So I see a lot of people are installing an oil catch can. Is there a systemic problem? Why doesn't everybody install them on all their vehicles? I know what they do especially for direct injection engines but is it proven to cause problems if you don't install one? Just trying to figure out I should install one when I get my truck in the near future. Thanks in advance.
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What's with the oil catch cans?
- Thread starter ChrisW74
- Start date
There's no need for one. If you want it get it but it wont hurt not having one. Its personal preference
AndreiV
Well-Known Member
Mostly on the personal preference side and especially if you plan to keep truck for a long time and do lots of DIY maintenance/repairs. I do have 18 year old BMW, 8 year old SUV, and now a truck. I ordered one mainly because I plan to keep truck for a long time.
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19reb
Guest
A catch can is the same as an oil/air separator. Personal preference really has nothing to do with it. If it did, race teams wouldn't use them and swear by them. Think about that.
The 5.7 is notorious for a lot of blow by. If you don't know what that is, look it up. A catch can "catches" blow by before it gunks up the intake on the engine.
Will a catch can give you a performance boost? No. But it will make your engine run much, much cleaner and much, much more efficiently.
Where the "personal preference" comes in, is do you want a clean, efficient running engine or do you want a gunked up turd. Your choice.
I personally won't run a Hemi without a catch can. Especially the 5.7.
ETA: If there were no need for a catch can or oil/air separator, Mopar/SRT wouldn't factory fit the Hellcat, Redeye or Demon with one. Yes, those have the SC 6.2 and are much higher performance and I'd argue with anyone who says the 5.7 can't perform at the same levels. Again, clean engine vs dirty engine - your choice.
The 5.7 is notorious for a lot of blow by. If you don't know what that is, look it up. A catch can "catches" blow by before it gunks up the intake on the engine.
Will a catch can give you a performance boost? No. But it will make your engine run much, much cleaner and much, much more efficiently.
Where the "personal preference" comes in, is do you want a clean, efficient running engine or do you want a gunked up turd. Your choice.
I personally won't run a Hemi without a catch can. Especially the 5.7.
ETA: If there were no need for a catch can or oil/air separator, Mopar/SRT wouldn't factory fit the Hellcat, Redeye or Demon with one. Yes, those have the SC 6.2 and are much higher performance and I'd argue with anyone who says the 5.7 can't perform at the same levels. Again, clean engine vs dirty engine - your choice.
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Since when does a hellcat come factory with a catch can? Also have run the 5.7 to over 200k miles without a catch can and never an issue. I have one now because I plan on going forced air but most performance vehicles don’t use them. It’s just extra weight.
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Chris
Active Member
It's very simple:
If you've spent the money on a catch can or already plan to, then it is a necessity that will pay for itself ten times over in multiple ways, including long term reliability and reduced overall engine maintenance (including wear and tear).
If you decided against a catch can, then you have determined that the port injection has been well engineered to clean any minute blow by using fuel without any measurable impact to MPG or performance while saving the weight and maintenance that a catch can requires.
Just roll a dice to pick between the two; it would be as scientific as 99% of either camp can provide on the RAM 5.7 Hemi N/A engines.
If you've spent the money on a catch can or already plan to, then it is a necessity that will pay for itself ten times over in multiple ways, including long term reliability and reduced overall engine maintenance (including wear and tear).
If you decided against a catch can, then you have determined that the port injection has been well engineered to clean any minute blow by using fuel without any measurable impact to MPG or performance while saving the weight and maintenance that a catch can requires.
Just roll a dice to pick between the two; it would be as scientific as 99% of either camp can provide on the RAM 5.7 Hemi N/A engines.
Jus Cruisin
Ram Guru
A lot of guys with superchargers put them on to keep the oil from getting into the supercharger itself. C7 Z06 Corvettes get oil in the supercharger valley without a catchcan. The pcv won't stop oil from getting back into the intake. The catchcan basically is an external pcv. Superchargers create more pressure which pushes more oil back into the intake.
Nails
Ram Guru
It is a preference, regardless of what is what. Will these engines go high miles with out, Ofcourse. I’m good with either way. I choose to get one. Every time I drain it I can visually see what would have been going into the engine. Realize oil is a great attractor to physical and chemical debris. That is part of its job. It’s not meant to be part of the internal event though by default yes, not design.
So who ever knows about issues with GDI engines is still very possible in port injection minus intake valves.
Let’s be clear for everyone that doesnt know much about ICE, I’ve used it and I see above. We don’t want to mislead peeps. It is a quick term if you will.
Blow by is not the right term for this situation. It is a generic word and I get it. Totally not right for the subject at hand. You want to check for blow by open the oil filler cap while it’s running. If it’s huffing smoke out and lots of air. There’s a issue. Then do a leak down cylinder test/contribution test.
Hemis and LS/LT engines are notorious to large oil consumption though PCV system. Truly, many newer aged engines do. 2 main reasons more open flowing pcv systems and higher crankcase pressures. Which in nature of design is not from blow by of combustion cylinders.
