What would you prefer?

[mikeru82]

Is it the better/less emissions?

In my lizard brain it's hard to imagine that the smaller SST puts out more power & torque and has cleaner emissions.

Yes, better emissions with the SST. That's the main benefit of direct injection. Better power and cleaner emissions. At least for a time, until carbon deposits start to affect performance and fuel economy.

 

[E.Hands]

Look, bottom line: When those 2025's with 540 HP / 521 TRQ under the hood start to whistle past your Hemi... we are all going to be a lil' envious...

On a side note, what will hold it's resale value better:
Turbo, EV or N/A?

 

[DEG]

I'm purely just guessing but higher grade fuel & more frequent oil changes more important with forced induction?

-devil's advocate w/ a fear of more complexity.

The Hurricane engine has been available for a couple of years now in the Wagoneer. The service interval for oil changes is the same as the Ram and 87 octane is acceptable in both the standard Hurricane and the Hemi.

 

[DEG]

That's pretty naive. Manufacturers aren't swallowing the cost of making an engine, they pass it directly onto the dude buying it. Not only do they pass the cost on, they charge extra for it and make even more money. Emissions and MPG rules aside, if it weren't for all that nonsense they would love to sell us hemis over the pentastar as its an excuse to raise the price and increase profits.

I know exactly who pays corporate expenses and I know they also seek to make a profit. Profit doesn't always come from receipts; it can also come from a reduction in expenses. Nothing I said was naive in the slightest; you just failed to comprehend.

 

[E.Hands]

The Hurricane engine has been available for a couple of years now in the Wagoneer. The service interval for oil changes is the same as the Ram and 87 octane is acceptable in both the standard Hurricane and the Hemi.

Thanks for that insight.

Again, I am only speculating because I enjoy your intellect but which would you fear detonation in more?
A 70 HP / Liter engine.
or
A 180 HP / Liter engine?

Hopefully with knock sensors neither would experience per-ignition but damn, 180 HP per liter is impressive in a factory motor, let alone in a pick-up!

 

[DEG]

Again, I am only speculating because I enjoy your intellect but which would you fear detonation in more?
A 70 HP / Liter engine.
or
A 180 HP / Liter engine?

Hopefully with knock sensors neither would experience per-ignition but damn, 180 HP per liter is impressive in a factory motor, let alone in a pick-up!

I wouldn't fear it in either if using a fuel listed as acceptable by the manufacture.

 

[Darksteel165]

Look, bottom line: When those 2025's with 540 HP / 521 TRQ under the hood start to whistle past your Hemi... we are all going to be a lil' envious...

LOL feeling envious?
Do you feel envious when an EV flys by you too?
Could care less about those little v6 turbo pickup toys.
I had an F150 fly by me yesterday (after I flew past him at a stop light, guess he thought I was racing him and he was salty that he lost) and it sounded like a little kid was sitting on a whoopie cushion.
I felt embarrassed for him, not envious.

 

[E.Hands]

Could care less about those little v6 turbo pickup toys.

Uh Ok,
Dark, Man you're too easy.
Do us a favor, don't ever square off or line up with a H.O.
M-kay?

 

[Darksteel165]

Uh Ok,
Dark, Man you're too easy.
Do us a favor, don't ever square off or line up with a H.O.
M-kay?

Ram aint making any and they keep firing the people making them so I don't think I need to worry about it.
They see the writing on the wall so they keep laying people off knowing no one is going to buy them.

Stellantis Cuts 199 Full-Time Employees From Its SHAP Facility

Stellantis Cuts 199 Full-Time Employees From Its SHAP Facility Cuts Catch Employees At Ram 1500 Plant Off Guard... https://moparinsiders.com/stellantis-cuts-199-full-time-employees-from-its-shap-facility/

5thgenrams.com

If I wanted a beater tuck with a turbo I would of bought an Ford F150

 

[Dewey]

LOL feeling envious?
Do you feel envious when an EV flys by you too?
Could care less about those little v6 turbo pickup toys.
I had an F150 fly by me yesterday (after I flew past him at a stop light, guess he thought I was racing him and he was salty that he lost) and it sounded like a little kid was sitting on a whoopie cushion.
I felt embarrassed for him, not envious.

I got my doors blown off by a 1987 Buick Grand National one day. V6 turbo and gotta say I was pretty darn envious. That's one turbo V6 I'd love to have.

