Pros and Cons of e-tourque?

[Longhorn5G]

Etorque main focus is not mileage. Take away idle time, extend eco mode, push off stop and help push rpms to efficient lvl. Seamless start stop. Sure some savings in fuel. Time will tell. It is also to hype/pump the new model year and add manufacture points for cafe/epa.

It is to extend the life of the power train and truck around it. Takes work off brakes. Removes slipping of clutches on shifts. Removes drive train shock. To name a few. Again time will tell.
My impressions so far is I’m happy with the truck and lucky I haven’t run into issues at this time. I do feel extended eco even up upgrade of hills. Start stop is impressive. Shifts are not of notice. What I would say playful when driving still float around 17mpg combined highway and street.
If you feel uncomfortable about it then don’t get it.
As much as peeps, even I don’t want to hear it. Electric motion incorporated with Internal Combustion Engine is part of the quick future. Maybe time to jump on board. Unless hydrogen or another fuel alternative is to make a huge jump back in there is no other choice.
This does seem we are doing this over and over

Chevy said a day or two ago, they are dropping all hybrids. Focusing on full electric. I dont blame them. I regret the Audi hybrid we have.

 

[Drillerr]

I found this video interesting. 2019 RAM eTorque: 6 Things You Probably Didn't Know

 

[I_really_really_want_one!]

The video highlites the pros for the thing and they make it look so cool.

The cons as we've seen in this thread include "I don't like start-stop", "it doesn't actually save gas", "costs too much", "it might break", and even "it might explode" - and are all points worth considering.

As an owner now who actually thinks I paid less because it was an etorque and sorta like the fact that the engine shuts down at a stop light, my main worry is that it is going to wear out long before its time.

What other cars use their alternator as a starter? When I google for that about the best thing I find is this article from 2004: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272189

 

[Longhorn5G]

I really wish there was a way to data log everyones issues in this entire forum. Where when one states an issue in a new thread, a series of questions are answered so that all kinds of data can be entered to be able to establish real patterns.

As useful as forums can be, and ARE, there are just so many variables to keep track of.

For instance, one may write a thread that says thwir dash went berserk with lights and shut down. But they arent stating temps, humidity, build dates, miles at occurance, etorque or not, recent mods, etc.

What there temds to be is, one person states a problem. Even lists a lot of data. Another person then responds ajd says, not me. And another says, hey, me too! But it becomes a list of me toos, and not mes, without data.

While some things may on the face appear to be unrelated, weirder things have shown to be related in the history if analysis of virtually almost anything.

All our trucks are equipped just an option away from one another in combinations.

Its fun to problem solve. But it would be more helpful if every person in their sigs or something, just simply list a series of opti9ns ajd what not

 

[Longhorn5G]

Like the etorque. The article that was just posted, i read. I see how it powers all sorts of stuff electrical. Higher load things.

And i read about ppl ac failing, dash lights go nuts. Come back from vaca, battery dead. Etc. But we hardly know if these people have etorque, etc. Could they be related?? Possibly. They could end up as Cons on this list, if we had a better way to aggregate the data with complaints.

If you know what I mean.

 

[Smashy71]

Con, it cost too much. Lol

 

[cmdr bobert]

Like the etorque. The article that was just posted, i read. I see how it powers all sorts of stuff electrical. Higher load things.

And i read about ppl ac failing, dash lights go nuts. Come back from vaca, battery dead. Etc. But we hardly know if these people have etorque, etc. Could they be related?? Possibly. They could end up as Cons on this list, if we had a better way to aggregate the data with complaints.

If you know what I mean.

Here is my problem with what you’re saying. If you go to Ram’s website they very clearly define the purpose of the V8 etorque as a fuel saving technology first. They even have a gas saving calculator you can use on the website to calculate your fuel savings.

It even states a primary benefit as being “unsurpassed available V8 4x4 highway driving range”.

So it’s deceptive to advertise fuel saving as a primary benefit when it’s a $2645 upgrade over the base v6 and $1500 more than the non etorque V8.

 

[Longhorn5G]

Here is my problem with what you’re saying. If you go to Ram’s website they very clearly define the purpose of the V8 etorque as a fuel saving technology first. They even have a gas saving calculator you can use on the website to calculate your fuel savings.

It even states a primary benefit as being “unsurpassed available V8 4x4 highway driving range”.

So it’s deceptive to advertise fuel saving as a primary benefit when it’s a $2645 upgrade over the base v6 and $1500 more than the non etorque V8.

I dont understand... I am not defending ETorque in my post.

