UAW VP Says Stellantis Has Threaten To Move Ram 1500 Production To Mexico

[irishwake63]

With all due respect, punctuation will go a long way to help convey your point.

were you an english teacher?

 

[Grape_Ape]

It's easy to bash "corporations" and support your "fellow common man". Everyone loves to make it sound like all those corporate profits are going to fat cats sitting on yachts. Truth is, for publicly-traded corporations, those profits are going to stock holders. Who are the stock holders? People like me - my 401(k) account is comprised of stocks among other things. So my retirement depends on corporate profits. If a company stops performing well in that regard, and hands over the profits to whiny union workers, then my investments will go elsewhere (along with everyone else's investments). Suddenly the company will be in trouble.
Capitalism is a complex thing, and the socialist-style calls for "better money for everyone" just doesn't work.

You seem to pick and choose what you like to respond to. We're not going to have a socialist nation - we're going to have an authoritarian one when the middle class finally collapses and the oligarchs are allowed to run it.

You've failed to acknowledge that housing has risen 1600% since the 70s. You're obviously doing well for yourself given your truck in your signature. There's no guarantees that your children or grand children will do the same. It objectively gets harder with every generation. Saying "oh well, it's just capitalism" is pawning the issue off on others. I've yet to once recommend socialism as the answer for the record.

 

[Redz72]

were you an english teacher?

No I am not an English teacher. I am just trying to understand the points you are trying to make. Carry on and good luck.

 

[Eighty]

You seem to pick and choose what you like to respond to. We're not going to have a socialist nation - we're going to have an authoritarian one when the middle class finally collapses and the oligarchs are allowed to run it.

You've failed to acknowledge that housing has risen 1600% since the 70s. You're obviously doing well for yourself given your truck in your signature. There's no guarantees that your children or grand children will do the same. It objectively gets harder with every generation. Saying "oh well, it's just capitalism" is pawning the issue off on others. I've yet to once recommend socialism as the answer for the record.

Forcing a company to pay workers more than market value isn't capitalist in nature - it's socialist.

Yes, I'm doing well for myself, but it's not because I was handed an artificially high paycheck from a company forced to bow to union demands. I earn the money I make. I started at the bottom and rose to the top by being better than others at what I do. That's truly the American "dream" - earning your way to a comfortable life. Not having it handed to you. And I'm raising my daughter to understand that she's going to have to earn her living as well. Not have it handed to her.

And who cares if I acknowledge that housing has gone up? So has gas, and bread, and milk. That's inflation, buddy.

 

[irishwake63]

reminds me of a trendy restaurant FK kitchen the guy behind the counter was wearing a tshirt that said crush capitalism paired with his purple hair I ordered a rice bowl and asked for veggies, meat etc and at the end I questioned the price and I was told everything you add is an extra costs and this was the owner lol

 

[Grape_Ape]

Forcing a company to pay workers more than market value isn't capitalist in nature - it's socialist.

Yes, I'm doing well for myself, but it's not because I was handed an artificially high paycheck from a company forced to bow to union demands. I earn the money I make. I started at the bottom and rose to the top by being better than others at what I do. That's truly the American "dream" - earning your way to a comfortable life. Not having it handed to you. And I'm raising my daughter to understand that she's going to have to earn her living as well. Not have it handed to her.

And who cares if I acknowledge that housing has gone up? So has gas, and bread, and milk. That's inflation, buddy.

"That inflation, buddy" yes - so I'm sure you'll sit by idly and watch your wages stagnate for years. How ignorant.

The fact of the matter is that not everyone is going to be a high achiever. I'm no different. I work for one of the best companies in my area. I got here by rising to the top of my profession. If a non union job would beat out my wages and benefits I'd leave.

I simply believe that in the richest nation on earth people should have the opportunity to live the type of life that was common in this country from the 40s though roughly 2008. I fail to see why wanting to literally get America back to what it was in the past is such a problem.

 

[Scram1500]

Does this mean we'll be crossing the border into Mexico for trabaho? That would be ironic. Also, will artificial intelligence give a **** about what country it's working in?

 

[Eighty]

"That inflation, buddy" yes - so I'm sure you'll sit by idly and watch your wages stagnate for years. How ignorant.

The fact of the matter is that not everyone is going to be a high achiever. I'm no different. I work for one of the best companies in my area. I got here by rising to the top of my profession. If a non union job would beat out my wages and benefits I'd leave.

I simply believe that in the richest nation on earth people should have the opportunity to live the type of life that was common in this country from the 40s though roughly 2008. I fail to see why wanting to literally get America back to what it was in the past is such a problem.

No, my wages haven't stagnated. If they did, and I was unhappy about it, I would find another job. I wouldn't sit there whining about it, playing the victim, and holding my employer hostage like the unions are doing. I'd get off my fat a$$ and do better for myself.
As for the second part, I don't know where you got the idea that everyone made a good living from the 40's to 2008. There has always been a stratification in the US - from unemployed/welfare through the low and middle classes, and up to the super-rich. And that's the only way a truly successful capitalist economy works...competition for better pay. If you think burger flippers and bolt-turners should be paid as well as doctors and lawyers, then I would suggest that is socialism bordering on communism (at least, for the economic part of those doctrines).

