Lemon Ram: The FCA FU timeline while dealing with their lemons. An FYI for now or later if needed. Fueling issues. Gas pump problems

[RamBamRepeat]

Do not waste your time like I did trying to work out a buyback directly with FCA.

I’ve taken pride during this lifetime in never having been litigious, never even been to small claims court. However, after a couple months of FCA giving me the run around, for the first time in my life, I hired a lawyer for help.

While ignoring me for months, FCA all of a sudden developed ears and responded ASAP to the lemon law firm that they will buy back my lemon Ram Limited 4x4.

Even then, FCA doesn’t give a about customer loyalty.

I’ve had many, about 20, Rams and Wranglers going back 25 plus years. Some model years have had more hiccups than others. I hung in there, went through the fixes. They just couldn’t fix the current Ram.

So now, several more months since FCA said they’d buy the lemon back, they still don’t have the paperwork together.

And, FCA has known the $800 yearly registration is due tomorrow for months.

They’ve been reminded of the yearly $800 DMV registration fee coming due via the lemon law attorney three times this month. FCA doesn’t care.

So, I sit here with a RAM truck that can’t really safely be driven, (it’s a fuel issue) the CA registration due tomorrow.

If DMV is not paid by 30 days from tomorrow, a 30 percent penalty is added to the $800.

If I non op it, then it will have to be flat bedded to the dealer, or face even higher DMV penalties if caught on the road driving it to the dealer, when FCA gets around to finally setting a turn in date.

The fuel issue is I can’t put fuel in it as you can’t get the gas station fuel nozzle to release for up to 30 minutes or so and gas flies out and all over during the battle to disconnect the fuel nozzle.

The Ram had several “redesigned and updated” fuel neck replacements and was in the shop multiple times adding up to 45 days plus sitting in service while I hoped the issue was finally fixed each time. I do love my Ram trucks after all.

I have no issue with my dealer service advisor or the dealer techs. They did/do their all with what FCA gives them for “new designed” parts and with what the Star case team tells them to do for corrections/fixes.

Huge Mopar guy here since childhood. They’re in my blood!

So now, the Ram has been sitting with a near empty tank in my yard for months. Just enough fuel to get it back to the dealer for turn in.

Understanding crap happens, and once again being a lifelong Mopar guy, I asked if FCA would throw a bone, maybe a couple hundred bucks off incentive to me to stay with the brand and buy another FCA product.

You know how FCA randomly sends out those $500 off cards, in addition to what you negotiate with a dealer, in the mail over the years? Anyway, from FCA, F U, nope. FCA also has no interest in just sending me a like replacement truck.

I’m a big boy, this isn’t whining, just sharing my experience so others with FCA lemons get on it with a lawyer involved quicker than I did for a resolve that takes, well, in my case, up to 8 months so far.

What I also didn’t know about lemon law, at least in CA, is that the vehicle manufacturer pays your attorney fees.

In terms of buyback, at least in CA, it’s your purchase price back plus taxes, less an amount for the miles you drove pre the first complaint about a repeat issue.

Lemon law also pertains to a used vehicle you may have purchased as long as it is still under factory warranty. I had no idea about that either.

So, if you take a new vehicle in at 900 miles for what becomes a repeat issue, 900 miles of mileage use is deducted. If you have the issue at 900 miles but wait to take it in until 5k miles, then 5k miles of “trouble free miles” is deducted. Go in sooner than later!

Say you buy a used vehicle, but under factory warranty, with 5000 miles on it. You first take it in for what ends up being a repeat lemon problem at 5300 miles. Though you’ve only driven it 300 miles, 5300 miles of “no trouble use” will be deducted. This is where you get totally screwed if the prior owner just opted to dump their lemon on a lot and thus the next unsuspecting buyer gets this brunt of charge back of the prior owners miles.

The prior owner takes the hit on their trade in value to just get rid of it instead of going through the lemon law process. The next buyer then takes further hits for miles they didn’t even drive when they get entangled in the mess as the next owner. But, on the plus, at least lemon law does still give that next buyer some recourse.

This all based on what I’ve learned going through the lemon law based on California’s version of it.

Any vehicle you Google with lemon attached to it will bring up examples.
I get that. It’s the FU timeline from FCA that is really turning me off from a lifelong infatuation with Jeep and Ram.

I already told the dealer to resell a replacement I’d ordered that just came in this week since FCA corporate can’t and doesn’t care to get off the pot.

The Ram is paid for so no complicated formula of payments or lease numbers for FCA to figure out, just purchase price plus tax, less mileage use up to the first time the Ram went in for the problem. Yet, again, many months later since they told the lemon law firm they’d buy it back and nothing.

