Oil!!!!

[HoosierTrooper]

Why would redline HP not meet API & other requirements if it does indeed have more and better additives.. wouldnt that make sense?

Because the API has limits on phosphorus and ZDDP ( zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) because levels that are too high have been shown to damage catalytic converters. Redlines HP has levels well above the API limits on both so they cannot get the API certification. The Professional series has much lower levels so they have passed the API tests. More is not always better, moly is a good example because there are a few different types available. Infineum is an additive company that is co-owned by Mobil and Shell and they use a tri-nuclear type of moly in their ad packs and have found that concentrations of 70-100 ppm are all that is necessary for adequate protection. ZDDP and phosporous are the primary anti wear agents in oil, the other additives like moly, boron and titanium are added as supplements to work with them.

Redline doesn't use "better" additives just higher levels. Whoever they buy the ad pack from, Infineum, Lubrizol, Chevron or one of the few others sell the same additives to the blenders at whatever level they request.

If you have trouble sleeping here's API 1509 which covers everything. I've read every word...

https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/150918thedition-06282019.pdf

 

[Nickjansen]

Because the API has limits on phosphorus and ZDDP ( zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) because levels that are too high have been shown to damage catalytic converters. Redlines HP has levels well above the API limits on both so they cannot get the API certification. The Professional series has much lower levels so they have passed the API tests. More is not always better, moly is a good example because there are a few different types available. Infineum is an additive company that is co-owned by Mobil and Shell and they use a tri-nuclear type of moly in their ad packs and have found that concentrations of 70-100 ppm are all that is necessary for adequate protection. ZDDP and phosporous are the primary anti wear agents in oil, the other additives like moly, boron and titanium are added as supplements to work with them.

Redline doesn't use "better" additives just higher levels. Whoever they buy the ad pack from, Infineum, Lubrizol, Chevron or one of the few others sell the same additives to the blenders at whatever level they request.

If you have trouble sleeping here's API 1509 which covers everything. I've read every word...

https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/150918thedition-06282019.pdf

Thanks for the explanation. I guess the catalytic converter failure would definitely not make the manufacturers happy to put a pass on because this is usually the longest warrantied item in a vehicle of all manufacturers. Usually 8 years compared to 5 like powertrain

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Thanks for the explanation. I guess the catalytic converter failure would definitely not make the manufacturers happy to put a pass on because this is usually the longest warrantied item in a vehicle of all manufacturers. Usually 8 years compared to 5 like powertrain

Exactly. If you scroll to page 132 of the API 1509 it shows the limits on phosphorus and sulfur, which is an element in ZDDP.

 

[PowerJrod]

Thanks for the explanation. I guess the catalytic converter failure would definitely not make the manufacturers happy to put a pass on because this is usually the longest warrantied item in a vehicle of all manufacturers. Usually 8 years compared to 5 like powertrain

Isn't the warranty on the catalytic converter the same as the power train warranty...? I thought it was anyway...

 

[Nickjansen]

Isn't the warranty on the catalytic converter the same as the power train warranty...? I thought it was anyway...

No it is part of the emissions control warranty

 

[PowerJrod]

No it is part of the emissions control warranty

Although I completely believe you....nothing about it is mentioned in the Mopar Warranty info. Why is that?

 

[Nickjansen]

Although I completely believe you....nothing about it is mentioned in the Mopar Warranty info. Why is that?

Not sure where you are looking. But I am a Finance Manager inside a dealership and my job day in and day out is to know and sell these warranties and know all manufacturers as such. There is a possibility that a couple brands this does not hold true for (of which I do not know) but my experience is that catalytic converters are part of the Emissions Control Systems Warranty and here in Canada it is 99% always for 8 years or 160000km's. Also a lot of times even though it is not listed in a source of warranty coverage information.. it is unless it says it is not in the exclusions list. But Im sure you will double check for me

 

[Grape_Ape]

Imagine dismissing information because it doesn't fit in line with your beliefs and anecdotal evidence.

For those that don't know the definition of anecdotal - (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research

I'm gonna trust a lab doing scientific research on wear amounts over a bunch of keyboard warriors. Just goes back to what I and others have been saying. Use a quality oil and you will probably be fine for the life of your vehicle. If you do develop a tick and want to pursue an oil like Redline then that's perfectly fine.

@PowerJrod keep using Mobil1. I know there's some viewpoints on it that say not to use it in our truck because it's not "Mopar Certified" anymore but it's a proven oil with a long track record. After my free dealership oil change I plan on checking out PUP. I've never used it before but it seems to be pretty good.

 

[PowerJrod]

Imagine dismissing information because it doesn't fit in line with your beliefs and anecdotal evidence.

For those that don't know the definition of anecdotal - (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research

I'm gonna trust a lab doing scientific research on wear amounts over a bunch of keyboard warriors. Just goes back to what I and others have been saying. Use a quality oil and you will probably be fine for the life of your vehicle. If you do develop a tick and want to pursue an oil like Redline then that's perfectly fine.

@PowerJrod keep using Mobil1. I know there's some viewpoints on it that say not to use it in our truck because it's not "Mopar Certified" anymore but it's a proven oil with a long track record. After my free dealership oil change I plan on checking out PUP. I've never used it before but it seems to be pretty good.

Well said man. My last oil changed I used Pennzoil Platinum (first time using the stuff), it's been fine so far but I've always been a Mobile 1 guy...used it in my Charger R/T for years without any issue. This is the first I've heard of anyone saying to not use it in a vehicle though...

