Why Did You Choose the EcoD over the Hemi E-Torque?

[JJRamTX]

Why I went with Gen 3 EcoDiesel over Hemi:

- There is a HUGE difference between 410 lbs/ft @ 3,800 RPM and 480 lbs/ft @ 1,600 RPM.
- There is a HUGE difference between 24 real world mixed MPG and 15 real world mixed MPG.
- I wanted to try something different as I had grown tired of V8 pickups.

Your first point I am pretty sure was the main point of this thread. The Eco Diesel vs. the eTorque and not just the regular Hemi. 410 lbs/ft @ 800 RPM for the eTorque vs the regular Hemi which lags when towing heavy. I wish they had the Dyno to show this additional Torque on the band curve so it was clearer.

 

[WXman]

Your first point I am pretty sure was the main point of this thread. The Eco Diesel vs. the eTorque and not just the regular Hemi. 410 lbs/ft @ 800 RPM for the eTorque vs the regular Hemi which lags when towing heavy. I wish they had the Dyno to show this additional Torque on the band curve so it was clearer.

As engineers and media outlets reported it long ago now when the Hemi eTorque engines started rolling out, the torque produced by the MGU does not supplement the engine torque except during the first launch from a standing stop up to around 3 MPH. It also is used to make trans shifts smoother. But what it doesn't do is add torque to the engine output while driving. So, the 410 lbs/ft @ 3,800 number is accurate for the Hemi regardless of whether it has eTorque or not.

This may not be accurate, but it is what engineers stated many times during the eTorque launch events and it's what media outlets reported.

 

[tyresmoker]

Good example of a person who actually needs the eco-diesel.
If a person bought one "just because", I think the additional maintenance costs will outweigh any fuel mileage gains, unless you put on a gazillion miles. Of course then your maintenance just keeps on going up too. It would be a hard call to make if a person rarely or ever tows, our current gas prices won't last forever but right now it makes even a thristy hemi bearable!

I had the MDS in my '17 GC SRT. It made the vehicle almost undriveable on the highway due to the cylinder deactivation cutting in and out and the horid exhaust drone that went along with it. When I drove the hemi Limited and heard the MDS cycling...I knew it was either a diesel or a Ford.

 

[myles]

Just trying to figure out the main reasons you chose the diesel over the e-torque. When doing the math, it's about a $3500 cost for the diesel over the e-torque with similar payload and towing on most models. The cost of diesel is about .40 cents more than regular. I do not tow, at least not yet, but drive over 15,000 miles a year and haul random things constantly.

With the higher mpg diesel, I would save about $400-500 per year in fuel costs, even with the higher cost for diesel. However, the initial upcharge for the engine would take me several years to recoup that cost. Please let me know if I'm looking at this correctly.

I should add that I'm looking at a Laramie, Crew, Long Bed, 33 Gallon Tank, Air Suspension. Being able to go 700 miles is appealing though...

I have bout 9k miles on my truck now and drive about 30k/year. I picked it for the MPGs, Not so much to save money but just the convenience of not having to stop for fuel every 2 or 3 days. With the 33 gallon tank I usually get about 750 miles before I need to fill up.

As an added bonus is does tow a bit nicer than my 15' GMC 5.3L that i had before. It doesn't wind out the motor as much and the transmission stays much cooler.

 

[myles]

Would love to hear some experiences with the EDiesel towing at max capacity vs the gas engine...

Probably going to catch a bunch of crap for admitting this but I may as well help out....

I do max out my truck a few times a year. BUT you are going to NEED a weight distribution hitch AND air bags...

I have a 26' bumper pull toy hauler, guesstimating it weights around 9700# fully loaded.

last truck was a 15' GMC sierra 1500 5.3L with max tow package, air bags, add-a-leaf...
It did OK, but blew up the transmission at 108k and thats why i sold it.
With gas you gotta rev the motor to 4k+ when starting off or going up hills and my trans would constantly overheat...

This ecodiesel just chugs along. motor and trans both stay cool. But without airbags the frame will be bottomed out on the axle, even with weight distribution. I don't recommend going 65+ fully loaded though, trailer will sway, going 55 is easy towing though.

Edit: Im also still running stock tires, so they sway will probably get better with heavier duty tires.
when i wear these tires out is when I'll lift it and get wheel/tires

 

[myles]

It seems most EcoD owner's will change the fuel filters every other oil change. What are people paying for an oil change and fuel filter replacement? I'm assuming $250-$300?