Hope all this helps you or someone you know in cutting to the lemon law buyback chase with FCA quicker if you have an FCA lemon now or end up with one down the road.

 

[shurik74]

Thanks for sharing your experience with lemon law especially in CA state. Couple questions:

1. Where in CA are you?
2. How did you find a right lawyer by the way?

 

[ktl5005]

So in english whats wrong with filling it up? It won't accept it and flies out? Try just holding the trigger and fueling it slower??

 

[BNeal]

Can you return the truck now, get a rental, and have your lawyer charge back the rental fees to FCA until they sort it our and refund your money?

 

[RamBamRepeat]

Thanks for sharing your experience with lemon law especially in CA state. Couple questions:

1. Where in CA are you?
2. How did you find a right lawyer by the way?

I'm in Los Angeles. So, after a couple months, I finally had enough of FCA ignoring me and started searching out lemon law lawyers online one day. I filled out online forms for a few lemon law firms. Each one of them emailed or called me back quickly.

I then talked to various firms on the phone. One firm on the East Coast, that represents lemon law cases in various states, including California, has an office in L.A. as well...I felt comfortable with.

His firm emailed over a very easy to understand contract, which highlighted no fee to me no matter what happens with the case. I sent him back the signed contract via email along with my various invoices from dealer repair attempts, video of the problem.

Not that many days later, FCA is returning his call telling him they will indeed buy the truck back. This after I never could get any corporate response no matter how many times I contacted corporate, talked to @RamCares etc.

I don't know what the rules are on the forum in sharing the lemon law firm I went with in this post, but happy to share it in a private message through the forum.

Again, I gave FCA all the chances in the world to contact me pre hiring the lawyer to no avail. Even with the lawyer they are still dicking around with setting the Ram turn in date. Sadly, It'd be even more so if I didn't have the representation.

 

[RamBamRepeat]

So in english whats wrong with filling it up? It won't accept it and flies out? Try just holding the trigger and fueling it slower??

I did a post on the forum months back videoing the issue. I'll see if I can find it and do a copy and paste to your questions so you can see it as well.

There are multiple issues with putting in gas in various Ram trucks I've since learned. Some people it takes forever just getting the fuel into the truck. The pump shuts off every few seconds during fill ups.

Others, like me, it fills up just fine. You then just can not get the gas station fuel nozzle to release. I'm not talking some evap suction thing. I'm saying, twist, turn, pull, push, use nice words, use bad words...nothing will break it free.

And, as mentioned above, multiple FCA fuel neck redesigns have been put in place in an attempt to fix this. Does not work still.

Also, if you google class action lawsuit Ram truck fuel (or gas) nozzle stuck, you can read up on that and see what's brewing there.

 

[RamBamRepeat]

Can you return the truck now, get a rental, and have your lawyer charge back the rental fees to FCA until they sort it our and refund your money?

I was put in a dealer loaner or about 6 weeks. After that, I then would have had to start paying for a rental myself. And then, yes, have my lawyer would go after FCA for that as well.

Again, trying to be a decent guy I said I won't do a rental and add to costs, just do the buy back in a timely manner. Well, at this point, I should have done a rental indeed and charged it to FCA via the lemon law.

Meanwhile, I do have to keep paying full coverage insurance on the truck as it sits out in the yard. FCA will argue that they don't have to pay that insurance back because I needed to have insurance on the Ram to drive it. Well, that'd be the case if I could put fuel in it safely to drive it while going through the lemon law.

Luckily I have another personal vehicle to use meanwhile.

If I didn't I would have had to do the rental, had to pay for it monthly, plus the insurance on my truck sitting in the yard.
Then, add that whole mess into the equation as well.

I was thinking from the whole standpoint of, "OK, FCA is going to make this right, has said to the lawyer they will do the buyback, so I don't need to add further expense to FCA for a rental."

This many months later, knowing how FCA is at this point, I would do the rental for all these months and too bad to FCA whatever that cost is. And this, coming from someone who hates to waste money, whether it's mine or someone else's!

 

[ktl5005]

I did a post on the forum months back videoing the issue. I'll see if I can find it and do a copy and paste to your questions so you can see it as well.

There are multiple issues with putting in gas in various Ram trucks I've since learned. Some people it takes forever just getting the fuel into the truck. The pump shuts off every few seconds during fill ups.

Others, like me, it fills up just fine. You then just can not get the gas station fuel nozzle to release. I'm not talking some evap suction thing. I'm saying, twist, turn, pull, push, use nice words, use bad words...nothing will break it free.

