Lithium Battery Upgrade

[sppb32]

You tested that on these "smart" alternators that don't put out current until they feel like it?

Yes, it's been running for a few month without problems, it's just a battery.

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

 

[jimothy]

Yes and then some. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...ty-lithium-battery.104268/page-6#post-2429472
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-h7-rs/

It also can sit for YEARS without a load and won't die. No such thing as sulfation.

They are nuts. I got the 60ah, as it is more usable capacity than stock, it was $400 cheaper than the H8 or the 80ah and it was on sale at wedontlift https://www.wdlracing.com/products/antigravity-h7-group-94r-car-battery?variant=31469237370995 . On top of that they gave me a ton a swag, a bluetooth battery tracker, and 2 lithium LED bluetooth flashlight speaker things that are awesome for free. I can't guarantee that will happen now post pandemic, but they beat everyone else by a few hundred buck when I bought mine.

H7-40-RS​

40 Amp Hours​

1500 Cranking Amps
15.6 lbs

H7-60-RS​

60 Amp Hours​

1800 Cranking Amps
18.5 lbs

H7-80-RS​

80 Amp Hours​

~2000 Cranking Amps
25.5 lbs

Thanks for the info. Did you have to deal with any of the issues mentioned in the Mustang forum (PCM, smart charging, etc.)? Or were you able to basically just drop in the replacement battery?

 

[Aseras]

Thanks for the info. Did you have to deal with any of the issues mentioned in the Mustang forum (PCM, smart charging, etc.)? Or were you able to basically just drop in the replacement battery?

Mostly drop in. I did use alphaodb to set the capacity. The battery has its own BMS and it's made to be a 100% drop in. The problem lies with the trucks BMS assuming the battery is a lead acid and *not* charging it accordingly. Because lithium maintains volatge and doesn't drop or have float voltage the BMS system won't charge it properly unless you bump up the minimum voltages and amps. The battery will be "undercharged" at about 60-70% of capacity. Which is good for long term battery health, but bad if you need the capacity. I've got mine settled at keeping it around 88-92% via the battery tracker.

 

[sscheibel]

Mostly drop in. I did use alphaodb to set the capacity. The battery has its own BMS and it's made to be a 100% drop in. The problem lies with the trucks BMS assuming the battery is a lead acid and *not* charging it accordingly. Because lithium maintains volatge and doesn't drop or have float voltage the BMS system won't charge it properly unless you bump up the minimum voltages and amps. The battery will be "undercharged" at about 60-70% of capacity. Which is good for long term battery health, but bad if you need the capacity. I've got mine settled at keeping it around 88-92% via the battery tracker.

Would you mind sharing what setting you changed to better maintain the full charge on you lithium battery?

 

[jimothy]

@Aseras

Mostly drop in. I did use alphaodb to set the capacity. The battery has its own BMS and it's made to be a 100% drop in. The problem lies with the trucks BMS assuming the battery is a lead acid and *not* charging it accordingly. Because lithium maintains volatge and doesn't drop or have float voltage the BMS system won't charge it properly unless you bump up the minimum voltages and amps. The battery will be "undercharged" at about 60-70% of capacity. Which is good for long term battery health, but bad if you need the capacity. I've got mine settled at keeping it around 88-92% via the battery tracker.

Hopefully you’re still around on these forums.

Do you happen to know the names and values of the settings you changed (in AlfaOBD, I assume)? I’m about to do a lithium upgrade myself.

 

[jimothy]

Posted in another thread, but I installed a Dakota Lithium 135Ah battery this weekend. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend you follow my lead: this is a Group 24 size battery, not H7 or H8, so it requires extending the battery wires to reach the terminals.

So far, so good. I’ve tweaked some IBS parameters and will be doing some more tests, and report back here.

 

[Ready Go]

I installed this Antigravity Battery in my wife's 2017 ND Miata Club in 2018 without any issues whatsoever!
I did have to buy a new Battery Tender Trickle-charger that is switchable from Lead Acid/AGM to Lithium/LiFePO4 for winter storage in my heated spare garage.
In 2022, I added a window circuit module into the driver's side door that allowed the key fob remote to either raise or lower both door windows remotely...but later realized it kept the circuit open 24/7 and therefore "killed" the battery three times in a row over three weeks until I realized the module was the issue and removed it. Each time I used the BT to slow charge up the battery overnight and two years later (without the window module) it's still working perfectly.
**My reason for the Li battery was that it cut about 25+ lbs from the Lead battery that was OEM**

 

[ayoslickxd]

Posted in another thread, but I installed a Dakota Lithium 135Ah battery this weekend. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend you follow my lead: this is a Group 24 size battery, not H7 or H8, so it requires extending the battery wires to reach the terminals.

So far, so good. I’ve tweaked some IBS parameters and will be doing some more tests, and report back here.

