U.S. Full-Sized Truck Sales Comparison: Q2 2023 vs. Q2 2022

[Darksteel165]

I’m gonna have to disagree with you there. You’re focused on power seats, but ignoring a heck of a lot else. Power folding mirrors, LED projector headlights, stuff like that. Heck, a full-size spare for crying out loud. Not even the Limited gets that - well, it gets a full-sized spare, but only a “temporary use” one.

Back to the TRX, only 2.4% of the 2023 TRX’s made are base models. Kinda tells you that people aren’t buying it, they’re picking the higher packages.

Only 2.4% of the 23 TRX were base model was part of my point.
The base MSRP of a TRX doesn't really matter as no one gets them nor do dealerships order them like that as far as I know.

There are a ton of other trims that can be ordered as a base model and be fine, the TRX is lacking and the option package is overpriced, 11k for level 2.
A base TRX has cloth seats, no power passenger side seat, no rear window defroster, no seat memory, no HUD (it's standard on a Limited for example).
I'm sure there is a whole other bunch of things scraped out too.
I mean they even charge you for the truck to say TRX on the hood or rear quarter panels, shouldn't it come standard and be offered as a delete option for $$$ off? Makes the price breakdown even more awkward looking.

And yes the the Limited has a full size spare, but it's an incorrect size and comes with what is essentially a doughnut tire.
I didn't say a Limited wasn't overpriced as it is too.

It's not all "rich people" buying TRXs. Of course that all depends on your definition of what makes a person "rich".

I would say majority. Obviously there are outliers like any other kind of data set.
Here are just a few that help paint the picture.
These stats are just on pickups alone, not luxury or sport pickups which I would think would skew the results even more extreme.

Around 50% of new truck buyers are older then 55 years old.


33% make over 100k+ a year, depending on where you live 100k could be considered as "rich" I suppose. New York or Boston? No way. But down south? maybe. If you have $100k in your checking\savings (non-retirement) account you are rich imo.


This is my second truck I bought new and I don't own a house and never will be able to afford one. It's extremally hard for the younger generation to come up with all that money to even get a down payment on a house that wasn't destroyed with the stupid housing market the past several years.



I wonder if anyone can find the stats of Ram 1500 (all trims except TRX) vs Ram TRX sold in 2021\2022. I'm willing to bet #1 would be a Tradesman then Laramie followed closely by Bighorn and TRX being dead last somewhere between like 3-6% of all Ram 1500s sold.

 

[Eighty]

This is my second truck I bought new therefore I don't own a house and never will be able to afford one.

There, fixed it for you. You’re thirty-ish years old and have already bought two new trucks. If you want to afford a home you have to save every penny you can for a down payment. That’s always been the case.

 

[Darksteel165]

There, fixed it for you. You’re thirty-ish years old and have already bought two new trucks. If you want to afford a home you have to save every penny you can for a down payment. That’s always been the case.

"buying" a truck depends on the definition.
I have never owned a car in my life except a 93 Oldsmobile.
I "only" owe 51k left on my Limited.
Never leased, and never got rid of a car\truck and went belly up.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Only 2.4% of the 23 TRX were base model was part of my point.
The base MSRP of a TRX doesn't really matter as no one gets them nor do dealerships order them like that as far as I know.

There are a ton of other trims that can be ordered as a base model and be fine, the TRX is lacking and the option package is overpriced, 11k for level 2.
A base TRX has cloth seats, no power passenger side seat, no rear window defroster, no seat memory, no HUD (it's standard on a Limited for example).
I'm sure there is a whole other bunch of things scraped out too.
I mean they even charge you for the truck to say TRX on the hood or rear quarter panels, shouldn't it come standard and be offered as a delete option for $$$ off? Makes the price breakdown even more awkward looking.

And yes the the Limited has a full size spare, but it's an incorrect size and comes with what is essentially a doughnut tire.
I didn't say a Limited wasn't overpriced as it is too.




