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Transmission oil...

PowerJrod

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Here's a new one, so I was advised by a non dealer tech that at 30k miles is recommended that I change transmission fluid because of the similar wear in that engines experience within their first 1k miles. Now...being that the new 8HP75 transmissions are technically sealed....who thinks that the service will change the fluid or that it's even possible to change it..? Now I haven't had any issues with transmission. And I'd to keep it that way...call it preventive maintenance in this case.
 

vdemarco

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ZF recommends 40,000 miles. So i think that the 30k is reasonable. the transmission isn't sealed, you can change the oil.
There is just no dipstick.
 

PowerJrod

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ZF recommends 40,000 miles. So i think that the 30k is reasonable. the transmission isn't sealed, you can change the oil.
There is just no dipstick.
Ah ok, that makes sense...I haven't check ZF yet...only the Ram manual. Supposedly there's a drain plug on the side of the transmission...somewhere lol. Maybe the no dipstick or separate fill port is reason why they say it's sealed.
 

vdemarco

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Ah ok, that makes sense...I haven't check ZF yet...only the Ram manual. Supposedly there's a drain plug on the side of the transmission...somewhere lol. Maybe the no dipstick or separate fill port is reason why they say it's sealed.

There is a fill plug on the side and a drain plug on the bottom of the pan. Just crawl underneath and take a look.
 

riccnick

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Do not change the oil yourself. You need a scan tool to set the fluid level properly, it is not a simple drain and fill procedure.
 

Willwork4truck

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Question... in the absence of a leak, if the OP were to open the drain plug, measure the amount that comes out, and refill with same, what difference does it make about temps?
 

vdemarco

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Question... in the absence of a leak, if the OP were to open the drain plug, measure the amount that comes out, and refill with same, what difference does it make about temps?
You don't need the scan tool, the procedure requires that you do not let the trans temp go over 120F. you can switch the dash display to show trans temp and look in the car to see how hot it is.

the temp is important because the oil will expand when its heated.
 

Willwork4truck

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Makes sense. So barely warm... I still think volume of fluid out should match that replaced as long as you’ve not had a leak.
 

vdemarco

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There is a involved procedure to check the fluid level, its more than just removing the fill plug and filling. Not hard but many steps.
 

PowerJrod

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Makes sense. So barely warm... I still think volume of fluid out should match that replaced as long as you’ve not had a leak.
Yes and no.. From what I was told the transmission oil can only be changed after it's been sitting for at least a day in an environment that's between 40 - 80 degrees. This tech could be full of crap...who knows, but I wouldn't attempt changing it myself... especially while still being under warranty lol. This post is more about opinions on having the oil changed at 30k miles and what everyones thoughts are on that.
 

Willwork4truck

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Yes and no.. From what I was told the transmission oil can only be changed after it's been sitting for at least a day in an environment that's between 40 - 80 degrees. This tech could be full of crap...who knows, but I wouldn't attempt changing it myself... especially while still being under warranty lol. This post is more about opinions on having the oil changed at 30k miles and what everyones thoughts are on that.
Different... anyway I’d say unless towing, 30k is unduly cautious. I’d likely go to 40k+ on a regularly driven truck. These ZF’s have been out awhile, should be some better info on lifespan out there somewhere.

As far as taking it to your dealer, here’s a slightly old article about it on “oildepot.ca”:

Further into this article is this rather frightening information: (Begin copied portion of article below):

Note that as these ZF 8-speed transmissions are relatively new in Dodge applications, very few Dodge dealers have actually performed an oil change on them. More often than not, service advisors will offer their “$159.00 ATF Flush Special” when you request an ATF change for these trucks. Once you ask them to check on the cost of the ZF 8&9 Speed oil and the pan/filter, they quickly learn that this is no ordinary ATF flush.

Price of Mopar ZF 8&9 Speed ATF
  • USA- $43.25 to $48.87 per quart (946ml)
  • Canada- $58.40 to $70.00 per quart (946ml)
Your eyes aren’t deceiving you; Mopar ZF 8&9 Speed ATF costs almost $50 per quart in the US and upwards of $70 per quart in Canada. For a complete fluid change, 9 quarts will be required and possibly one or two extra for the flushing proposes. Why is this ATF so expensive? Who knows? There are top-flight full synthetic substitutes (we offer a suggestion below) that meet the ZF 8&9-Speed spec and are available for a fraction of what Dodge dealers charge for this oil.

