Start/Stop function

[SacRebel]

Would you have to request the powertrain update specifically? I had my truck in the shop a couple weeks ago and asked that they make sure it had the latest software on it, in which they said it did. Truck was built in October and purchased in December. So not sure when this so called powertrain update was last updated. All I know is my MPG is getting worse!

 

[riccnick]

Would you have to request the powertrain update specifically? I had my truck in the shop a couple weeks ago and asked that they make sure it had the latest software on it, in which they said it did. Truck was built in October and purchased in December. So not sure when this so called powertrain update was last updated. All I know is my MPG is getting worse!

It's an RRT (Rapid Response Transmittal) update, which means it's mandatory any time the dealer gets the vehicle. Almost like a recall, but it's not a safety problem. (there are three different ones all tied together) Check the TSB thread, they're in there.

 

[bigrodent]

Hey man, just to keep this thread clean (it in itself is redundant too), and to make it easier for you as well, I'd suggest a search for the other eTorque topics and read up. You're not the only one not seeing the eTorque mpg benefits (myself included). There's a ton of reading and discussion about it around the forums. Also, there are powertrain updates for the eTorque trucks, once again, info found in the other threads, but it smooths out the eTorque shifting at low speeds.

Thanks, I will try another search for more threads. I mostly searched for regenerative braking and found no topics. I will hunt harder and I will see what the dealer techs can do as far as an update. I would have thought that just having picked up my truck in Feb-19 that they would have all the updates on it. Thanks again.

 

[Edwards]

I don't notice regenerative braking sensation at all. I am not sure how the thing could be any smoother than it is. Mileage? 18.8 mpg in stop and go rush hour traffic is what I have been getting in the first 700 miles. 50% of that is literally stop and go. Traffic has been horrible since I picked up my truck. I suppose I could blame the truck for that though.

What was your build date? I had the three RRT's applied but since then think they bungled the flash because it's still basically the same.

 

[Edwards]

roughly 2-21-19 I think. Late February in general. I think I ordered on 2-7 and got confirmation on 2-11 and it was built lickety split.

Ah, thanks. Might be good to put in your sig for the next person who asks. Should be a safe assumption that you have the latest and greatest FW on your truck, hence the smoothness.

 

[392DCGC]

I have this awful behavior that someone mentioned might be regenerative braking... I let the truck coast as I enter a turn and the system grabs my truck like it is in a massive gear downshift. (The gear doesn't change though) The truck slows down more than I wanted it to for the turn and then I have to hit the gas pedal again. Meanwhile my passengers are getting sick from the jerking around. Is this all do to the regenerative braking? Can they tune this better with an update or turn it off altogether? I am ok with the Auto Start/Stop and I think it is much better than others but at what cost? Is the battery only fed through regenerative brakes or does it get fed through a normal alternator as well? Is there still benefit to AutoStart w/o regenerative brakes? I simply cannot adjust to this feeling at all.

Also, my MPG is awful. I know the 3.92 is supposed to affect it but in normal city driving I get about 12.5MPG. On a 700 mile mostly highway trip I got about 15MPG. I would deal better with this system if I felt I was actually getting something from it.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

What you're describing is completely different from my truck. For me, it took about a week to figure out when regen braking was even active, and I've had 2 Teslas! The regen braking in this truck is miniscule. Jerking your passengers back and forth and making them sick sounds like a gross exaggeration - if that's happening, you have an issue with the truck or your driving habits. Regen should scrub off about 1 MPH/sec that your foot is off the accelerator. Either learn to let off the accelerator later so you don't have to hit the gas again, or leave your foot barely feathered on the accelerator to coast.

Regen braking is great. Helps capture otherwise wasted energy, and extends the life of your brakes.

 

[Edwards]

What you're describing is completely different from my truck. For me, it took about a week to figure out when regen braking was even active, and I've had 2 Teslas! The regen braking in this truck is miniscule. Jerking your passengers back and forth and making them sick sounds like a gross exaggeration - if that's happening, you have an issue with the truck or your driving habits. Regen should scrub off about 1 MPH/sec that your foot is off the accelerator. Either learn to let off the accelerator later so you don't have to hit the gas again, or leave your foot barely feathered on the accelerator to coast.

Regen braking is great. Helps capture otherwise wasted energy, and extends the life of your brakes.

I've got some occasionally jerky transmission issues but have never thought it was regen. I blame the hydraulic accumulator that the eTorque equipped transmissions have along with earlier, less refined firmware. It downshifts rather harshly sometimes where it acts like engine braking is all you've got.

 

[Rampat]

Hey man, just to keep this thread clean (it in itself is redundant too), and to make it easier for you as well, I'd suggest a search for the other eTorque topics and read up. You're not the only one not seeing the eTorque mpg benefits (myself included). There's a ton of reading and discussion about it around the forums. Also, there are powertrain updates for the eTorque trucks, once again, info found in the other threads, but it smooths out the eTorque shifting at low speeds.

Can you help me find these other threads please? I’m interested in the smoothing out. My mileage is ok.