I would say majority. Obviously there are outliers like any other kind of data set.
Here are just a few that help paint the picture.
These stats are just on pickups alone, not luxury or sport pickups which I would think would skew the results even more extreme.

Around 50% of new truck buyers are older then 55 years old.
View attachment 162635

33% make over 100k+ a year, depending on where you live 100k could be considered as "rich" I suppose. New York or Boston? No way. But down south? maybe. If you have $100k in your checking\savings (non-retirement) account you are rich imo.
View attachment 162636

This is my second truck I bought new and I don't own a house and never will be able to afford one. It's extremally hard for the younger generation to come up with all that money to even get a down payment on a house that wasn't destroyed with the stupid housing market the past several years.
View attachment 162637


I wonder if anyone can find the stats of Ram 1500 (all trims except TRX) vs Ram TRX sold in 2021\2022. I'm willing to bet #1 would be a Tradesman then Laramie followed closely by Bighorn and TRX being dead last somewhere between like 3-6% of all Ram 1500s sold.

I'd be willing to bet, that other than the "classic" Warlock models, the Bighorn is probably the #1 seller. I rarely see any Tradesman 5th gens on the road around me. I see more TRXs.

And as for being "rich" your definition includes people who are considered middle class. I'm not rich by any means when it comes to money. But my wife and I own a home, I have my 2020 Built to Serve, she has a 2020 Traverse RS. We have two school vehicles for our kids(both older and not financed), I have my toy 2000 Dakota R/T that I've owned since 2003, and a 1966 D100. I guess to some they would consider me "rich" but I'm far from it.

 

[Biga]

The housing market is tough right now. I'm glad I bought a year ago though, I got in just before interest rates really took off. If I would have waited and bought now, my mortgage payment would be another $450 per month at least.

 

[Eighty]

"buying" a truck depends on the definition.
I have never owned a car in my life except a 93 Oldsmobile.
I "only" owe 51k left on my Limited.
Never leased, and never got rid of a car\truck and went belly up.

My point is, you could drive the ‘93 Oldsmobile for an extra 4 years and put the $1000/mo car payment (or whatever yours is) towards a home down payment. Today’s housing market isn’t any more prohibitive than it was before. The big difference is that today’s young adults don’t generally scrimp/save like previous generations. I see it with my younger employees - they’re always crying about having empty bank accounts, but they live like kings on the weekends and have nice cell phones and trendy clothes.

 

[Darksteel165]

I'd be willing to bet, that other than the "classic" Warlock models, the Bighorn is probably the #1 seller. I rarely see any Tradesman 5th gens on the road around me. I see more TRXs.

And as for being "rich" your definition includes people who are considered middle class. I'm not rich by any means when it comes to money. But my wife and I own a home, I have my 2020 Built to Serve, she has a 2020 Traverse RS. We have two school vehicles for our kids(both older and not financed), I have my toy 2000 Dakota R/T that I've owned since 2003, and a 1966 D100. I guess to some they would consider me "rich" but I'm far from it.

I only think Tradesman for business sales.

I feel like there is a sliding scale when it comes to wealth to age.
Do you think a married couple 22 and 23 years old that own a house and both drive new cars paid off cars are rich?
Now think of that same couple 63 and 64 years old that own a house and drive new cars, they had a lot longer to get to that point for the same amount.

I still haven't seen a TRX in person in my state yet and I currently live in what I would consider a richy town. Mostly Indians that are doctors making an easy 2-4x what I make, lots of BMWs and SUV style cars. I go 5 miles to the next town over and good luck seeing a car\truck parked at a home or apartment that is less then 10 years old.

My point is, you could drive the ‘93 Oldsmobile for an extra 4 years and put the $1000/mo car payment (or whatever yours is) towards a home down payment. Today’s housing market isn’t any more prohibitive than it was before. The big difference is that today’s young adults don’t generally scrimp/save like previous generations. I see it with my younger employees - they’re always crying about having empty bank accounts, but they live like kings on the weekends and have nice cell phones and trendy clothes.