As far as trucks go the only fast one is a TRX. All the rest are just wannabe's.

 

[silver billet]

I know exactly who pays corporate expenses and I know they also seek to make a profit. Profit doesn't always come from receipts; it can also come from a reduction in expenses. Nothing I said was naive in the slightest; you just failed to comprehend.

Nothing in these trucks gets cheaper to build OR maintain, that is the simple truth. They all get more complicated, more regulated, and less reliable.

Welcome to the future, I'll hang onto my v8.

 

[Darksteel165]

I got my doors blown off by a 1987 Buick Grand National one day. V6 turbo and gotta say I was pretty darn envious. That's one turbo V6 I'd love to have.

As far as trucks go the only fast one is a TRX. All the rest are just wannabe's.

The Rivian is way faster then a TRX. Quad motor is 3.3 seconds 0-60.

 

[JExpedition07]

So you say it's probably cheaper to make but then say they spent a lot of money on R&D. I which is it?

Chrysler has long since recovered the cost for the Hemi R&d. So that is no longer being passed in to consumer. And since it's been around for so long the cost to produce is likely lower than initial production.

The process to apply the hardened coating on the cylinders for the Hurricane is more than just boring and honing a cylinder.

Ford introduced Plasma Transfer Wire Arc cylinder liners with the 3rd gen 5.0L V8 engine in the 2018 F-150. While it is harder than cast iron and reduces pumping losses I’d venture to guess it’s a net cost savings (if you exclude initial equipment investment) over time. They had some teething issue with oil consumption the first year or two, but the 4th gen 5.0L V8 which came out in 2021 updated the pistons and ring packs (among many other things) which resolved the oil consumption. It’s actually a ceramic hybrid and molten iron is sprayed on the bores forming a crystalline structure, very hard surface.

 

[Dewey]

The Rivian is way faster then a TRX. Quad motor is 3.3 seconds 0-60.

I don’t care about electric motors. Unless it runs on gas AND makes a lot of noise those 0-60 numbers are meaningless to me.

 

[Idahoktm]

I have and love my 23 Laramie GT...Console shifter, the sound...but damn. the MPG is disgusting.

I had a 19 Ram 1500 with 3.21 gears. Everyone said 35" rubber on 18" wheels would kill my MPG. Averaged 18.5mpg going 85mph to texas and back. (roughly 2000 miles) and was quite happy. I can handle 18...
My 23 Laramie GT with the 3.92 gears was suppose to be "better" with 35" wheels/tires but holy crap it's not. Not even close. Driving conservatively somewhere between 55 and 65...I'm LUCKY to average 13...but 11.8 is more common.

In the new 2025 with the 3.0...I would MUCH rather have the same HP with even the same MPG my old truck had...but I feel like that's going to be wishful thinking.
I took a 3.0 out for a drive a few days ago, and it's nice, but it sounds like **** and with 35" wheels/tires...I'm not expecting much.
And a GT pkg with 3.92 gears will be hard to stomach if it gets bad mpg AND crappy mpg.

Thank God I have 30 more months before my lease is up to think it all over and see what happens

I love my TRX, but posts like yours make TRX ownership even better. Thanks!

 

[HSKR R/T]

I'm purely just guessing but higher grade fuel & more frequent oil changes more important with forced induction?

-devil's advocate w/ a fear of more complexity.

No need for more frequent oil changes, and the SO can run 87, just like the Hemi

 

[Checker629]

Nearly the same is not the same. According to this story the they expect a 1 mpg improvement with the Hurricane over the Hemi. The $5.50 is for every 1/10th MPG below the standard times number of vehicles sold. So, that 1 mpg improvement can easily save them well over $30 million in fines annually.

Also, it would not surprise me if tougher emission pollution standards coincide with tougher CAFE MPG standards. It's my understanding the Hurricane engine is a much cleaner engine than the Hemi.

Though some here don't believe it, another of the reasons given for the switch is that the Hurricane engine is cheaper to build and maintain. They can offer an HO version that uses most of the same parts as the standard version. I don't know why Stellantis would lie about it being cheaper to build and maintain. It seems reasonable to believe a smaller inline 6 would be cheaper to manufacture even if you threw in a couple of turbos.