 

[Grape_Ape]

I've never stated that they should make that much. I fail to see where you're getting that idea. The middle classes shrinks yr over yr. I'd like to see that return. It's pretty simple to understand.

Edit for further clarification on my 40-2000s metric.

The middle class grew and that's what helped make America the powerhouse that it is today. People were able to afford a house and new cars off a single income. Now we have both spouses working full time jobs just to hopefully afford a home.

The reason why I keep preaching about 1600% is because if people aren't able to afford housing then it compounds. There's no new construction on houses. If they can't afford new houses then there's a consolidation of wealth to the landlords. If we're being honest with ourselves then it's very apparent that the majority of people who buy new vehicles have no business buying them. They're saddled by debt. How long can we continue to kick this debt can down the road?

I fundamentally do not believe that socialism or communism is the answer. I just feel like at this stage we're in danger of going wayward. Historically when the middle class shrinks (not us specific here) and there is a big disparity between income there have been power exchanges whether that be revolution or what have you.

As I mentioned above - I work with automation daily. I work with PLCs which automate factory work. I have worked with robotics in a honda supplier. I am well versed in these ideas. I understand AI will not give a damn about what country it's in. Hypothetically speaking - if AI were able to replace 60-70% of the work force then what are we supposed to do? There will always be over achievers. Thankfully I'll be employed still. However, I don't want to see you or your loved ones starve because they've been replaced by machines. At that point we really need to ask ourselves what we're going to value as a society.

 

[irishwake63]

 

[Grape_Ape]

View attachment 168163

What are you proving? That's 28.82/hr. Didn't I already specify that was the average wage.

 

[irishwake63]

What are you proving? That's 28.82/hr. Didn't I already specify that was the average wage.

yes you did but thats on the avg most are making in the 32.00 hr range which is high pay for unskilled labor and the cost of living is not that high up there compared to FL or CA or many other states

 

[Threesuns1]

I've never stated that they should make that much. I fail to see where you're getting that idea. The middle classes shrinks yr over yr. I'd like to see that return. It's pretty simple to understand.

Edit for further clarification on my 40-2000s metric.

The middle class grew and that's what helped make America the powerhouse that it is today. People were able to afford a house and new cars off a single income. Now we have both spouses working full time jobs just to hopefully afford a home.

The reason why I keep preaching about 1600% is because if people aren't able to afford housing then it compounds. There's no new construction on houses. If they can't afford new houses then there's a consolidation of wealth to the landlords. If we're being honest with ourselves then it's very apparent that the majority of people who buy new vehicles have no business buying them. They're saddled by debt. How long can we continue to kick this debt can down the road?

I fundamentally do not believe that socialism or communism is the answer. I just feel like at this stage we're in danger of going wayward. Historically when the middle class shrinks (not us specific here) and there is a big disparity between income there have been power exchanges whether that be revolution or what have you.

As I mentioned above - I work with automation daily. I work with PLCs which automate factory work. I have worked with robotics in a honda supplier. I am well versed in these ideas. I understand AI will not give a damn about what country it's in. Hypothetically speaking - if AI were able to replace 60-70% of the work force then what are we supposed to do? There will always be over achievers. Thankfully I'll be employed still. However, I don't want to see you or your loved ones starve because they've been replaced by machines. At that point we really need to ask ourselves what we're going to value as a society.

Increasing minimum wages increases cost of goods, services, housing, and so on. At what point will it even out? Looks like a "Catch 22".

 

[Grape_Ape]

Increasing minimum wages increases cost of goods, services, housing, and so on. At what point will it even out? Looks like a "Catch 22".

Definitely agree. I know there's a lot. If you're interested I explained that as well further up.

yes you did but thats on the avg most are making in the 32.00 hr range which is high pay for unskilled labor and the cost of living is not that high up there compared to FL or CA or many other states

Yes, I agree they're paid very well. Our operators also make around $33/hr. The reason why I'm arguing for it is they were making that prior to historic inflation. They expect a cost of living wage increase to match. That's just all there is to it. We've all established we would find different jobs if we didn't get raises. These are union employees so negotiating is their next course of action. The unions negotiating pay with some of the largest companies is what will help bring all levels of pay up.

If anyone would like to continue discussing this please feel free to message me.

 

[irishwake63]

right now its you and me that are going to suffer for their demands so the timing sucks

 

[Lpsouth1978]

And what about the rest of us? I am a college educated man, in a skilled Healthcare job making less than many (if not most) of the UAW members. Why should I feel bad for them and expect them to get nearly a 40%, even 25-30% pay increase, when many are un-educated workers making more than MANY Americans? I took the time and effort to get a degree, educate myself, and have spent 24 years getting to where I am at while Union workers can whine. All they had to do was join a union and do their job (as we all must), no education, no skills (just some on job training), and somehow they feel like they deserve more than the rest of us.

Please don't misunderstand, I am not saying that the Union workers don't deserve to be treated and compensated fairly, but from where I'm standing, they seem to be compensated better than MANY workers in America. $60k+ plus pensions, 401k, healthcare, etc., more than many of us with more education and skills receive.