My Oldsmobile went squish because my tires couldn't handle the breaking force required on an onramp to a highway or else I would of kept it longer.
To be clear i'm not crying. I live within my means and I make sacrifices for what I (we) want. I have a stay at home wife and 2 young kids (7 and 3). The median income for my state MA in 2020 was $39,666 for an individual, not very much. I obviously make way more then that to afford a Ram 1500 Limited.
I don't think I ever had an empty bank account except for a very short period when I was in-between jobs at 19 years old living on my own. Was for around 3 months I needed help with rent while I got back on my feet vs trying to move back in with a parent.
If I look at houses near me the cheapest livable house starts at around $450k. How could someone making $40k a year ever afford that even without a car loan?

I would rather have a better quality of life then try and buy a house and be stuck there forever paying a boat load, sure I would love to own but I don't have a down payment and can't afford over 2k a month on a mortgage along with property taxes.
My Limited is an 84 month loan and is around $790 a month, not cheap but not insane. I own my other SUV thanks to Covid money.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I only think Tradesman for business sales.

I feel like there is a sliding scale when it comes to wealth to age.
Do you think a married couple 22 and 23 years old that own a house and both drive new cars paid off cars are rich?
Now think of that same couple 63 and 64 years old that own a house and drive new cars, they had a lot longer to get to that point for the same amount.

I still haven't seen a TRX in person in my state yet and I currently live in what I would consider a richy town. Mostly Indians that are doctors making an easy 2-4x what I make, lots of BMWs and SUV style cars. I go 5 miles to the next town over and good luck seeing a car\truck parked at a home or apartment that is less then 10 years old.


My Oldsmobile went squish because my tires couldn't handle the breaking force required on an onramp to a highway or else I would of kept it longer.
To be clear i'm not crying. I live within my means and I make sacrifices for what I (we) want. I have a stay at home wife and 2 young kids (7 and 3). The median income for my state MA in 2020 was $39,666 for an individual, not very much. I obviously make way more then that to afford a Ram 1500 Limited.
I don't think I ever had an empty bank account except for a very short period when I was in-between jobs at 19 years old living on my own. Was for around 3 months I needed help with rent while I got back on my feet vs trying to move back in with a parent.
If I look at houses near me the cheapest livable house starts at around $450k. How could someone making $40k a year ever afford that even without a car loan?

I would rather have a better quality of life then try and buy a house and be stuck there forever paying a boat load, sure I would love to own but I don't have a down payment and can't afford over 2k a month on a mortgage along with property taxes.
My Limited is an 84 month loan and is around $790 a month, not cheap but not insane. I own my other SUV thanks to Covid money.

Our mortgage is around $1800/mo. My wife and I both pay $1000/mo towards it. My Ram is leased at $403/mo, but I will be buying it at end of lease in December. Wife's Traverse was leased, but we just bought it out and end of lease. We both make decent money, especially for Nebraska, but aren't rich by any means. I could probably afford a TRX if we had bought a cheaper house. I mean, I could probably afford a TRX now if I didn't want to have any extra money for other things. Like the family vacation we just took to Colorado. But I actually want to keep my Built to Serve. It has personal meaning to me being retired Navy and a Navy edition BTS.

 

[CalvinC]

My point is, you could drive the ‘93 Oldsmobile for an extra 4 years and put the $1000/mo car payment (or whatever yours is) towards a home down payment. Today’s housing market isn’t any more prohibitive than it was before. The big difference is that today’s young adults don’t generally scrimp/save like previous generations. I see it with my younger employees - they’re always crying about having empty bank accounts, but they live like kings on the weekends and have nice cell phones and trendy clothes.

I wish I could like this more than once. Shout it from a mountain top.

