Rebel Gas Hog

[DivrGuy]

I think I've discovered the reason for a small portion of the Rebel's gas mileage woes. I don't think the odometer is calibrated differently than the other models, despite the larger diameter tires. On a trip to see my mom yesterday, out of curiosity, I reset my trip odometer as I passed a mile marker. After 20 miles of mile markers, my odometer read 19.4. Now I don't know how the DOT measures the mile marker placement or how accurate it is, but I took made the same comparison across two different counties on two different stretches of road, same results. That's a 3% difference, which is roughly the same as the difference in circumference between the normal 32" tires on the other models and the 33" on the Rebel. So at 16 mpg, that would actually be 16.5 mpg.
I see posts of other drivers with trucks with the ORP, that are mechanically about the same as the Rebel aside from the tire and wheels, and they are getting noticeably better mileage than the Rebel. I still think a lot of it is the aggressive tread, heavier, LT rated Duratracs. As I mentioned earlier, I read an article where a magazine compared gas mileage between a street tire (Michelin LTX M/S2) and an aggressive AT (Rick Cepek Fun Country II) which was about 13 lbs heavier. Same size tires, same truck, same stretch of road, same day, same speed. The AT's got 2.25 mpg less. Add that to the .5 from the odometer and that's nearly 3 mpg.

 

[Jhill]

I think I've discovered the reason for a small portion of the Rebel's gas mileage woes. I don't think the odometer is calibrated differently than the other models, despite the larger diameter tires. On a trip to see my mom yesterday, out of curiosity, I reset my trip odometer as I passed a mile marker. After 20 miles of mile markers, my odometer read 19.4. Now I don't know how the DOT measures the mile marker placement or how accurate it is, but I took made the same comparison across two different counties on two different stretches of road, same results. That's a 3% difference, which is roughly the same as the difference in circumference between the normal 32" tires on the other models and the 33" on the Rebel. So at 16 mpg, that would actually be 16.5 mpg.
I see posts of other drivers with trucks with the ORP, that are mechanically about the same as the Rebel aside from the tire and wheels, and they are getting noticeably better mileage than the Rebel. I still think a lot of it is the aggressive tread, heavier, LT rated Duratracs. As I mentioned earlier, I read an article where a magazine compared gas mileage between a street tire (Michelin LTX M/S2) and an aggressive AT (Rick Cepek Fun Country II) which was about 13 lbs heavier. Same size tires, same truck, same stretch of road, same day, same speed. The AT's got 2.25 mpg less. Add that to the .5 from the odometer and that's nearly 3 mpg.

One thing good about it is if your hypothesis is true for all Rebels, those of us with Rebels will have 3% less miles on odometer at trade in time. You would think engineers would design speedo system so that when they calibrate for accurate road speed it would also link to accurate odometer operation. Maybe everyone that reads this and has the opportunity to check calibration against the DOT mileage markers could add info to this thread to prove your hypothesis. I will next opportunity for sure! Nice discovery.....

 

[19reb]

I'm sure all Rams were tuned for the proper tire size. Otherwise the speedo would be off by 2 mph or so on the Rebel. You would be traveling at 62.1 instead of 60. My speedometer is spot on according to the GPS on my phone.

 

[DivrGuy]

I'm sure all Rams were tuned for the proper tire size. Otherwise the speedo would be off by 2 mph or so on the Rebel. You would be traveling at 62.1 instead of 60. My speedometer is spot on according to the GPS on my phone.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I've used a couple of tuning apps before (EFI Live and Jet DST) and the only thing you changed to correct your speedo and odo was to set the correct tire size. That controlled both readings. But those were older cars, so maybe the technology has changed and perhaps they are calibrated separately. My last truck had 1" bigger tires on the off-road model, but the speedometers for all models were just calibrated one way. The truck I had was non-off-road and whenever I passed the radar speed limit signs, it would be off 2-3 mph from my speedo. I later put tires on it which matched the off-road model and then the speedo was dead on with the radar signs. I never tried to check the odometer against anything. I just downloaded a GPS odometer app on my phone. It's supposed to be accurate to within 33 feet. I'm going to test it against that next time I drive somewhere with at least 10 miles. Anything less than that probably isn't a good sample size to me.

 

[ChadT]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I've used a couple of tuning apps before (EFI Live and Jet DST) and the only thing you changed to correct your speedo and odo was to set the correct tire size. That controlled both readings. But those were older cars, so maybe the technology has changed and perhaps they are calibrated separately. My last truck had 1" bigger tires on the off-road model, but the speedometers for all models were just calibrated one way. The truck I had was non-off-road and whenever I passed the radar speed limit signs, it would be off 2-3 mph from my speedo. I later put tires on it which matched the off-road model and then the speedo was dead on with the radar signs. I never tried to check the odometer against anything. I just downloaded a GPS odometer app on my phone. It's supposed to be accurate to within 33 feet. I'm going to test it against that next time I drive somewhere with at least 10 miles. Anything less than that probably isn't a good sample size to me.

IIRC as tires wear and the diameter changes (gets smaller), technically, I believe they are off slightly, right?