 

[bigrodent]

Ah, thanks. Might be good to put in your sig for the next person who asks. Should be a safe assumption that you have the latest and greatest FW on your truck, hence the smoothness.

I don't know my exact build date but I closed on 2/21/19 so I think they finished it around 1/18/19? So my truck is currently in the dealership for another issue (two front cracked control arms... how is this even possible??) and I asked about all of my issues and they said there are no updates for my VIN. 2 weeks with the truck and into the dealer it goes for over a week waiting for parts and no real responses from them on the other issues.

Also, note that the rental they gave me is a 2019 Classic Tradesman level with a standard HEMI and it is super smooth in every way.

 

[Neurobit]

I don't know my exact build date but I closed on 2/21/19 so I think they finished it around 1/18/19? So my truck is currently in the dealership for another issue (two front cracked control arms... how is this even possible??) and I asked about all of my issues and they said there are no updates for my VIN. 2 weeks with the truck and into the dealer it goes for over a week waiting for parts and no real responses from them on the other issues.

Also, note that the rental they gave me is a 2019 Classic Tradesman level with a standard HEMI and it is super smooth in every way.

Build date will be in the sticker on your driver's door jam.

Cheers,

 

[bigrodent]

What you're describing is completely different from my truck. For me, it took about a week to figure out when regen braking was even active, and I've had 2 Teslas! The regen braking in this truck is miniscule. Jerking your passengers back and forth and making them sick sounds like a gross exaggeration - if that's happening, you have an issue with the truck or your driving habits. Regen should scrub off about 1 MPH/sec that your foot is off the accelerator. Either learn to let off the accelerator later so you don't have to hit the gas again, or leave your foot barely feathered on the accelerator to coast.

Regen braking is great. Helps capture otherwise wasted energy, and extends the life of your brakes.

So one of the reasons I bought this truck is because the test drive was so smooth. One of my boys was born with stomach issues, so it is not enough to make me sick but my boy immediately rolls down the window to get air as we drive around town. The jerking goes like this... Driving along at 30, nice and smooth, I am heading into a turn so I let off the gas. After a few seconds, something in the system grabs it that feels like a moderate to heavy downshift but the gear is the same (3 or 4 depending), as I turn it keeps slowing to the point where I need more gas so I hit the gas and it accelerates with a bit of a jerk forward. Then... if there are any gear shifts that go on during this process you definitely feel them.

I am currently renting a 2019 Classic Tradesman and it is really nice and smooth. I wish my Laramie was this nice.

 

[bigrodent]

I've got some occasionally jerky transmission issues but have never thought it was regen. I blame the hydraulic accumulator that the eTorque equipped transmissions have along with earlier, less refined firmware. It downshifts rather harshly sometimes where it acts like engine braking is all you've got.

Can you explain more about how this works? When you see the harsh downshifts are you seeing the gear number on the dash change? (i do wonder if the number is not always immediate with the shift...)

To be perfectly honest I have NO IDEA what is causing my issue. My first thought is that it was transmission too. Someone else here suggested it may be regen braking because I was coasting. It is really annoying given how smooth I know this truck could be. ( and my current loaner Tradesman is...)

Thanks for the new thought.

 

[Edwards]

Can you explain more about how this works? When you see the harsh downshifts are you seeing the gear number on the dash change? (i do wonder if the number is not always immediate with the shift...)

To be perfectly honest I have NO IDEA what is causing my issue. My first thought is that it was transmission too. Someone else here suggested it may be regen braking because I was coasting. It is really annoying given how smooth I know this truck could be. ( and my current loaner Tradesman is...)

Thanks for the new thought.

For eTorque equipped trucks there are only two major differences that apply here as I see it. One is the MGU adding/removing torque to smooth upshifts/downshifts per FCA literature/videos.

The 2nd is the hydraulic accumulator that is only found on the Etorque-equipped transmissions. That is storing ATF under pressure so that when you restart after a stop the transmission is primed and ready to shift. I believe the programming is still not optimized on eTorque models so while slowing the tranny is trying to build up pressure too fast.

I could be way off here, but there is something that creates significant drag while coasting that is not present on non-eTorque trucks. It feels like downshifts where the driver is popping the clutch to create significant, jerky engine braking. It's got to be one of these and the 3 RRTs did not correct it for me although I strongly suspect the dealer did not clear my adaptives when they flashed it.

 

[bigrodent]

For eTorque equipped trucks there are only two major differences that apply here as I see it. One is the MGU adding/removing torque to smooth upshifts/downshifts per FCA literature/videos.

The 2nd is the hydraulic accumulator that is only found on the Etorque-equipped transmissions. That is storing ATF under pressure so that when you restart after a stop the transmission is primed and ready to shift. I believe the programming is still not optimized on eTorque models so while slowing the tranny is trying to build up pressure too fast.

I could be way off here, but there is something that creates significant drag while coasting that is not present on non-eTorque trucks. It feels like downshifts where the driver is popping the clutch to create significant, jerky engine braking. It's got to be one of these and the 3 RRTs did not correct it for me although I strongly suspect the dealer did not clear my adaptives when they flashed it.