Back to subject— Like to point out all depends on maintenance level, tons of variables really on that. This not to freak peeps out, this is real stuff. Anything is possible to happen.
In basic form, over time it will degrade air/fuel ratios. Which will decrease engine efficiency. If it’s to somehow get through that, catalytic converters do not like it. Which will help them fail over time. Last, this stuff builds up on piston/ in combustion chamber and breaks free. Hardened carbon by the internal event is harder then any metal in the combustion chamber around it.
Just food for thought, thanks for letting nerd out alittle.
So who ever knows about issues with GDI engines is still very possible in port injection minus intake valves.
Let’s be clear for everyone that doesnt know much about ICE, I’ve used it and I see above. We don’t want to mislead peeps. It is a quick term if you will.
Blow by is not the right term for this situation. It is a generic word and I get it. Totally not right for the subject at hand. You want to check for blow by open the oil filler cap while it’s running. If it’s huffing smoke out and lots of air. There’s a issue. Then do a leak down cylinder test/contribution test.
Hemis and LS/LT engines are notorious to large oil consumption though PCV system. Truly, many newer aged engines do. 2 main reasons more open flowing pcv systems and higher crankcase pressures. Which in nature of design is not from blow by of combustion cylinders.
Back to subject— Like to point out all depends on maintenance level, tons of variables really on that. This not to freak peeps out, this is real stuff. Anything is possible to happen.
In basic form, over time it will degrade air/fuel ratios. Which will decrease engine efficiency. If it’s to somehow get through that, catalytic converters do not like it. Which will help them fail over time. Last, this stuff builds up on piston/ in combustion chamber and breaks free. Hardened carbon by the internal event is harder then any metal in the combustion chamber around it.
Just food for thought, thanks for letting nerd out alittle.
Thank you for the responses everyone I really appreciate them. So what I take away is this: It's not a necessity. It will help your engine long term but it's not going hurt anything if I don't do it either. I've had one engine have to have the top end replaced years ago due to sludge the push rods started to go. And I was doing the oil changes I just didn't use synthetic like they wanted me to. Fortunately for me they couldn't blame it on the oil so it was done under warranty. But the mechanic said it was due to not using synthetic in the particular engine. So I think I will install one when I get my truck this summer. Just as a preventative measure since the Hemi's are known to have a little more "blow by or whatever term you wish to use".
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19reb
Guest
LOL. You've replied without doing research. It's obvious.....
SRT specifically integrated an oil/air separator(catch can) into the SC'd 6.2(Hellcat). They integrated them into the valve cover. The right valve cover to be specific.
Go ahead and pull the intake manifold off your 200k Hemi and then tell me your engine wasn't affected. No issues. I'll wait!
If it's a 3rd Gen RAM, which with 200k miles, I'd say it probably is. The intake manifold will be yellow on the inside. If it's not yellow, then your engine has suffered from massive "blow by" and a catch can would have kept that from happening....
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19reb
Guest
PCV(Positive Crankcase Ventilation) is specifically designed to manage "Blow by". Is it not? If not, then please explain what the PCV system is for. Can't wait to hear your explanation.
If positive crankcase pressure isn't caused by "blow by", then please explain where positive crankcase pressure comes from?
ICE? Internal Combustion Engine? Please explain. No offense and I hope you take none from it. But your comment about whatever this ICE thing is, really makes you sound like a paid forum poster.
Mislead? Please explain. Who's being misleading? You?
Blow by can cause tons of problems for the internal combustion engine. Including terrible fuel mileage, highly glazed cylinder walls, fouled plugs, detonation and high oil consumption. Blow by can even cause power loss.
The biggest problem is manufactures use a heavy weight oil as a first fill(break in) oil that doesn't have a lot of Zinc in it. Which then causes the rings to not break in properly, thus glazing the cylinder walls which prevents the rings from creating a proper seal. In turn causing massive blow by. Hemis are notorious for this problem. The 5.7 being the worst of the Hemis when it comes to blow by.
ETA: Here is a great article on PCV in the event that you want to "brush up" - https://auto.howstuffworks.com/positive-crankcase-ventilation-system.htm
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4th and ran great up to the day I sold it for the 5th gen. As for the hellcats, the oil separator still introduces the oil back into the intake (so not a catch can). That’s why they sell the catch cans separately. Dodge came out and said they didn’t include catch cans for space and extra maintenance. Was my 4th gen engine perfectly clean no but did it run just fine without one yes.
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19reb
Guest
Never said you had to have one or that your engine won't run right without one. They sure do come in handy, though, later down the road when you want to mod and start the tear down.
I think of it as more of a problem prevention part than anything else. Maybe even a tool to make sure the engine is breaking in properly. There are plenty of benefits of having one. Especially, as mentioned earlier, for boosted engines with internal heat exchangers. Which was the biggest reason I put one on my Hellcat. I put one on my Rebel before it had 500 miles on it.
