Orange peel paint

[cevans6318]

Then you've never done a show car quality paint job. I have, 80+ hours easy just in paint. Show quality paint starts before paint comes from the gun and continues with wet sanding with 1500-5000 grit sandpaper after each coat of paint then the same with each layer of clear to achieve a true flat as glass finish. The there's the buffing out of that paint and minor corrections.

A show car quality paint job can easily cost 10K+ but here's the thing, are you going to maintain it or is it going to look show quality for a week?
These vehicles will have rock chips and off road paint damage on them within months and the general populous certainly doesn't have the skill or desire to maintain them, how many vehicles do you think run through an auto carwash? What's an auto carwash to to paint, and you want show quality for that?

My Diamond Black looks good, could it look better? Yes. Do I expect better from the OEM? No.
I can wet sand my truck and may well do that in a few years and slick the paint then bring it back out, I have the tools, knowledge and the compounds for that but I think most peoples expectations of OEM paint are very unrealistic especially when you consider the fact the most cars are probably run through an auto car wash which will destroy any paint job.

Unless you're willing to wash the vehicle at home using the 2 or 3 bucket method, having show quality paint wont make a difference as it wont look show quality long

The point I am trying to make is when we’re paying upwards of $40,000 plus for a car, most would expect the paint to be perfect. Same goes with everything else on the vehicle. You don’t dump $50,000 for a car and get some crap paint job that looks like it was done in a backyard body shop. As I said before nowadays it’s more about quantity than it is quality. I work for Mercedes-Benz and had the opportunity to go on a tour of the Alabama factory and they have the ability to make these cars near perfect with the technology they have. It’s just now it’s all about quantity versus quality. I think most of us in here can agree the quality of our trucks is not what you would expect from a $50,000 vehicle. When I bought my 2002 Honda Civic back in 2002 it was better quality than these trucks and I paid less than half of the price.

 

[mikeru82]

The point I am trying to make is when we’re paying upwards of $40,000 plus for a car, most would expect the paint to be perfect. Same goes with everything else on the vehicle. You don’t dump $50,000 for a car and get some crap paint job that looks like it was done in a backyard body shop. As I said before nowadays it’s more about quantity than it is quality. I work for Mercedes-Benz and had the opportunity to go on a tour of the Alabama factory and they have the ability to make these cars near perfect with the technology they have. It’s just now it’s all about quantity versus quality. I think most of us in here can agree the quality of our trucks is not what you would expect from a $50,000 vehicle. When I bought my 2002 Honda Civic back in 2002 it was better quality than these trucks and I paid less than half of the price.

I don't know why you feel that someone who pays $50k for a truck should have better quality than someone who pays $40k, especially when they are built side by side on the same line in the same factory. I paid $75k for my truck. I didn't expect the paint on my truck to look any better than the paint on a totally base level $33k 2WD Tradesman. I agree with you that they could be better. Look at other brands of mass produced cars. It is what it is. You have the choice of which car or truck to buy and who to buy it from. You'd probably be better off selling your truck and buying something else.

 

[cevans6318]

I don't know why you feel that someone who pays $50k for a truck should have better quality than someone who pays $40k, especially when they are built side by side on the same line in the same factory. I paid $75k for my truck. I didn't expect the paint on my truck to look any better than the paint on a totally base level $33k 2WD Tradesman. I agree with you that they could be better. Look at other brands of mass produced cars. It is what it is. You have the choice of which car or truck to buy and who to buy it from. You'd probably be better off selling your truck and buying something else.