When I used to following industry news pretty closely, it was common knowledge that a DOHC multi-valve engine was more expensive to produce than a comparable OHV/pushrod design, and this was in the naturally aspirated days. Now with turbo/intercooling, it's reseaonable to assume that the Hurricane costs more to product than the Hemi. Displacement really doesn't affect costs too much, as its the part numbers that add up and OHC engines use a more parts than OHV/cam-in-block designs. For example, in the GM world, a 4.6L Northstar was overall bigger and slightly heavier engine than a 5.7 LS1 of similar output. Plus, the Hemi is still using a iron block which is cheaper to produce than an aluminum block.

Also, the SO and HO have many different parts between the two. The HO isn't just a software unlock of the SO.

 

[DEG]

When I used to following industry news pretty closely, it was common knowledge that a DOHC multi-valve engine was more expensive to produce than a comparable OHV/pushrod design, and this was in the naturally aspirated days. Now with turbo/intercooling, it's reseaonable to assume that the Hurricane costs more to product than the Hemi. Displacement really doesn't affect costs too much, as its the part numbers that add up and OHC engines use a more parts than OHV/cam-in-block designs. For example, in the GM world, a 4.6L Northstar was overall bigger and slightly heavier engine than a 5.7 LS1 of similar output. Plus, the Hemi is still using a iron block which is cheaper to produce than an aluminum block.

Also, the SO and HO have many different parts between the two. The HO isn't just a software unlock of the SO.

I only know that dozens of auto writers have written that Stellantis has said one of the benefits of the Hurricane engine is that it's cheaper to produce than the Hemi and I have no reason to believe they are lying. One of the things that have made it cheaper is that the high output version is nearly the same motor as the standard output version sharing more of the same components compared to the difference between the 5.7 vs 6.2. engines. It's also not un-reasonable to believe a much smaller straight 6 block would cost less to manufacture than a larger V8 block. Additionally, if you are paying less in EPA fines due to emissions and economy with the new engine that also reduces the production cost.

 

[mikeru82]

I only know that dozens of auto writers have written that Stellantis has said one of the benefits of the Hurricane engine is that it's cheaper to produce than the Hemi and I have no reason to believe they are lying. One of the things that have made it cheaper is that the high output version is nearly the same motor as the standard output version sharing more of the same components compared to the difference between the 5.7 vs 6.2. engines. It's also not un-reasonable to believe a much smaller straight 6 block would cost less to manufacture than a larger V8 block. Additionally, if you are paying less in EPA fines due to emissions and economy with the new engine that also reduces the production cost.

So you're basically arguing hearsay. Dozens of writers say that Stellantis said...Personally I have no idea which is more expensive to produce, nor do I really care. If you're including the cost of carbon credits I have no doubt the Hemi is more expensive. Honestly, it's a moot point. The Hemi is gone, probably for the long term if not for good. Who cares which engine is more expensive? We have the choice of a twin turbo inline six or go with another manufacturer, unless you step up to an HD truck to get the 6.4.

 

[Checker629]

I only know that dozens of auto writers have written that Stellantis has said one of the benefits of the Hurricane engine is that it's cheaper to produce than the Hemi and I have no reason to believe they are lying. One of the things that have made it cheaper is that the high output version is nearly the same motor as the standard output version sharing more of the same components compared to the difference between the 5.7 vs 6.2. engines. It's also not un-reasonable to believe a much smaller straight 6 block would cost less to manufacture than a larger V8 block. Additionally, if you are paying less in EPA fines due to emissions and economy with the new engine that also reduces the production cost.

Now I do agree that they are paying less per engine as it relates to fines so perhaps it's a net savings per engine sold. As for production itself, I don't believe the Hurricane would cost less to manufacturer than a Hemi considering the hardware employed to make it powerful and clean (plasma arc cylinder liners, dual overhead cams with individual cam phasers, aluminum block, high pressure DI hardware, dual water cooled exhaust manifolds and for the H/O- forged pistons, diamond coated pins, oil cooling jets, dual DI fuel pumps, dual turbo cooling circuits) and you begin to see all the features that it has over the Hemi. On top of that, it probably has a really robust set of knock sensors to control cylinder performance since DI allows higher compression ratios in forced induced engines. The Hemi is a relatively simple design that's been around forever. They've added a cam phaser for VVT and the cylinder deactivation hardware but outside of that, it's a really old school design, especially compared to what GM has done with their small block, which likely costs more to produce.