I no longer do my own maintenance. No garage.

dealer is southern California quoted me $180 for oil and filter, no tire rotation

 

[BmoreStew]

In most half-tons, but especially in the Ram, it really just comes down to preference. They’re both delivering similar (nearly identical) capability and cost over the first 10 years of ownership. Assuming that you run problem free, you’ll be happy with either.

In a 3/4 ton or 1-ton there’s a much stronger argument to go diesel over gas.

 

[Airstreampilot]

I went with the Ecodiesel for both towing and economy. I tow two campers. One is 34' and 10000#. The other is 27' and 4700#. The towing experience is so much nicer with the ED than my previous gas engine truck. At a 60 cent per gallon cost difference on gas/diesel, 100000 is my upmost for the ED breakeven. With the current tighter spread, it will be much less.

The Eco just "feels" much more solid for me as well. The 30+ mpg when not towing doesn't hurt either!

 

[Willwork4truck]

Probably going to catch a bunch of crap for admitting this but I may as well help out....

I do max out my truck a few times a year. BUT you are going to NEED a weight distribution hitch AND air bags...

I have a 26' bumper pull toy hauler, guesstimating it weights around 9700# fully loaded.

last truck was a 15' GMC sierra 1500 5.3L with max tow package, air bags, add-a-leaf...
It did OK, but blew up the transmission at 108k and thats why i sold it.
With gas you gotta rev the motor to 4k+ when starting off or going up hills and my trans would constantly overheat...

This ecodiesel just chugs along. motor and trans both stay cool. But without airbags the frame will be bottomed out on the axle, even with weight distribution. I don't recommend going 65+ fully loaded though, trailer will sway, going 55 is easy towing though.

Edit: Im also still running stock tires, so they sway will probably get better with heavier duty tires.
when i wear these tires out is when I'll lift it and get wheel/tires

Yes as soon as the "weight police" forum folks read this you'll be roasted, ha ha. But until then what you are doing is what most people do when they tow. Gawd you should see the posts on the F150 forum about what they pull... makes your 26' seem like a toy. Those guys are all about 30+ foot multi-slide 5vers...

Anyway, sounds like you know what you are doing with tow speeds (what, no 75-80 mph? Sheesh...

All the suspension mods that are required for 1500/150's really put any of these heavier trailers into the 2500/250 category but people won't go there for obvious reasons, namely the expense and ride of a 2500/250 for 90% of the year... But then that's a huge discussion/flame/panties all in a bunch topic...

The reason for getting an ED for towing is exactly what you said, the down low Tq that will actually save your truck's drivetrain as opposed to work it to an early death.
Yes the stock tires are a not-so-great choice for heavy towing (sidewall squirm) but as long as you know that then you're a big boy and can make your own choices. We aren't in a nanny state quite yet...

Thanks for your report. The commuters who go diesel will be paying a lot for regular maintenance unless they DIY. All the years I haunted the powerstroke forums and videos showed that they (diesels) were very spendy to maintain... fuel filters, oil changes, DPF (and you CANNOT delete anymore)...

 

[Roddog2220]

Probably going to catch a bunch of crap for admitting this but I may as well help out....

I do max out my truck a few times a year. BUT you are going to NEED a weight distribution hitch AND air bags...

I have a 26' bumper pull toy hauler, guesstimating it weights around 9700# fully loaded.

last truck was a 15' GMC sierra 1500 5.3L with max tow package, air bags, add-a-leaf...
It did OK, but blew up the transmission at 108k and thats why i sold it.
With gas you gotta rev the motor to 4k+ when starting off or going up hills and my trans would constantly overheat...

This ecodiesel just chugs along. motor and trans both stay cool. But without airbags the frame will be bottomed out on the axle, even with weight distribution. I don't recommend going 65+ fully loaded though, trailer will sway, going 55 is easy towing though.

Edit: Im also still running stock tires, so they sway will probably get better with heavier duty tires.
when i wear these tires out is when I'll lift it and get wheel/tires

how do you think towing say 7k pounds will work with an eco diesel or hemi with the air suspension?

 

[WXman]

dealer is southern California quoted me $180 for oil and filter, no tire rotation

That's a great deal. Most guys are getting quotes of $250 to $300 for just the oil and filter change alone. The filter lists for $92 and is on national backorder, and the new oil they spec lists for $15/quart and the manual says it needs 8.5 quarts. Then you've got labor.