Ok, I just got my truck back and they fixed front broken sway links in the suspension and I asked them about all of the other issues that I have. (MPG, MGU issues, etc...) They kept telling me that all of the software systems are up to date and there are no further updates. I read to them your post about clearing the adaptives and that encouraged them to do *something*. Here is what they said they did: "cleared adaptives, proxy aligned modules". (hopefully someone here can explain more about exactly what they are doing here)

The ride home I got zero "grabs" except when applying the brake and they were very minor. This is not my normal path home but it is a similar suburban side road type of ride home. It was roughly 14 miles from the dealership and I got 16.9 MPG! This is unheard of for me, every local drive I do is always around 12.5MPG. Obviously there was more testing to be done but this is better than my previous highway mileage.

Day 2- Day 4... Slowly my mileage has climbed back down to 13.3 and headed downward the more I drive. The grabs are coming back including the infamous "bring me to a near stop after I brake and coast".

I would be interested to get your thoughts.

 

[Edwards]

Ok, I just got my truck back and they fixed front broken sway links in the suspension and I asked them about all of the other issues that I have. (MPG, MGU issues, etc...) They kept telling me that all of the software systems are up to date and there are no further updates. I read to them your post about clearing the adaptives and that encouraged them to do *something*. Here is what they said they did: "cleared adaptives, proxy aligned modules". (hopefully someone here can explain more about exactly what they are doing here)

The ride home I got zero "grabs" except when applying the brake and they were very minor. This is not my normal path home but it is a similar suburban side road type of ride home. It was roughly 14 miles from the dealership and I got 16.9 MPG! This is unheard of for me, every local drive I do is always around 12.5MPG. Obviously there was more testing to be done but this is better than my previous highway mileage.

Day 2- Day 4... Slowly my mileage has climbed back down to 13.3 and headed downward the more I drive. The grabs are coming back including the infamous "bring me to a near stop after I brake and coast".

I would be interested to get your thoughts.

Sounds like what I experienced and since it was good after having the adaptives cleared it means that the newly flashed programs are reintroducing this behavior. I think Ram reworking their programming for the three modules and us getting reflashed is the only solution.

 

[bigrodent]

Sounds like what I experienced and since it was good after having the adaptives cleared it means that the newly flashed programs are reintroducing this behavior. I think Ram reworking their programming for the three modules and us getting reflashed is the only solution.

Do you think we have any actions other than waiting for them to identify and fix? Does reporting this issue directly or through the dealers help?

What is interesting to me is the link between this issue and the MPG issue.

 

[MG99]

I’ll settle this...
It needs is 1.21 “jiggawats” of electricity (from lightening) to power the flux capacitor and once it hits 88mph, only then, can you time travel in your Ram...BOOM!

 

[Edwards]

Do you think we have any actions other than waiting for them to identify and fix? Does reporting this issue directly or through the dealers help?

What is interesting to me is the link between this issue and the MPG issue.

Not that I know of. I'm not making my dealer miserable over it, but raise it as an issue every time I'm there so it get's logged.

That is interesting that you see that much of a MPG difference. I'm not but more variables does not point to simple problems.

 

[Edwards]

You might also reach out to @RamCares to have them log it but I'd also make sure your dealer has the issue logged.

 

[Panhandle Ram]

I also have the etorque with 3.92 , have 1500 miles now give or take. I disagree in not seeing the MPG difference coming from a 2014 1500 hemi. regen braking I dont think is the problem. from what I can tell with gear indicator on dash, is the sudden downshift pull, its "capturing the downshift energy". It is very noticeable, unpleasant but predictable. I suspect it would be less noticable when towing heavy. It's almost too much, at times at slow speeds and empty. If I had a full glass of water it would spill from the braking applied by etorque motor. Ram fan fyi. I'm coming from a 4th gen 2wd 6speed hemi tradesman. I do straight coastal city driving and literally apply brakes to point of triggering regen braking and downshift and let it stop my truck, I've likened it to a game to try and make a smooth stop. where I further apply brakes/depress to smooth it out as much as i can. It appears it's doing most of the stopping of the truck and I'm charging the 48v battery..it doesnt appear to do it on 2nd and 1st gear thankfully, 7tg-3rd with progressively harsher downshifts
probably smash your forehand on the dash if it did 2nd and 1st.. Seriously... another point. There is no way to charge this battery other than operation, further there is no gauge to see what % charge it has or anything. That's a negative imo. I feel if I was to be able to charge it prior to use it would last thru the many stoplights without firing back up. The charge is inadequate for a long light with ac and radio playing if you haven't driven very far prior to build a charge. Which is my everyday event. Better have your foot solid on brake when battery runs out at the light, it powers forward upon startup little harder than you like, and lightly holding brakes may not be enough. You can hear the brake pads slip a bit, its powered that much. I'd go non etorque if I knew how annoying it became long term. And I worry about my wife or family driving it with issues listed above.