And, as mentioned above, multiple FCA fuel neck redesigns have been put in place in an attempt to fix this. Does not work still.

Also, if you google class action lawsuit Ram truck fuel (or gas) nozzle stuck, you can read up on that and see what's brewing there.

Ahh gotcha

 

[Dusty1948]

That's too bad. Frankly, I've never heard of a "good" buy back experience with anybody. The closest I ever came was with a 1972 Chevy C15, but it was just easier to trade it off.

By the way, what configuration (model) was your truck?

Hope you have better luck going forward.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 044783 miles.

 

[RamBamRepeat]

That's too bad. Frankly, I've never heard of a "good" buy back experience with anybody. The closest I ever came was with a 1972 Chevy C15, but it was just easier to trade it off.

By the way, what configuration (model) was your truck?

Hope you have better luck going forward.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 044783 miles.

Loaded up with every option possible including 4x4 and the 4x4 off road package on top of that, Ram boxes (that the doors fell apart to/delaminated from while the black truck sat out in the hot summer sun for 6 weeks at the dealer on their black top parking lot.) Even that I was decent about as they could be fixed. Though, to do so, new Ram Boxes would be needed, then, when they arrived, sent out to a body shop to be color matched to the truck.

While on the other issues I didn't stress over as I'm more about finding a resolve than freaking out...also, the auto stop start yellow warning A light was on various times. it went in two or three times for this. Turned out to be a hood sensor eventually. Again, I figured it would get worked out, and it did, so no big deal.

The front driver inner fender liner had some issue the tech saw and resolved with a new one.

The air suspension does make noise as if it is doing something on its own now and again while parked. I figured it's just talking to me, never bothered to have that looked into.

The leather on the edges of seats is flaking off. Not a crease, or a wear from jeans against it. Along the perimeter, the pattern of the leather is actually lifting off. I read of others complaining about that with the beige and indigo interior. Again, not a big deal to me.

The brakes do squeal now and again. Never asked about that. I read on the forums others have.

All this in the first few thousand miles.

I can live with all that stuff.

However, not being able to put gas in it without getting knotted to the pump for a half hour or so each time, that is a no go.

The first time it happened was as the riots were going on and I was trying to get out of the city. I stopped quickly for fuel and was stuck to the pump. I seriously thought, "Do I make a run for it on foot? Floor it and just break the pump and hose away and hope nothing blows up?" Very stressful in that moment.

Thankfully, it was just me in the truck at that moment if I had to make a run for it. The pump eventually broke free. The gas station attendant had already fled by that point.

Each time the dealer installed the newest re designed fuel neck, it would work maybe two or three times. Then, bam, back to, "Is this the time I am going to be stuck to the pump forever?"

One of the times after a dealer fix, the tech and I drove straight to the gas station. Stuck the first time out. He had to work it free with screwdrivers etc. Several more repairs, replacements of the fuel necks after this time.

Very frustrating as I really do like the truck overall. Such a nice ride, interior...when the headliner isn't leaking! lol. Actually that is one problem I read a lot about that I did not have.

 

[wallyuwl]

Crappy how FCA is treating you. They will end up paying more in the end. $800 registration? Yikes. No wonder people are fleeing CA with costs like that.

On the Ford forum I frequented some people got buybacks, and Ford would always throw in at least another $1000 if they went with another Ford to replace the bought back one.

 

[RamBamRepeat]

Crappy how FCA is treating you. They will end up paying more in the end. $800 registration? Yikes. No wonder people are fleeing CA with costs like that.

On the Ford forum I frequented some people got buybacks, and Ford would always throw in at least another $1000 if they went with another Ford to replace the bought back one.

California DMV fees, insane indeed. First year registration was about a grand. So, that is California "being nice" and discounting the registration fee to only 800 for the next go round. Then, add in near 10 percent sales tax on the purchase price of everything from candy to cars. Then, there's real estate tax, state income tax and on and on. Ugh.

I was told if I wanted nicey nice, we appreciate you for staying with our brand again after this hiccup, go to VW or Subaru for that. Hmm, they making that Subaru Brat again? Or, I think VW had a pick up too. Oh, but is VW showing their accurate smog readings now after that major PR fiasco that cost them a ton. Hmm?

It's just about always something isn't it?

 

[mikeru82]

I have to say you should be commended for your patience. I'm not sure I would have been as patient and polite as you seem to have been. I hope your issue is resolved real soon, and no one would blame you for never buying an FCA product again.