 

[V8Spock]

If you are buying off the lot, and the truck that has what you want has an etorque and is marked way down then it might be worth the roll of the dice.

The advice from I_really is solid. If you’re buying off the lot and the best offer includes eTorque, it’s a no brainer. I shopped 4 OTD prices, the eTorque truck was $4000 lower on a similar MSRP. Bam, done.

RAM says start/stop saves 1.7 oz fuel per 90 second stop. I live in the city so, I figure it’s got to be saving fuel for me.

Plus, there’s an off button. Push it and you’re in non-start/stop mode.

 

[Powerman1960]

Thanks for the posted video Drillerr.

 

[I_really_really_want_one!]

The problem with the thing, if you order and pay the premium, is you're unlikely to make your money back. Let's say a regular hemi gets you 17mpg. Over 100,000 miles @ $3 per gallon that comes out to $17,647. If the etwerk saves you 10% on your fuel bill that's only $1800, and you almost break even.

Sure, that saving doubles if you stretch that over 200,000 miles, but really one should only try to amortize over 80k miles because that's the duration of the etwerk warranty. After that you'll be paying out of pocket for fresh batteries or whatever it needs.

So no, on a custom order, it makes no sense to click the box. For me, buying off the lot, I've talked myself into believing that they, with all their discounts, are actually paying me to beta-test the thing.

And that's how etorque can save you money - when it's 2 or 3 grand cheaper than the regular hemi right off the bat.

 

[habu987]

Here is my problem with what you’re saying. If you go to Ram’s website they very clearly define the purpose of the V8 etorque as a fuel saving technology first. They even have a gas saving calculator you can use on the website to calculate your fuel savings.

It even states a primary benefit as being “unsurpassed available V8 4x4 highway driving range”.

So it’s deceptive to advertise fuel saving as a primary benefit when it’s a $2645 upgrade over the base v6 and $1500 more than the non etorque V8.

I don't follow.

How is it deceptive to advertise fuel saving? If they were advertising a lower total cost of ownership, then yeah, that could be an iffy claim depending on what time period and mileage they'd be using to make that claim, but the eTorque *officially* gets better mpg than the non-eTorque Hemi. It being a more expensive engine doesn't negate its fuel savings...

 

[SpeedyV]

The problem with the thing, if you order and pay the premium, is you're unlikely to make your money back. Let's say a regular hemi gets you 17mpg. Over 100,000 miles @ $3 per gallon that comes out to $17,647. If the etwerk saves you 10% on your fuel bill that's only $1800, and you almost break even.

Sure, that saving doubles if you stretch that over 200,000 miles, but really one should only try to amortize over 80k miles because that's the duration of the etwerk warranty. After that you'll be paying out of pocket for fresh batteries or whatever it needs.

So no, on a custom order, it makes no sense to click the box. For me, buying off the lot, I've talked myself into believing that they, with all their discounts, are actually paying me to beta-test the thing.

And that's how etorque can save you money - when it's 2 or 3 grand cheaper than the regular hemi right off the bat.

By the same argument, 90% of diesel buyers have been beta-testing for the past couple of decades.

 

[I_really_really_want_one!]

By the same argument, 90% of diesel buyers have been beta-testing for the past couple of decades.

Well, Ecodiesel owners for certain, those poor guys. But yes, all the diesel owners since the EPA went eco-terrorist on them. Diesel engines used to be bone simple, but not anymore.

The whole ED thing is the other reason why I didn't want to be a guinea pig for the ET, but here I am.

 

[slimchance]

The video highlites the pros for the thing and they make it look so cool.

The cons as we've seen in this thread include "I don't like start-stop", "it doesn't actually save gas", "costs too much", "it might break", and even "it might explode" - and are all points worth considering.

......

another con is "IT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK" ..... oh no, that is a pro .... we have 2 Rams with etorque, have had NO problems with either and we DO see the EPA combined mpg ... i think alot of the ney sayers do NOT have etorque and are playing on the hype

 

[Rototerrier]

Having put 2200 miles on my current E Torque, I still don't see or feel any benefit from it. And the claims that it's a seamless system is a little misleading as well. Like most start/stop systems, I also have an Audi that is horrible. The Start Up causes a delay and there's a shudder. With my Ram, they've managed to shift the shutter to the stop side. I actually get a little jolt / shutter when the engine stops. The start up is smooth. I suppose the Ram system is better since it doesn't affect things when I'm ready to get moving but I still don't like that I can feel it. That's the biggest issue with these systems, to me. If they could manage to make them completely smooth and seamless, then I'd probably be fine with them....but only if there was some measurable fuel savings to go along with it.