 

[DivrGuy]

IIRC as tires wear and the diameter changes (gets smaller), technically, I believe they are off slightly, right?

You are correct. And if I wear these Duratracs down to the wear indicators, they will be about a 32" tire. Right now, I only have 1500 miles on them.

 

[19reb]

I use an app called Speed View. Pretty accurate app. The paid version is better.

Speed View on Google Play

 

[DivrGuy]

I use an app called Speed View. Pretty accurate app. The paid version is better.

Speed View on Google Play

The one I downloaded is GPS Odometer. It shows average speed over a trip, but doesn't show current speed.

I took a ride yesterday after I left the gym. I reset the trip odometer on the truck and on the gps app. All straight highway driving, other than a U-turn, then two turns into my neighborhood and driveway. As I pulled into my drive, the truck rolled to 19.0. The app showed 19.435. So a little closer than what I got by using mile markers. So about 2.25%.

 

[19reb]

Here's my calculations. Pretty ****ty to say the least and I have an appointment to have them look at it. I love this truck but cannot afford to drive it like this. It's like having two car payments at this rate. If they can't fix this, I'm gonna lemon law it. They ADVERTISE 15 at a minimum. Don't care what anyone says - THEY ADVERTISE 15 city, 17 comb and 21 highway. My window sticker is proof. At the very minimum, this is false advertising!

Nothing I do makes this number better and it's exactly 2 MPG less than the display reads. I've used every type of fuel known to man and I driven this thing like Grandma on a Sunday cruise. Nothing makes this number better! I'm done with it....

 

[ChadT]

they can't fix this, I'm gonna lemon law it. They ADVERTISE 15 at a minimum. Don't care what anyone says - THEY ADVERTISE 15 city, 17 comb and 21 highway. My window sticker is proof.

EPA's MPG thing is considered an estimate I thought? (In the legal sense, it's not considered an iron clad promise)
Every so so on the web this comes up, people want to lemon law a vehicle for lower MPG, the general consensus is - doesn't apply.
Lemon law works for multiple repairs for the same item.

11mpg though, I'd be mad too.
I was getting 13.5 for a while, I'm up to 15.5 now at 5,000mi - I drive it to hear the exhaust too, to be honest.

 

[19reb]

EPA's MPG thing is considered an estimate I thought? (In the legal sense, it's not considered an iron clad promise)
Every so so on the web this comes up, people want to lemon law a vehicle for lower MPG, the general consensus is - doesn't apply.
Lemon law works for multiple repairs for the same item.

11mpg though, I'd be mad too.
I was getting 13.5 for a while, I'm up to 15.5 now at 5,000mi - I drive it to hear the exhaust too, to be honest.

Estimate or not, they advertise 15, 17 and 21...

I don't think I'm gonna have a problem finding an attorney to sue FCA for false advertising. They better fix this and they better fix it quickly. I didn't pay $55k for a truck to get 11mpg. Especially coming from a Hellcat that I got 16 mpg in the city from...

 

[ChadT]

Estimate or not, they advertise 15, 17 and 21...

I don't think I'm gonna have a problem finding an attorney to sue FCA for false advertising. They better fix this and they better fix it quickly. I didn't pay $55k for a truck a get 11mpg. Especially coming from a Hellcat that I got 16 mpg in the city from...

Good luck and keep us posted.
If there is a mechanical issue, like a brake dragging or something like that? And they fix it? Man I'll be very happy for you and they should make it right.
But most people tend to get below EPA mpg estimates in real world driving.
Almost no one that drives a ford with an ecoboost in it gets that number.
Do they all have a lawsuit?

I think you're going to have a very difficult time with a lawsuit on that specific topic, because you're not the first person to get less than the EPA estimate MPG on their vehicle. Sure, a lawyer might take your money, but I have a hard time believing that the mountains required to move would occur (again, barring a mechanical issue that can be solved), or that a court would engage in essentially writing case law that would cost the auto-makers billions on a "I drive it like a grandma" claim that absolutely can't be proven in court whether it is true or not, and I beleive you.
and that would have to be proven over the defenses a legal team FCA could field.

Give this a read:
https://www.rd.com/culture/car-gas-mileage-lawsuit/

"On February 1, 2012, Superior Court Commissioner Douglas Carnahan 
issued his ruling in Peters’s favor, stating that Honda had committed fraud, though not intentionally. “Can a Honda hybrid driven in careful and tested ways achieve 50 mpg?” he asked. “No doubt. Did it happen with Peters’s car? No.” He awarded Peters $9,867 in damages, mostly for the extra money she’d spent on fuel and the decrease in the car’s value. Peters got so much press attention for the case that she renewed her law license, 
intending to give other Honda drivers legal advice.

That May, the carmaker appealed. After a three-day trial in superior court, with a team of lawyers representing Honda, Judge Dudley Gray II overruled the lower court, stating that Honda had complied with EPA and Federal Trade Commission requirements. He called Honda’s mileage claims 
“non-actionable sales puffery” and Peters’s claim of vehicle sluggishness “unsupported by any objective evidence.” He took away Peters’s damage reward and ordered Peters to pay Honda $75 to cover the costs of defending the case"

 

[Ellisstrong]

Here's my calculations. Pretty ****ty to say the least and I have an appointment to have them look at it. I love this truck but cannot afford to drive it like this. It's like having two car payments at this rate. If they can't fix this, I'm gonna lemon law it. They ADVERTISE 15 at a minimum. Don't care what anyone says - THEY ADVERTISE 15 city, 17 comb and 21 highway. My window sticker is proof. At the very minimum, this is false advertising!