With all the fueling issues people are having with the new 1500's, I'm wondering how much work it would be to adapt a 4th gen fuel filler tube (Mopar part # 68448220AA) onto a 5th gen. I never read about people having problems fueling a 4th gen. The two I had were never an issue. I looked the parts up, and they don't look that much different. They are pretty close to the same shape and length, although I'd have to compare them directly to know for sure. The main difference is in the way they mount, and that would be pretty easy to modify. I dislike the capless fuel system, so I ordered one to see for myself. Worst thing that can happen is I'm out $68 LOL

 

[Willwork4truck]

Sheesh, reading this makes me both: amazed at your patience and glad that my Ltd has none of those issues (yet). Sorry that you’ve had all of this and worse yet, who will get the truck next? I understand that in many states the title will be “branded” and indicate it was a buy-back.

FCA really should just give you a new one and say “sorry” big time.

This from the website goldsmithwest.com:
“What happens to lemon vehicles after they are legally considered lemons? When the manufacturer takes your vehicle back in a lemon law buyback or replacement, it will generally liquidate the remaining value in the car by selling it at auction.

Does the next owner know the car is a lemon? The answer should be yes. The Automotive Consumer Notification Act (ACNA), found at California Civil Code §1793.23, was added to the California lemon law (a.k.a. the Song Beverly Consumer Warranty Act), requiring the manufacturer taking the car back to permanently inscribe the title as a “lemon law buyback”, making it a lemon law title branded vehicle.

This law also requires the manufacturer to disclose in writing to the subsequent purchaser the nature of the lemon issue, the replairs performed, and that the specific lemon issue is protected by warranty for one year.

The intention of the law is to prevent “lemon laundering”, whereby a lemon vehicle is not lemon law title branded and is passed off to an unsuspecting consumer.

Effect on the Value of the Vehicle​

Cars are depreciating assets as it is. A lemon car title is similar to a “salvage title” for a total loss vehicle, though it is not as devastating to the car’s value as a salvage title. Even so, it further reduces the value of your already pre-owned vehicle, even if the manufacturer can repair the lemon defect, because the lemon car title travels with the vehicle for the rest of its life.”

End of copied article portion

 

[nburd]

I wonder if it’s a California issue? California fuel filler nozzles on your pumps, due to CA emissions capture, are different than other States I have been to. I see that the Class action originated in CA. Having travelled there many dozens of times, some rental cars I have rented, seem to have trouble with the filler necks. I am sure just a hint of what’s to come country wide after 1/21!

BTW Vehicles should be fully compliant with any States mandated emission devices, like fuel nozzles.

 

[RamBamRepeat]

I wonder if it’s a California issue? California fuel filler nozzles on your pumps, due to CA emissions capture, are different than other States I have been to. I see that the Class action originated in CA. Having travelled there many dozens of times, some rental cars I have rented, seem to have trouble with the filler necks. I am sure just a hint of what’s to come country wide after 1/21!

BTW Vehicles should be fully compliant with any States mandated emission devices, like fuel nozzles.

People in other states are often surprised to see the CA gas station nozzles. They definitely have a big amount of rubber etc around the metal nozzle the fuel actually comes through.
That alone sometimes creates evap suction that makes it take a few seconds to release the nozzle from various vehicles.

Some comments I've come across online say to just go to another station. Well, three major brand gas stations it sticks to, to the extreme.

If you can find an older style mom and pop gas station, which there are very few, that style nozzle may be more friendly as it might have just the short metal rod and a little bit of the rubber foreskin around it.

HOWEVER, knowing how CA works, those pumps will be eventually eliminated and then one is totally out of luck...especially if the truck is out of warranty then and so is its lemon law window.

I have read of cases in other states such as Oregon that have the pump sticking to the new Ram trucks.

And, I've read about people complaining if a vehicle is made to comply/work in all states, the vehicle will cost more for them to deal with a state they aren't even in. Good grief.

Well, to those, hope you never plan to travel to other states in your vehicle and that the EPA doesn't have your pumps changed in your lifetime.

I've spent way too many hours reading up on all this when I'd rather be out in the garage working on a classic toy.

And, as stated in the original post, figured I'd just put out what I did/now know about the lemon law to save others some grief, time and wishful thinking that FCA will do right, in a timely matter, especially if you give it a go while on your own dealing with them.

While I'm in an ok place to swing it and have another personal car, I think about those who would have to make their lemon vehicle payments, pay that vehicle's insurance and then on top of that have to pay for a monthly rental car on credit card or whatever until the case is resolved and they hopefully get reimbursed.

Just wrong and appalling timeline and treatment from FCA whether you are a one time brand buyer or a lifelong customer.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Yep, it’s wrong to be “hung out to dry” like that.

Guess the days of carrying a 5 gallon can with you as an emergency supply won’t fly in California either. No fume capture on those.