I never said somebody that pays 50 grand for the truck should have a better paint job than somebody that paid 40 grand. I’m saying anybody that pays $40,000 for a truck period Should have a quality paint job. Me personally I have no problems with my paint I’m talking about everyone else that feels their paint is not up to par. I’m overall satisfied with my truck minus a few issues which I don’t understand why it’s like that but other than that I don’t have any issues. Just what I’ve seen over the years and from working at a dealership for the past 16 years I’ve seen the quality go down yet the prices continue to go up

 

[mikeru82]

I never said somebody that pays 50 grand for the truck should have a better paint job than somebody that paid 40 grand. I’m saying anybody that pays $40,000 for a truck period Should have a quality paint job. Me personally I have no problems with my paint I’m talking about everyone else that feels their paint is not up to par. I’m overall satisfied with my truck minus a few issues which I don’t understand why it’s like that but other than that I don’t have any issues. Just what I’ve seen over the years and from working at a dealership for the past 16 years I’ve seen the quality go down yet the prices continue to go up

Right, my bad. I misread what you posted. Although I still don't see why you're using $40k as an example. I would expect to have a quality finish no matter how much I spend on a new car. Unfortunately expectations and reality don't always meet up.

 

[OldMarine]

I think most of us in here can agree the quality of our trucks is not what you would expect from a $50,000 vehicle.

...guess I'm one of the few then...my 19 Limited has been flawless, now with 31K miles. I couldn't be happier with it!

 

[Jako]

...guess I'm one of the few then...my 19 Limited has been flawless, now with 31K miles. I couldn't be happier with it!

No issues at all? Happy to hear. I'm happy with my 2019 Ram Bighorn but the 8.4 Nav, battery, MDS (2 tries and they got it right) and now a fogging turn signal. Not complaining just working out the kinks. $800 for the Nav pushes me a little to the PO area.

 

[cevans6318]

...guess I'm one of the few then...my 19 Limited has been flawless, now with 31K miles. I couldn't be happier with it!

Don't get me wrong, I love the truck. Have only had it 2 months now, no issues, but the gaps of the body panels are not great. Both my rear doors at the top of far too much in and not even with the body. Front to back door on driver side has a larger gap then passenger side. Tailgate sticks out on driver side. Minor stuff but still not great quality you would expect from a $40K truck. The panel fitment seems to be a common issue.

Right, my bad. I misread what you posted. Although I still don't see why you're using $40k as an example. I would expect to have a quality finish no matter how much I spend on a new car. Unfortunately expectations and reality don't always meet up.

I agree, I would expect any car, no matter the price to have quality finish. I just used the $40K as an example as these trucks start around there.

 

[jdmartin]

I don't think its unreasonable at all to expect show car paint jobs when they have the technology at the factory to make it happen. Plus for the price we are paying, I expect better and so does everyone else.

Then your expectations are unreasonable given reality, and you must have trouble living on the Earth

I don't care how long you've been working at the Mercedes dealership, if you don't remember cars from the 60s, 70s and 80s you have no reasonable point of reference. A great paint job takes a ****-ton of work; no assembly line is going to cut, sand, buff, and respray to get what you think should be standard MO on a mass-produced vehicle, especially on a truck. Have you ever had a show car paint job? Getting one is a *****. Every single new vehicle I have ever owned has had a less than show car paint job. Some were better than others but none were perfect.

Every car on the road today has a paint product that as a whole is a worse product than those being used even 20 years ago, much less 40 or 50 years ago. The paints have more flexibility - they have to, in order to withstand the movement of thinner body panels - and better UV inhibitors but are applied far thinner and have less solids, lack the volatile compounds that helped prevent the quick flashing that creates orange peel in the first place, and never harden like the old acrylic enamels. In short, the paints today suck in terms of lasting ability compared to paints 40 years ago, but they are better in other ways (weight, environmental issues, health issues).

In any case, I don't know why you think $40k is a lot of money for a vehicle. The average new car in 1960, in inflation adjusted dollars, would cost $25,000 today. This was a vehicle with virtually power nothing, no safety features, no electronics, anemic engine performance, shoddy fuel economy, a body that would rust in 5-10 years and a vehicle that would be ready for the graveyard by 100k miles. You can pick *any* new car on the market today for $25k and you'd find a crazy raft of safety, amazing fuel economy, bodies that can make it 20 years without rust out, features out the yin-yang and a vehicle that you can probably drive to 200k miles without any major repairs. Yeah, some things are not as good, but everything else is light-years better for comparable or less cost.