 

[PowerJrod]

Not sure where you are looking. But I am a Finance Manager inside a dealership and my job day in and day out is to know and sell these warranties and know all manufacturers as such. There is a possibility that a couple brands this does not hold true for (of which I do not know) but my experience is that catalytic converters are part of the Emissions Control Systems Warranty and here in Canada it is 99% always for 8 years or 160000km's. Also a lot of times even though it is not listed in a source of warranty coverage information.. it is unless it says it is not in the exclusions list. But Im sure you will double check for me

Never heard of it ...I'm a dumbass. I looked it up and it is the same here in the US. The warranty covers Cat converter, ECU and OBD for 8 years/80k miles. But I found out why its not mentioned in the Mopar Warranty...because the emissions warranty is a Federally mandated warranty set also by the EPA. So Mopar would never be able to deny a warranty claim on either those 3 parts unless they were modified or neglected. Interesting lol.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

I've attached the MS-6395 test requirements below. It's from 2013 which would've been during API SN and the tests Chrysler required are straight from the API SN tests, but they also did require a two year fleet test of 100,000 miles using Chrysler vehicles. I would assume Chrysler updated the tests whenever API SN+ and SP went into effect but kept the fleet test. Only the insiders at both companies know why Mobil has not submitted their Mobil 1 line to Chrysler in order to display the MS-6395 certification. Maybe Mobil has chosen not too since they lost the factory fill and dealership service contract when Fiat came on board with Chrysler and replaced them with Pennzoil, which had to be a pretty large financial hit to Exxon-Mobil. Maybe Pennzoil won't allow it because keeping MS-6395 off of the M1 products cuts down on the competition, which would be a very good move from a business standpoint for Pennzoil. The MS-6395 standard isn't specific to the Hemi, it covers virtually ever gasoline engine FCA uses except for the specialty engines like the SRT and 2.0L turbo in my Jeep which have their own material standard.

Obviously M1 would pass the MS-6395 tests easily but for me personally I don't think it's worth the risk to use it, at least while under warranty. The MS-6395 API SN+ or SP spec oils made by SOPUS, Valvoline, Castrol and others will work just as well as M1, and since FCA has a reputation for fighting warranty claims, which may or may not be true, I can't see giving FCA an out in the event of an oil related engine problem, as remote as it actually is, when it's so easy to choose a product that meets MS-6395.

http://www.kmn-lubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20135408_342_ChryslerMS6395-Supreme-05-03-13.pdf

 

[PowerJrod]

I've attached the MS-6395 test requirements below. It's from 2013 which would've been during API SN and the tests Chrysler required are straight from the API SN tests, but they also did require a two year fleet test of 100,000 miles using Chrysler vehicles. I would assume Chrysler updated the tests whenever API SN+ and SP went into effect but kept the fleet test. Only the insiders at both companies know why Mobil has not submitted their Mobil 1 line to Chrysler in order to display the MS-6395 certification. Maybe Mobil has chosen not too since they lost the factory fill and dealership service contract when Fiat came on board with Chrysler and replaced them with Pennzoil, which had to be a pretty large financial hit to Exxon-Mobil. Maybe Pennzoil won't allow it because keeping MS-6395 off of the M1 products cuts down on the competition, which would be a very good move from a business standpoint for Pennzoil. The MS-6395 standard isn't specific to the Hemi, it covers virtually ever gasoline engine FCA uses except for the specialty engines like the SRT and 2.0L turbo in my Jeep which have their own material standard.

Obviously M1 would pass the MS-6395 tests easily but for me personally I don't think it's worth the risk to use it, at least while under warranty. The MS-6395 API SN+ or SP spec oils made by SOPUS, Valvoline, Castrol and others will work just as well as M1, and since FCA has a reputation for fighting warranty claims, which may or may not be true, I can't see giving FCA an out in the event of an oil related engine problem, as remote as it actually is, when it's so easy to choose a product that meets MS-6395.

http://www.kmn-lubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20135408_342_ChryslerMS6395-Supreme-05-03-13.pdf

Hmm that's a good point...wonder if I should just stick with the Pennzoil Platinum that I have in the truck now...I just wouldn't bother paying extra for the ultra platinum.

 

[Aseras]

No one here said anything about knowing more than the engineers, maybe you should read the entire discussion first and the reason for the discussion. Thanks.

Oh we've had some discussions where you KNOW the engineers were told to do X to save money or to meet a budget or environmental mandate. Almost everything I have had issues with on my trucvk are because someone told an engineer to meet a benchmark and to hell with the real world, reliability or functionality.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Hmm that's a good point...wonder if I should just stick with the Pennzoil Platinum that I have in the truck now...I just wouldn't bother paying extra for the ultra platinum.

It's just something FCA vehicle owners have to decide for themselves, and yeah I agree with you on the Ultra. The fact that it doesn't carry GM's tougher than API Dexos 1 certification is enough to tell me it's not worth the extra money, while the Platinum does. It's very strange that Pennzoil wouldn't get their "flagship" product that certification so it can be used in GM vehicles under warranty.

 

[PowerJrod]

Oh we've had some discussions where you KNOW the engineers were told to do X to save money or to meet a budget or environmental mandate. Almost everything I have had issues with on my trucvk are because someone told an engineer to meet a benchmark and to hell with the real world, reliability or functionality.

True but that went without saying lol. That's why in my original post I mentioned the 0W16 oil that my lady's new Rav4 takes...smh.