and what do you fly?)

 

[highgear2005]

Does your truck have the factory wiring harness for the brake control? If not your only choice is aftermarket.

Rule of thumb, I use for towing. Buy more truck then you need. Earlier comments on insurance is spot on. If your even close they will reject your claim.

I see too many trucks overloaded and I get away from those truck quickly.


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