And I'm a thirty-ish millennial. My first job out of college paid $30k/year and I thought that was terrific. With every raise, bonus or new job, I put every dollar I ever earned above that level of salary into savings or investments, and I maintained that same $30k/year standard of living for 10+ years, well after arriving at very healthy income. I didn't relent on this until we had no debt.

I didn't know it was called snowballing, and I didn't know who Dave Ramsey was. I just thought it made sense.

Rich is having the means to choose never to work another day in your life without worry, while still being able to set your children up well.
So I am very far from "rich" and I have way fewer "things" than many I associate with. But they have way more debt and stress.

 

[Dewey]

I wish I could like this more than once. Shout it from a mountain top.

And I'm a thirty-ish millennial. My first job out of college paid $30k/year and I thought that was terrific. With every raise, bonus or new job, I put every dollar I ever earned above that level of salary into savings or investments, and I maintained that same $30k/year standard of living for 10+ years, well after arriving at very healthy income. I didn't relent on this until we had no debt.

I didn't know it was called snowballing, and I didn't know who Dave Ramsey was. I just thought it made sense.

Rich is having the means to choose never to work another day in your life without worry, while still being able to set your children up well.
So I am very far from "rich" and I have way fewer "things" than many I associate with. But they have way more debt and stress.

Your a smart man. I did the same thru my 20’s-30’s and 40’s. Lived on half my income for the past 30 years and saved/invested the rest. Been mortgage and completely debt free for the last 15 years. Now I get to enjoy my hard work as I will be retiring at 55 the end of this year and never have worry about working again. Good luck to you. Sounds like your well on your way as well.

 

[WXman]

Not a word about Ram's insane price increases?
Ram are doing everything they can to price customers out of their trucks. New strategy is apparently to become a luxury brand with luxury prices.
With today's interest rates and the inflated prices (not to mention dealer markups), many plainly can't afford the payments on anew truck loan anymore.

They are now more expensive than Tundra's. I love my Limited, but can also admit that Tundras have better quality than Ram. Prefer to buy American, but not at any price.

Up until 2021 Ram trucks were a bargain compared to GM and Ford. The price increases in 2022/2023 have pretty much leveled the pricing.

Have you owned a Tundra? I did and although it was a fairly reliable truck, it still had issues. The interior of the Tundra is crap compared to the Ram. Very cheap and plasticky.

I've been shopping all three domestic full size brands heavily lately. What I'm seeing is that RAM is clearly a more expensive truck. It's especially true with the 2500-5500 trucks, but even the 1500s are pricier. With some trims it's shocking what the price difference is.

 

[N0cturnal]

I can't comment on a Tundra quality, but they are the same price when optioned similarly with the Limited appearing to have have more features at a lower price per the website.
Looks like a Capstone is around 84k and a Limited around 82k.
Can you pay that much less then MSRP for a Toyota then a Ram?

I will say I like the interior on the new Tundras, they used to look so cheap but the new ones look pretty good, and still give you a console shifter and dead pedal unlike Ram.

I considered Tundra due to Toyota's reputation but the following things sealed the deal for me to not get one = No V8, smaller interior with hump on the floor in rear, poor turning radius, no provision for tow hooks from factory, also read somewhere that they had to lift the cab to replace turbos when the initial bunch had bad turbo supplier.

 

[Malodave]

My 2021 Laramie Ecodiesel would be about $78K MSRP now before any Dealer Add-Ons.
That is about $7K more than my Laramie at $71K. I got out the door in Dec '20 paying
about $62K with an Extended Warranty. It would be about $500 more a month than the $932
I am paying now.

Malodave

 

[habu987]

The way I see it, Ram was at the front of the 1500 market from 2018-2022 with the DT, but is now stale.