Mopar ZF 8&9 Speed ATF is a full synthetic oil made by Shell and is also marketed as ZF Lifeguard 8. The industry spec for this oil is Shell “M-L12108”. Shell designed and manufactures this ATF for the OEM’s but does not market an M-L12108 compatible fluid under the Shell brand. This fluid has a low viscosity to minimize friction for maximum fuel economy. The factory-fill ZF fluid has a translucent, slightly green appearance with an additive that helps technicians detect leaks under UV light.

Price Of Mopar ZF Oil Pan (Part # 68225344AA)
  • USA- $335.00 To $378.55
  • Canada- $453.00 to $522.00
The Mopar 68225344AA oil pan for ZF transmissions is a plastic unit with a non-removable, non-serviceable oil filter molded into it. Therefore, the pan has to be replaced when a complete oil change service is performed. The filter itself has a synthetic media, while the pan also has strategically placed magnets to gather metal filings. Also included with this kit is a gasket, replacement pan bolts and a replacement oil fill plug. While this plastic oil pan is reasonably well-designed, its finest attribute is its ability to completely empty your wallet.”
End of copied portion of article
That cost might slow people down from getting it changed at 30k...supposedly each quart at the dealer is about $45.00...

On the wrangler forum, there’s a Jan 30, 2018 thread about it:

ZF contradicts FCA on ZF8 "Lifetime" transmission fluid.
Begin copied post:
Hey guys,
I've been doing some research on the ZF8's supposedly "lifetime" transmission fluid. I've even scoured some Audi and Bimmer forums for information, so you don't have to.
All of FCA's 2017 owners manuals for the various vehicles that use the ZF8 (i.e. Chrysler 200, RAM 1500 etc.) specify that the ZF8 fluid is lifetime and never needs to be changed. They don't even specify a severe duty fluid change interval for it.
However ZF explicitly recommends a 100,000 km or 8 year (whichever comes first) fluid change schedule on their website here:
https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us...s_corporate/how_to_change_oil/change_oil.html
And here's a video from the ZF YouTube channel which confirms the same thing...”
End of copied post.
 
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Willwork4truck

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While this thread is about changing fluid at 30K, it might be advisable to find out what the real costs are are prior to even thinking about it.
Further looking on Amazon using a generic 2019 RAM 1500 as the “garage” vehicle gave me this (appears to be correct however don’t quote me or order off this information...):
1591965773543.jpeg
ZF Automatic Transmission Oil Pan Filter Kit 1087298247 and 7 Liters of ZF Transmission Fluid (Lifeguard 8 - S671090312)
by ZF
4.0 out of 5 stars 9 ratings

| 14 answered questions



Price:$250.00 & FREE Shipping

Pay $250.00
Brand New ZF Parts Transmission Oil Pan & Oil
  • OE #: 24 11 8 612 901, 83 22 2 289 720
  • ZF Parts #: 1087 298 247, Lifeguard 8

I also found this one which says that it fits a 5th gen 19‘ Laramie Trim 1500:
Dorman 265-850 Automatic Transmission Oil Pan for Select Models, Black (OE FIX)
by Dorman
5.0 out of 5 stars 1 rating

| 4 answered questions



List Price:$216.99
Price:$140.95 & FREE Shipping. Details & FREE Returns
You Save:$76.04 (35%)

Smart replacement - this replacement transmission oil pan features a removable filter to simplify future service
  • Complete kit - includes new transmission pan, filter, gasket and bolts for complete conversion
  • Reduces maintenance cost - direct replacement filter is available separately for less expensive future service
 
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PowerJrod

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Good Lord that was a head full of info. But here's the funny thing...ZFs website doesn't have **** for info on the newer 8HP75 transmission, only the 8HP50 and "other" 8 speeds, yet that link you posted did...I find that kind of strange. I haven't contacted the service center yet to find out the cost, however, if I wait until 40 or 50k I wouldn't care if it costs around $500 or so as long as it gets taken care of properly. There's a lot to consider here and that's why I knew this would be a good discussion. Oh and the other thing....I've noticed that some articles talk about the 8 and 9 speeds needing the same oil, same type of maintenance, etc....but ZF clearly states that the 2 transmissions are VERY different from each other in terms of design, build and maintenance...something to think about there.
 