View attachment 181102
View attachment 181103

so why did you change from h8 battery to this dakota battery ? im interested to learn a few things. lol

 

[jimothy]

so why did you change from h8 battery to this dakota battery ? im interested to learn a few things. lol

I have a few more details on the What did you do to your Ram today? thread. Basically, the Dakota Lithium batter has these three advantages:

1. 70-125% higher capacity (135Ah), compared to 60-80 Ah in the Antigravity
2. Self-heating, for charging below freezing.
3. Slightly lower price, but significantly lower on a per amp-hour basis.

This doesn't have the self-jump start feature of the AG, but really, that just cuts off discharging when there's 20% battery left, which further amplifies the difference in capacity. Plus, I already have a super capacitor based jump starter I carry in my truck.

Would I recommend installing the the DL battery in your truck? Definitely not if you're not comfortable cutting and splicing battery wires to reach the terminals. Heck, I wasn't comfortable doing that, but I did it anyway!

Would I recommend installing a lithium starter battery in general? Ask me again in a year. You can find YouTube videos telling you lithium under the hood is a terrible idea, and others saying they've had no problem with it.

Since I love me some confirmation bias, I let this guy from Australian, who uses his SUV in far tougher conditions than I use my truck, convince me I'll be okay. But it's easy to find other videos, including other Aussies, saying they went back to lead acid.

As I mention in the other thread, my biggest concerns are charging current/speed, and heat. I'm not worried about damaging my alternator (a warning you'll hear about lithium batteries), since I don't have an alternator; I've got eTorque, and based on what I know, its DC-DC charger should have no issue with a lithium battery.

Whether the lithium battery has an issue with the charger goes back to the question of charging current. I'll be keeping an eye on that. You don't have to wait a year to ask me about that; remind me in a month if I don't post results here.

 

[ayoslickxd]

I have a few more details on the What did you do to your Ram today? thread. Basically, the Dakota Lithium batter has these three advantages:

1. 70-125% higher capacity (135Ah), compared to 60-80 Ah in the Antigravity
2. Self-heating, for charging below freezing.
3. Slightly lower price, but significantly lower on a per amp-hour basis.

This doesn't have the self-jump start feature of the AG, but really, that just cuts off discharging when there's 20% battery left, which further amplifies the difference in capacity. Plus, I already have a super capacitor based jump starter I carry in my truck.

Would I recommend installing the the DL battery in your truck? Definitely not if you're not comfortable cutting and splicing battery wires to reach the terminals. Heck, I wasn't comfortable doing that, but I did it anyway!

Would I recommend installing a lithium starter battery in general? Ask me again in a year. You can find YouTube videos telling you lithium under the hood is a terrible idea, and others saying they've had no problem with it.

Since I love me some confirmation bias, I let this guy from Australian, who uses his SUV in far tougher conditions than I use my truck, convince me I'll be okay. But it's easy to find other videos, including other Aussies, saying they went back to lead acid.

As I mention in the other thread, my biggest concerns are charging current/speed, and heat. I'm not worried about damaging my alternator (a warning you'll hear about lithium batteries), since I don't have an alternator; I've got eTorque, and based on what I know, its DC-DC charger should have no issue with a lithium battery.

Whether the lithium battery has an issue with the charger goes back to the question of charging current. I'll be keeping an eye on that. You don't have to wait a year to ask me about that; remind me in a month if I don't post results here.

dam you make alot of sense and yes make sense i have a eco diesel … believe it or not i watched that video already haha so i guess ina year we will find out results! i legit just did my own dc charger for a extra battery i installed in my truck !

 

[jimothy]

Here's a shot of the equipment I used to splice the wires, or at least most of it. Most of this I had on hand already, including the crimper, from other projects/misadventures.

1. Temco dieless crimper; this was the most expensive single item here, at around $80 (I got this refurb a few years ago for less than that).
2. Heat gun for shrink tubing
3. Shrink tubing in red and black
4. Wire harness cloth tape (knockoff Tesa tape)
5. Stretch wire loom (in red/black and black).
6. Red pure copper welding wire in 2 AWG and 4 AWG.
7. Black welding wire in 2 AWG
8. Non-insulated butt connectors for 2 AWG and 4 AWG
9. 2 AWG and 4 AWG battery lugs
10. Wire cutters; mostly used the big ones, the small ones for cleaning up any strands that escaped the big cutters jaws of death.
11. Hook blade for box cutter; this really helps stripping large gauge wire.

Had I not had much of this already, that would have shank the price advantage over the Antigravity, but I still got much more capacity this way. If Dakota Lithium or someone else offered an H7 battery with ≥ 100 Ah capacity, this project would have been much simpler, and none of what you see in this photo would have been necessary.

 

[ZombieSlayer]

Why splice the wires when you can just get the appropriate amount of wire and terminals to replace the existing wires.

 

[jimothy]

Why splice the wires when you can just get the appropriate amount of wire and terminals to replace the existing wires.

Splicing seemed like less work, but yes, that’s also an option. Maybe I’ll do that one day.