You're living in the golden age of automotive. You remind me of a guy on my ship in the Navy. This guy would find a $10 bill on the ground and ***** that it wasn't a $20

 

[SD Rebel]

Wondering if anyone else gas noticed this. I bought a 2021 Bighorn with Delmonico Red paint off the showroom floor. If I look at the paint in the sun it looks rippled (orange peel texture). I’m used to my other vehicles which have glass like paint jobs. Is this an issue with other folks? I’m surmising it’s more obvious on darker colors.

What cars did you have that had glass like paint jobs? I've owned everything from Fords, Acuras, BMWs, Mercedes, Jeeps and Porsches, and they all had somewhat similar levels of orange peel, though some colors and body angles will show it more. Though Ford's level of orange peel is probably higher than most, this coming from a life long Ford owner.

My RAM is probably middle of the road, not as bad as my Expedition by not as good as my Acura. But unless you get it professional cut/wet sanded and buffed, you really can't get a flat finish on any factory cars. Even $350,000 Ferraris & Lambos have typical levels of orange peel, for the simple reason in that they cannot spend several hours per car with a 2-4 man detail team wet sanding them on a production line.

Though I suspect with the current production constraints going on right now in the industry, you could simply have lower quality paint job from the factory. Depending on how much clear you have, it can probably be fixed.

 

[cevans6318]

Then your expectations are unreasonable given reality, and you must have trouble living on the Earth

I don't care how long you've been working at the Mercedes dealership, if you don't remember cars from the 60s, 70s and 80s you have no reasonable point of reference. A great paint job takes a ****-ton of work; no assembly line is going to cut, sand, buff, and respray to get what you think should be standard MO on a mass-produced vehicle, especially on a truck. Have you ever had a show car paint job? Getting one is a *****. Every single new vehicle I have ever owned has had a less than show car paint job. Some were better than others but none were perfect.

Every car on the road today has a paint product that as a whole is a worse product than those being used even 20 years ago, much less 40 or 50 years ago. The paints have more flexibility - they have to, in order to withstand the movement of thinner body panels - and better UV inhibitors but are applied far thinner and have less solids, lack the volatile compounds that helped prevent the quick flashing that creates orange peel in the first place, and never harden like the old acrylic enamels. In short, the paints today suck in terms of lasting ability compared to paints 40 years ago, but they are better in other ways (weight, environmental issues, health issues).

In any case, I don't know why you think $40k is a lot of money for a vehicle. The average new car in 1960, in inflation adjusted dollars, would cost $25,000 today. This was a vehicle with virtually power nothing, no safety features, no electronics, anemic engine performance, shoddy fuel economy, a body that would rust in 5-10 years and a vehicle that would be ready for the graveyard by 100k miles. You can pick *any* new car on the market today for $25k and you'd find a crazy raft of safety, amazing fuel economy, bodies that can make it 20 years without rust out, features out the yin-yang and a vehicle that you can probably drive to 200k miles without any major repairs. Yeah, some things are not as good, but everything else is light-years better for comparable or less cost.

You're living in the golden age of automotive. You remind me of a guy on my ship in the Navy. This guy would find a $10 bill on the ground and ***** that it wasn't a $20

Go take a tour of any automotive factory, the technology is there for manufactures to produce quality vehicles, that includes vehicles with a perfect paint job. OK saying show quality, yes I agree is going a little bit too far but a paint job without any imperfections is not far-fetched. The problem with vehicles today is, nobody cares about quality. Its all about quantity. And manufactures cutting corners for profit. And how the f**k are you going to say $40k is not alot for a brand new truck? Of course it is. Just because you may be loaded doesn't mean the next person is. Yes we are paying for inflation but the quality isn't there. Ask most people out there, they will tell you they would never buy a new vehicle because of the price and the quality. And cars today, with the advanced technology, have 10x more issues then cars 10 yrs ago. Why do you think everybody is in a rush to purchase an extended warranty? Why do you think half the people in this group won't keep there truck past the basic warranty period? Its because of the issues these trucks have and have faced the past several yrs with no resolution. Going 200K miles without any issues with todays produced vehicles is being way out of touch with reality. Most people today lease there vehicles because of the cost to own them and the cost to maintain them.