I think of it as more of a problem prevention part than anything else. Maybe even a tool to make sure the engine is breaking in properly. There are plenty of benefits of having one. Especially, as mentioned earlier, for boosted engines with internal heat exchangers. Which was the biggest reason I put one on my Hellcat. I put one on my Rebel before it had 500 miles on it.
Nails
Ram Guru
@19reb — ICE is internal combustion engine. I shortened it up as I wasn’t wanting to keep typing it. I do apologize for any confusion.
Wow, paid forum poster huh. I’ll have a chat with the admins on that see if I can get on that plan.
PCV system was designed to manage crank case pressures in a sealed, no longer open to atmosphere system. Not from blow by, but from the rotating mass(crankshaft/balance weights) also pressures from the underside of pistons movement. Being displaced from one cylinder to another. Never gets to be even take and give so always pressure left over. That has to be released. Crank case pressure should be close to 0, actually a smige of vacuum when testing.
Realize engineering has been trying to control/reduce those pressures to increase efficiency.
That cover it? Do I still need to freshen up?? Or you have more smart *** comments/ assumptions to make.
All I do is try to inform this community to better it and the people in it. So they have more understanding of their trucks.
Wow, paid forum poster huh. I’ll have a chat with the admins on that see if I can get on that plan.
PCV system was designed to manage crank case pressures in a sealed, no longer open to atmosphere system. Not from blow by, but from the rotating mass(crankshaft/balance weights) also pressures from the underside of pistons movement. Being displaced from one cylinder to another. Never gets to be even take and give so always pressure left over. That has to be released. Crank case pressure should be close to 0, actually a smige of vacuum when testing.
Realize engineering has been trying to control/reduce those pressures to increase efficiency.
That cover it? Do I still need to freshen up?? Or you have more smart *** comments/ assumptions to make.
All I do is try to inform this community to better it and the people in it. So they have more understanding of their trucks.
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Enjoying the debate gents (SC, nails, 19)...not being as informed as y'all still not sure if the catch can is being paranoid/ignorant, well informed, or somewhere in between. Buying in June so keep up the conversation....I'm learning?
securityguy
Legendary member
Baffled Oil Catch Can, fits Dodge Ram 1500 5.7L 2019+
The 5.7L Hemi V8 engine found in the 2019+ Dodge Ram 1500 is an icon of American ingenuity, but even icons have their faults. As we saw during development of our 2009-2018 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7L V8 baffled oil catch can kit, the 5.7L Hemi produces a huge amount of blow-by. That blow-by contains...
www.mishimoto.com
Chris
Active Member
Two views and explanations from popular youtubers on the Catch Cans:
Okay so this forum is the first ive heard of catch cans and i get the benefits. But could someone explain what happens to all that oil that gets into the crankcase? People are saying they are getting a couple ounces per oil change, it cant just collect in there are you would eventually have a quart or more in there, so does most of it get burned off or released out somewhere? dont know much about them or crankcases, trying to learn though. Also would FCA try to use them against you in a warranty claim? Thanks guys.
securityguy
Legendary member
The whole purpose of a PCV system is to return it...so yes. When it returns, it leaves carbon buildup and gunk as it's not a clean reburn. The can catches it BEFORE it gets to the intake. It does not effect your warranty...if anything, it should help it.
Chris
Active Member
I presume you mean cylinders, as the oil originates from the crankcase and is intended to mostly stay there or things would very quickly get unpleasant for the pushrods.
Watch the videos above; the system is designed to take excess pressure built up in the crankcase and vent that pressure along with minute amounts of oil. This used to be done to atmosphere,but dumping oil to the atmosphere was not exactly friendly to the grass, so now it is dumped into the intake so the heat and combustion of the engine combined with the catalytic converter converts it into a much more environmentally friendly exhaust product.
In a nutshell, the Catch Can removes the need for the engine to perform this additional activity, at the cost of added weight and needing to empty and PROPERLY dispose of the oil multiple times in between changes (shame on any of you that just dump this oil to get rid of it).
Other then the aforementioned weight and maintenance of the Can itself, there is no detrimental effects to having one. The major controversy is if there is any significant benefit to having one in an engine already designed from the start for this type of PCV system, but there is no unbiased studies and research to say either way. On the one hand, you have the engine manufacturers looking to save money by claiming their engines are so well designed that it can handle the "blowback" without any scientifically measurable effect on the engine through it's rated life (about 200k miles). On the other hand, you have the Catch Can manufacturers who point out excessive amounts of oil being pushed back into the engine and make it clear that oil is not designed to be combusted by the engine cycle (and therefore must result in some sort of long term negative effects that the engine manufacturers are denying).
In order to get to the real truth, someone needs to be willing to invest millions in unbiased 3rd party research, but as it turns out that isn't profitable for anyone so it just isn't going to happen.