As far as fuel savings, my driving style doesn't really offer it any ability to save me anything. I mostly drive back roads and spend very little time stopped and therefor don't see where it can save me anything.

And the "braking" thing kinda sucks. It's kinda clunky and very inconsistent. I'll try to explain. Let's say I'm moving along at 70 and am going to come to a complete gradual stop. I apply mild pressure to the brake and start to slow down. The drag of the system varies as it slows down and does down shifts. If I don't let up on the brake at the start of the downshift, I now start to decelerate at a much higher rate. To keeps things steady and smooth, I have to constantly increase and decrease braking as the resistance increases and decreases. It's a moving target throughout the entire slow down. Riding as a passenger gives you the feeling that the driver is an idiot and doesn't know how to brake. As the driver, you are aware of the constant change to the resistance and are aware you are fighting to maintain smooth deceleration. It's a real mess and I'm not a big fan.

I've had every single update they've released and really can't tell much difference pre and post update. I believe this variation of drag through the slow down is just native to the system. It's not horrible, it's just not great and not smooth and given a choice, I'd prefer to not have it.

 

[SpeedyV]

Having put 2200 miles on my current E Torque, I still don't see or feel any benefit from it. And the claims that it's a seamless system is a little misleading as well. Like most start/stop systems, I also have an Audi that is horrible. The Start Up causes a delay and there's a shudder. With my Ram, they've managed to shift the shutter to the stop side. I actually get a little jolt / shutter when the engine stops. The start up is smooth.

I'm fortunate that I don't have any negative issues with the regenerative braking; it's like a light, smooth brake assist on my truck. That said, I observed a similar behavior to what you mentioned above with the stop/start. The start is awesome—smooth, fast, and generally better than traditional stop/start systems. But I too feel the "shudder" at times when the truck shuts off. It's inconsistent (i.e. sometimes non-existent, and sometimes very noticeable). And I have a theory about this...

I've noticed that in normal driving, where I'm cruising along in town and pull to a stop for a light, the truck downshifts until it reaches 3rd gear and hangs onto that gear until I'm stopped. I definitely feel a "bump" or "shudder" in these instances. But if I'm rolling along in 1st gear (e.g. at a drive-thru) and stop, the engine shuts off without any "shudder". I think what we're feeling is actually the combination of the engine stopping coupled with the transmission shifting down to 1st gear. Many members (myself included) have observed these revised 8-speeds "clunking" when coming to a stop on non-eTorque trucks, so it's no surprise that the behavior shows itself on an eTorque-equipped truck in a slightly different manner. If the transmission is the culprit, maybe a future programming update will address it.

 

[Electrical]

The problem with the thing, if you order and pay the premium, is you're unlikely to make your money back. Let's say a regular hemi gets you 17mpg. Over 100,000 miles @ $3 per gallon that comes out to $17,647. If the etwerk saves you 10% on your fuel bill that's only $1800, and you almost break even.

Sure, that saving doubles if you stretch that over 200,000 miles, but really one should only try to amortize over 80k miles because that's the duration of the etwerk warranty. After that you'll be paying out of pocket for fresh batteries or whatever it needs.

So no, on a custom order, it makes no sense to click the box. For me, buying off the lot, I've talked myself into believing that they, with all their discounts, are actually paying me to beta-test the thing.

And that's how etorque can save you money - when it's 2 or 3 grand cheaper than the regular hemi right off the bat.

You seem to be making definitive statements based on a limited and biased perspective. etwerk? We know where you stand.

What if you buy it for longer range and more time between fillups?

What if eTorque resale is higher?

Etc etc.

And these pseudo-ROI calculations are just plain silly. The whole truck is a depreciating asset and nothing in it, eTorque or otherwise, will "make your money back".

 

[Gman]

When I wanted a new truck, trying to find my mix of wanted features ended up with finding a truck that had eTorque. Now that I've had it for several months, I really like it.

If the regular Hemi is rated for 21 MPG highway, and eTorque doesn't help highway mileage, then how do you explain this from my little 125 mile trip to Colorado Springs and back;


The 'Con' would be the cost.

 

[I_really_really_want_one!]

I go back and forth on the etorque in my driving and in my posts here on a daily basis.

Reading about the braking variance, I have noticed it, and tell myself its saving me money by scavenging kinetic energy.

One way I rationalized getting it in the first place it was that it actually might be a much more maintainable fuel saving device compared with say turbo charging.

A pro then might be that device can be serviced without having to pull the motor. In most cases I bet it will simply be a matter of a battery and/or generator swap and be done in an hour or so.