 

[jdmartin]

Go take a tour of any automotive factory, the technology is there for manufactures to produce quality vehicles, that includes vehicles with a perfect paint job. OK saying show quality, yes I agree is going a little bit too far but a paint job without any imperfections is not far-fetched. The problem with vehicles today is, nobody cares about quality. Its all about quantity. And manufactures cutting corners for profit. And how the f**k are you going to say $40k is not alot for a brand new truck? Of course it is. Just because you may be loaded doesn't mean the next person is. Yes we are paying for inflation but the quality isn't there. Ask most people out there, they will tell you they would never buy a new vehicle because of the price and the quality. And cars today, with the advanced technology, have 10x more issues then cars 10 yrs ago. Why do you think everybody is in a rush to purchase an extended warranty? Why do you think half the people in this group won't keep there truck past the basic warranty period? Its because of the issues these trucks have and have faced the past several yrs with no resolution. Going 200K miles without any issues with todays produced vehicles is being way out of touch with reality. Most people today lease there vehicles because of the cost to own them and the cost to maintain them.

If you believe what you wrote, and you are still buying new vehicles, then why are you buying new vehicles? When I am not driving my truck, I tool around in a Kia Soul I bought new that has never been back to the dealer for anything and is at almost 200k miles. They gave me a 10 yr 100k warranty from the factory when I bought it, and the warranty never got used.

Go to any group that collects data on vehicle repairs and reliability - Consumer Reports, JD Power, NHTSA, and you will find that vehicle reliability has steadily increased and problems have steadily decreased over the last 40 years.

As for your most people won't buy a new car because of problems? Most people can't buy a new car because they're broke as a joke. They don't lease cars because of problems; they lease them because that's all the payment they can afford OR they want to be driving the latest car every 3 years. My father spent his whole life in the car sales business and if loans weren't given to broke-*** people, there would have been hardly any cars sold anytime, anywhere.

 

[BowDown]

The point I am trying to make is when we’re paying upwards of $40,000 plus for a car, most would expect the paint to be perfect. Same goes with everything else on the vehicle. You don’t dump $50,000 for a car and get some crap paint job that looks like it was done in a backyard body shop. As I said before nowadays it’s more about quantity than it is quality. I work for Mercedes-Benz and had the opportunity to go on a tour of the Alabama factory and they have the ability to make these cars near perfect with the technology they have. It’s just now it’s all about quantity versus quality. I think most of us in here can agree the quality of our trucks is not what you would expect from a $50,000 vehicle. When I bought my 2002 Honda Civic back in 2002 it was better quality than these trucks and I paid less than half of the price.

No.
Its all about time. and price really has no impact on it but for grins, take your 50K number. As I said, a show car type paint job will be in excess of 10K and on a mass produced vehicle like this where doing so would seriously slow down the line, you'd be paying closer to 70k for this same 50K vehicle so the question is do you or would you pay an additional 10-15K for a better paint job?

MB is not producing near the number of vehicles that RAM is and the ones with nice paint aint 50K. As I said, I painted cars for nearly 10 years and the difference in paint was proportional to the type of vehicle more often than not. High end cars tended to have better paint jobs but not always. My wife had a honda accord and I can tell you without doubt that the paint on it was not better than the paint on my current truck or the ram I had at the time.

There are many variables in getting paint to lay down smooth, temperature dictates how fast or slow a reducer you use. Humidity, same as temp and despite what you may think, temp and humidity are not as tightly controlled in an assembly plant as much as they would be in a backyard shop or a paint shop. Time involved, simply put, manufacturers make too many vehicles a day to be able to spend the considerable amount of time it takes to produce paint jobs of the quality you're asking for.

An assembly line paints a vehicle and is usually assembling it the same day, adding in this type of paint job would add 5-7 days to the process and this is assuming that you had a team of workers, not one or two.

No, the paint job on my truck is exactly what I expected for a 65K truck, would I like show quality paint on it? Hell Yes. Will I pay the premium that I know it would cost for a show quality paint job? F no