The Critic

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Just printed these documents from Techauthority.

Oil Pan Part # is 68225344AA
Oil Pan Gasket (not sure if pan comes with the gasket) #68172556AA
Mopar ZF 8AT/9AT Fluid Part #68218925AB
 

Attachments

  • 8HP75 Torque Specs.pdf
    7.4 KB · Views: 110
  • 8HP75 AT Fluid Level Adjustment.pdf
    6.6 KB · Views: 135
  • 8HP75 AT Fluid and Filter Change.pdf
    649.2 KB · Views: 114

Willwork4truck

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Nice long 7 page thread over on ramforum.com about late 4th gen 8 speed transmission fluid changing, what is the right type of fluid, the need or not to change etc...
A couple “know-it-alls” there but you can still get some decent information to help you make a decision on when to change. What I got out of it is that nobody there seems to be changing fluid prior to at least 60K, if not higher, and then mostly if they tow. The thread is titled: 8 speed transmission fluid, and is found in 'Engine & Performance' started by texasfan88, Mar 4, 2020.
 

Nukegm426

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What’s interesting is if you look at the zf transmissions themselves they don’t call for any fancy oil... we have zf transmissions in Some of our industrial pumps and the manual actual calls for the same oil in most of the automotive applications as well. Mopar is notorious for having an oil made specifically for them that’s just a rebranded normal oil of some kind. Usually you can find an alternative oil that meets the required specs for far cheaper. The 6-speed manual in my old rubicon called for some high dollar oil and in the end plain pen oil
Synchromesh met the same api specs for far cheaper.

Different... anyway I’d say unless towing, 30k is unduly cautious. I’d likely go to 40k+ on a regularly driven truck. These ZF’s have been out awhile, should be some better info on lifespan out there somewhere.

As far as taking it to your dealer, here’s a slightly old article about it on “oildepot.ca”:

Further into this article is this rather frightening information: (Begin copied portion of article below):

Note that as these ZF 8-speed transmissions are relatively new in Dodge applications, very few Dodge dealers have actually performed an oil change on them. More often than not, service advisors will offer their “$159.00 ATF Flush Special” when you request an ATF change for these trucks. Once you ask them to check on the cost of the ZF 8&9 Speed oil and the pan/filter, they quickly learn that this is no ordinary ATF flush.

Price of Mopar ZF 8&9 Speed ATF
  • USA- $43.25 to $48.87 per quart (946ml)
  • Canada- $58.40 to $70.00 per quart (946ml)
Your eyes aren’t deceiving you; Mopar ZF 8&9 Speed ATF costs almost $50 per quart in the US and upwards of $70 per quart in Canada. For a complete fluid change, 9 quarts will be required and possibly one or two extra for the flushing proposes. Why is this ATF so expensive? Who knows? There are top-flight full synthetic substitutes (we offer a suggestion below) that meet the ZF 8&9-Speed spec and are available for a fraction of what Dodge dealers charge for this oil.

Mopar ZF 8&9 Speed ATF is a full synthetic oil made by Shell and is also marketed as ZF Lifeguard 8. The industry spec for this oil is Shell “M-L12108”. Shell designed and manufactures this ATF for the OEM’s but does not market an M-L12108 compatible fluid under the Shell brand. This fluid has a low viscosity to minimize friction for maximum fuel economy. The factory-fill ZF fluid has a translucent, slightly green appearance with an additive that helps technicians detect leaks under UV light.

Price Of Mopar ZF Oil Pan (Part # 68225344AA)
  • USA- $335.00 To $378.55
  • Canada- $453.00 to $522.00
The Mopar 68225344AA oil pan for ZF transmissions is a plastic unit with a non-removable, non-serviceable oil filter molded into it. Therefore, the pan has to be replaced when a complete oil change service is performed. The filter itself has a synthetic media, while the pan also has strategically placed magnets to gather metal filings. Also included with this kit is a gasket, replacement pan bolts and a replacement oil fill plug. While this plastic oil pan is reasonably well-designed, its finest attribute is its ability to completely empty your wallet.”
End of copied portion of article
That cost might slow people down from getting it changed at 30k...supposedly each quart at the dealer is about $45.00...