• Including the HD models, Ram doesn’t have as many models as, say, Ford. The F-Series contains 8 different models from the F-150 through the F-600, including chassis cabs and the Lightning, while Ram has 7, including the DS and chassis cabs. Take the DS out and you’re looking at 6 vs 8, with no counterpart to the Lightning.
• Ram has an ancient, and tiny, engine lineup. Both GM and Ford have more engines, and more attractive engines, to boot.
• Since launch in 2018, the biggest change to the Ram 1500 has been the buggy launch of UConnect 5…vs the substantial refreshes that both Ford and GM have done. While Ram still has the nicest interior of the bunch (at least at higher trim levels, can’t speak to the lower trims), it’s lagging nearly everywhere else.
• There are far, far more GM and Ford purists than Ram purists.
• Price increases–if memory serves, when I ordered my almost completely loaded truck in 2018, MSRP was around $64k. MSRP for an identically optioned ’23 is $78k. No clue if that extends down the trim lineup, but $14k in inflation over just 5 years would certainly encourage me to look for other truck options.
• Quality may or may not be subjective amongst the big 3, as when I was on the truck market all 3 were more or less equally prone to (different) failures. For a single point of data, my truck was pretty much flawless for the 3.5 years I had it barring a proclivity for the tires to vacuum up nails and screws (seriously, I had more nail/screw flats with the truck in just 3.5 years than I’ve had in the rest of my car driving history put together!)
• Add in that the rumored HD refresh has been on indefinite hold since the '20 model year, that the 1500 MCR for MY25 is at best minor tweaks and will likely last for 5-6 years, and you get a brand that is resting on its laurels of being class leading for the 1500 in 2018.

 

[Reverse]

FYI: just saw a feature on price increases in the last 5 years, and FCA was at the top: 48% price increase since 2018.

 

[jl13]

FYI: just saw a feature on price increases in the last 5 years, and FCA was at the top: 48% price increase since 2018.

chart @ 47 seconds into 1st the video - they also had a video on renegates and how high the mark ups were on these - $29k msrp plus $10k market adjustment - second video - 1st minute

 

[WXman]

ALL Jeeps except Renegade are showing sales decreases.

Nissan, Toyota, Chevrolet, GMC, and Ford all show truck sales increases. Ram has a slight loss Q2 2023 vs. the same period last year, and a bigger loss YTD.

I don't think I've ever seen this before.

Stale products with huge price tags eventually will lead you to being broke. They're going to have to make big adjustments to price if they want to stay alive....or give us all new products which is unlikely to ever happen.

 

[jl13]

ALL Jeeps except Renegade are showing sales decreases.

Nissan, Toyota, Chevrolet, GMC, and Ford all show truck sales increases. Ram has a slight loss Q2 2023 vs. the same period last year, and a bigger loss YTD.

I don't think I've ever seen this before.

Stale products with huge price tags eventually will lead you to being broke. They're going to have to make big adjustments to price if they want to stay alive....or give us all new products which is unlikely to ever happen.

I think there will be good deals the rest of the year on ram, but it might still be to expensive for a lot of people
they did 10% off on laramie's a while back and currently doing that for some big horn models and I see a lot of additional dealer discounts around $3k and up in my area
I really don't see a lot of work/based models around my area and even a tradesman is expensive - my 4th gen was a tradesman and when I got it back in 2017 I know its several years ago, Ram was much more affordable vs Chevy and Ford not so much these days and it even had the hemi - it might just be my area but they focus too much on higher trims and forgot about the based work truck

 

[HSKR R/T]

Just saw an ad for local dealer doing $10k cash incentives in new Rams, or 2.9% financing for 72 months. I didn't see the fine print to see what models it applied to

 

[jl13]

Just saw an ad for local dealer doing $10k cash incentives in new Rams, or 2.9% financing for 72 months. I didn't see the fine print to see what models it applied to

its probably something similar to what I am seeing over here in some volume dealers
10% off msrp plus dealer discount comes to close to 8k
then you could get another 2k on a trade assist that some dealers seem to be running now - I had not seeing this one in a while, and military program $500 - sometimes they run another incentive so you it can get to 10K more or less on big horns.
rebels and laramie have nice dealer discounts as well - 4-6K depending on dealer