Nothing I do makes this number better and it's exactly 2 MPG less than the display reads. I've used every type of fuel known to man and I driven this thing like Grandma on a Sunday cruise. Nothing makes this number better! I'm done with it....

Stop driving like a grandma and they get better gas mileage. Mine does at least.

 

[19reb]

Aw, man, I'm just mad and typing out loud . I know it would be pretty difficult to get anywhere with any type of law suit. 11 mpg is pretty disgusting, though, especially on a 19' and after they knew there were problems on previous years. Daimler somewhat listened to their customers, Fiat just flat out doesn't care it seems. Unless you're a movie star who lives in Hollywood! Not even when you buy their premium brand(SRT) or after buying(not leasing) $300k of their product over a 10 year span. I'm still Mopar or No Car, but, damn Fiat. You sure are making it tough!

I'm hoping they solve it. I really love this truck. It doesn't help there are other serious issues with the truck. Like the passenger door hitting the fender when you open the door or a very noticeable POP when you back out of your driveway the first time of the day. Won't mention the marbling sound this 5.7 makes when taking off. All this makes for a pretty crappy experience with what's supposed to be one of their top of the line, special edition Ram 1500 trucks. This truck hasn't even been off hard ball yet. Can't imagine what problems will occur when it does go off road and used the way it is intended to be use.

Hand calculate your mileage, fellas.

 

[RichT]

i'm fine with crappy mileage. just not cool with 20-25% less then advertised and the 'its a truck' justifiers are equally annoying.

go buy a commuter car, get 25% less mileage then advertised and see how you react.

 

[SacRebel]

I just hit the 3,000 mile mark and I’m still averaging 12 mpg lifetime.

 

[JohnUSA]

Here's my calculations. Pretty ****ty to say the least and I have an appointment to have them look at it. I love this truck but cannot afford to drive it like this. It's like having two car payments at this rate. If they can't fix this, I'm gonna lemon law it. They ADVERTISE 15 at a minimum. Don't care what anyone says - THEY ADVERTISE 15 city, 17 comb and 21 highway. My window sticker is proof. At the very minimum, this is false advertising!

Nothing I do makes this number better and it's exactly 2 MPG less than the display reads. I've used every type of fuel known to man and I driven this thing like Grandma on a Sunday cruise. Nothing makes this number better! I'm done with it....

I'm averaging around 16. Did a long highway drive and got 19. I've got about 2500 miles on it. When I first got it, I was getting about 10mpg... (insert empty wallet emoji here..ha ha). I don't want to be intentionally spreading an old wives tale, but...I read that this truck gets worse MPG on 87 octane. I changed to mid-grade. My mileage went up. Empirical evidence? No. But a little smoke coming out of the gun. Seems like it runs better on mid-grade, too.

 

[ortvk]

I'm averaging around 16. Did a long highway drive and got 19. I've got about 2500 miles on it. When I first got it, I was getting about 10mpg... (insert empty wallet emoji here..ha ha). I don't want to be intentionally spreading an old wives tale, but...I read that this truck gets worse MPG on 87 octane. I changed to mid-grade. My mileage went up. Empirical evidence? No. But a little smoke coming out of the gun. Seems like it runs better on mid-grade, too.

I run 87 and get between 15.5 and 16.7 mpg. Seems like its luck of the draw for everyone as far as good/decent mpg's go.

 

[HKP7PSP]

Stop driving like a grandma and they get better gas mileage. Mine does at least.

I've noticed this too! Accelerate to speed very lightly? Poor gas mileage. Get up to speed quickly and stay there? Much better!

Makes sense though. The instant fuel economy while accelerating is like 3-5 mpg. It's better to get it over with quickly, than to drag it out.

 

[19reb]

I'm averaging around 16. Did a long highway drive and got 19. I've got about 2500 miles on it. When I first got it, I was getting about 10mpg... (insert empty wallet emoji here..ha ha). I don't want to be intentionally spreading an old wives tale, but...I read that this truck gets worse MPG on 87 octane. I changed to mid-grade. My mileage went up. Empirical evidence? No. But a little smoke coming out of the gun. Seems like it runs better on mid-grade, too.

I noticed mine ran better on 89 also, but still had to baby it to get 13.9 according to the dash. I went by my local dealer today. They put me in a rental, so either they're stumped or there's something else wrong and they don't want to say. Didn't get much out of them before I was picked up by Enterprise. Enterprise gave me a 2019 ecoboost F150, eww! What a turd!

Hoping they can fix it. Everything I'm describing, too me, as a mechanic, says major issues. Marbling engine while taking off, trash gas mileage, and has a hellofa time staying at speed.

Did I mention the dealer flew someone to another state to drive my truck back to the dealer I bought it from?