On the wrangler forum, there’s a Jan 30, 2018 thread about it:

ZF contradicts FCA on ZF8 "Lifetime" transmission fluid.
Begin copied post:
Hey guys,
I've been doing some research on the ZF8's supposedly "lifetime" transmission fluid. I've even scoured some Audi and Bimmer forums for information, so you don't have to.
All of FCA's 2017 owners manuals for the various vehicles that use the ZF8 (i.e. Chrysler 200, RAM 1500 etc.) specify that the ZF8 fluid is lifetime and never needs to be changed. They don't even specify a severe duty fluid change interval for it.
However ZF explicitly recommends a 100,000 km or 8 year (whichever comes first) fluid change schedule on their website here:
https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us...s_corporate/how_to_change_oil/change_oil.html
And here's a video from the ZF YouTube channel which confirms the same thing...”
End of copied post.
 

PowerJrod

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Nice long 7 page thread over on ramforum.com about late 4th gen 8 speed transmission fluid changing, what is the right type of fluid, the need or not to change etc...
A couple “know-it-alls” there but you can still get some decent information to help you make a decision on when to change. What I got out of it is that nobody there seems to be changing fluid prior to at least 60K, if not higher, and then mostly if they tow. The thread is titled: 8 speed transmission fluid, and is found in 'Engine & Performance' started by texasfan88, Mar 4, 2020.
I've read something similar too. But the reason this got me thinking is because I saw a video (after talking with this tech) of someone taking apart a transmission after about 35k miles and it looked dirty as hell on the inside due to supposed normal wear-in. Of course there was no proof that it was 35k miles on the transmission but there's nothing to gain from lying about it..
 

Polo08816

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Do not change the oil yourself. You need a scan tool to set the fluid level properly, it is not a simple drain and fill procedure.

That is "sort of" correct. I've done this a few times on a BMW and in that case you would want to use the ISTA Rheingold software to do this. However, the only input the software/scan tool does take is from the temperature sensor inside the transmission. If the temperature conditions are met, the software/scan tool provides instructions on how to fill and the transmission (when and how long to cycle thru gears to fill up both the torque converter and the volume inside th transmission cooler/transmission cooler lines.

You can get around this by measuring exactly how much you drain. The assumption on this is that the previous fill is correct. Also, you'll most likely need to fill the transmission to a level above the fill port if you're not going to fill up the torque converter by cycling thru gears.

No matter which way you do it, I would recommend measuring the amount that you drain so you can use this figure as a sanity check if you run into any snafus while filling the transmission.
 

PowerJrod

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That is "sort of" correct. I've done this a few times on a BMW and in that case you would want to use the ISTA Rheingold software to do this. However, the only input the software/scan tool does take is from the temperature sensor inside the transmission. If the temperature conditions are met, the software/scan tool provides instructions on how to fill and the transmission (when and how long to cycle thru gears to fill up both the torque converter and the volume inside th transmission cooler/transmission cooler lines.

You can get around this by measuring exactly how much you drain. The assumption on this is that the previous fill is correct. Also, you'll most likely need to fill the transmission to a level above the fill port if you're not going to fill up the torque converter by cycling thru gears.

No matter which way you do it, I would recommend measuring the amount that you drain so you can use this figure as a sanity check if you run into any snafus while filling the transmission.
With how these transmissions are nowadays....think I'll just have a Ram service center take care of it. Too much going on just for a transmission fluid change with these.
 

Polo08816

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With how these transmissions are nowadays....think I'll just have a Ram service center take care of it. Too much going on just for a transmission fluid change with these.

I think the biggest challenge in this procedure is really waiting on the temperature to come down on the transmission if you exceed the filling temperature range. I wouldn't be surprised that the dealership does this procedure at the end of the day and leaves the truck on the lift in order to fill it next morning.

Here's a long thread on the BMW F30 forums on the procedure:

 

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