 

[myles]

how do you think towing say 7k pounds will work with an eco diesel or hemi with the air suspension?

Not sure, I think the 4 corner air suspension option lowers your tow rating.

 

[myles]

That's a great deal. Most guys are getting quotes of $250 to $300 for just the oil and filter change alone. The filter lists for $92 and is on national backorder, and the new oil they spec lists for $15/quart and the manual says it needs 8.5 quarts. Then you've got labor.

I actually ordered my filter on ebay for $75 and used shell rotella t6 for about $55

 

[Willwork4truck]

Not sure, I think the 4 corner air suspension option lowers your tow rating.

A 7K trailer even with air susp won’t really bother your 1500, you will need the WDH properly set up though. We have the “weakest” suspension truck of the big 3 (ok 5 if you count Nissan and Toyota) but we enjoy the best ride, so theres a give n’ take going on. With mods you can firm the back end up and hopefully get the best of both worlds.

Try it just “regular” with your WDH (and you don’t have to buy a premium one either), before you start throwing money at it. Only you know the roads you drive, your speeds, how you load it etc. then once you get a feel for what‘s happening (excessive sag, or sway or whatever) you can look at the Bilstein 5100 thread, the Hellwig sway bar thread and the other towing threads to get more thoughts and ideas.

There’s guys on here who are towing “big” like 9-11K and they have outlined all the (expensive) mods they’ve installed. One the the basic mods is changing to 10 ply tires. So anyway your truck is fully capable of a 7K load.

 

[VernDiesel]

Love the ED but per his needs / usage the ED is not the ideal pick for the OP.

There is no factory engine braking more accurately turbo braking with a turbo diesel ED. It does have braking assistance from the transmission but in factory settings is very mild. In gen 2 the lack of turbo brake can be remedied with an aftermarket engine tune such as https://hddieselsupply.ca/i-3164307...ne-hand-held-device.html?ref=category:1334979 A transmission tune can also improve the transmission braking and help the two work synergistically. The tunes or software settings to control these "brakes" can be set stronger or weaker depending on if you request it from the tuner or can set it yourself in some cases with an aftermarket transmission control tool. Having experienced it with different tune brake settings the difference in what the turbo and transmission brakes can provide is significant. I'm sure in time the aftermarket will provide these solutions for the new ED motor as well.

For the 7k TT question the ED will tow it like a boss assuming you set up your load (truck & trailer) or tongue and axle weight distribution reasonably well. IE its more about the suspension than the motor although certainly it is more enjoyable and fuel efficient to tow with a diesel. As to the max load or trailering question. If you are looking at towing a wet TT of 9k or up surmise to say a HD 2500/3500 is a better tool for the job. BTW 660k miles towing TTs for the Mfgrs with my 2014 Ram ED. Its about the suspension brakes and gross weight of the truck in addition to proper weight distribution. Doesn't matter much which of the five 1/2 Mfgrs truck assuming best factory spec or what is printed on the payload sticker. Setup and proper weight distribution as proven on a CAT scale is the key. The only somewhat caveat to the 9k thing is the few custom order ford 1/2 tons with 3/4 ton axle suspension and frame mods.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Coming from Ford, their “max tow” or “max payload” optioned 1/2 ton trucks towed pretty well. Pity, you couldn’t get a truck with both... it is a fact that you have to have your wdh set up correctly. i’ve seen some scary big 5 ers being towed by F150’s, like 35’ triple slides. Pin weights must have been big.
Thats just not for me, I always had a hd 3/4 or a 1 ton when I pulled travel or horse trailers.

 

[LS954]

Mainly for the fuel economy. I have a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 1st gen ecodiesel and I average about 21 MPG in the city and just over 30 on long-distance highway driving.

 

[greggsmith21]

I wanted to feel like a big rig driver driving a Diesel and saving money on fuel with almost twice the mileage. LOL.

 

[silver billet]

I wanted to feel like a big rig driver driving a Diesel and saving money on fuel with almost twice the mileage. LOL.

Meh, not enough bling for my taste. Needs more chrome.

 

[Bobbyray]

I purchased the Eco Diesel because it was the most heavily discounted, over 24% off MSRP and surprisingly a fair trade value.