Is the Hemi truly flawed by design?

[silver billet]

This guy does some detective work and sort of confirms what rumours have been floating around; the cam shaft is starved of oil, especially at low rpms (<= 1500). Lots of idling kills the cam + lifters. The cam is only getting sufficient oil when the RPMS spin up and fling oil around.

I'm getting seriously nervous about my truck. I bought it hoping it would be my "forever" truck (well for at least 10/15+ years), but I just get more and more worried about this thing.

Somebody please tell me they've made changes to address this, or that my decision to purchase redline 5w-30 (thicker oil which hangs onto the parts longer, spreading out the dry spells) is actually helping.

The thing is, my truck absolutely lives between 1000 - 2000 rpms. I can go weeks without going past 2000 rpms, even getting onto freeways etc.

Sweet mother of mercy I'm depressed.

 

[ktl5005]

Many HEMIs out there running strong on previous generation above 60k miles....

 

[Fatherof3]

There’s a guy at work that has over 250k on his 2010

 

[HoosierTrooper]

I find it hard to believe that good ole Uncle Tony found a “flaw” that thousands and thousands of mechanics and engineers missed, or may be fixed on the 5th gen engines.

 

[devildodge]

I have 2 HEMI HeavyDuty trucks. One is a 2003 5.7 HEMI with 153xxx miles and a 2015 6.4 HEMI with 136xxx miles. Non issue with mine.

 

[ram0686]

I wonder if the new Shell Rotella oil for gas engines would help this situation?

I've read that it has more moly etc.... anti-wear additives.

Guess time will tell, I keep my trucks a minimum of 10 years... if my Hemi craps out.. back to GM i reckon.

 

[Kidder]

My 4th gen 2011 1500 Hemi had 115k miles on it and it had zero issues when I traded it on a 2500 in 2016.

 

[Orion10182011]

I find it hard to believe that good ole Uncle Tony found a “flaw” that thousands and thousands of mechanics and engineers missed, or may be fixed on the 5th gen engines.

This and you have people out there running the oil wight their grandpa told them about instead of what the manual says.

Add to that, the Internet is famous for a hand full of people with problems seem like everyone has the problem.

 

[silver billet]

I find it hard to believe that good ole Uncle Tony found a “flaw” that thousands and thousands of mechanics and engineers missed, or may be fixed on the 5th gen engines.

Normally I'd agree with you. But if you search youtube there are tons of videos showing the cam and lifter issues; cam is lobbed off, lifter rollers are ceased, lifters show grinding marks, there seems to be a definite oil starvation issue. This guy is simply giving an expert opinion as to why it's happening, the fact that it IS happening seems to be well accepted by now (especially among cops which idle them for long periods of time)

 

[silver billet]

I have 2 HEMI HeavyDuty trucks. One is a 2003 5.7 HEMI with 153xxx miles and a 2015 6.4 HEMI with 136xxx miles. Non issue with mine.

The issue here seems to be really high among 5.7's with the MDS. Non MDS's don't seem to be effected.

 

[silver billet]

This and you have people out there running the oil wight their grandpa told them about instead of what the manual says.

Add to that, the Internet is famous for a hand full of people with problems seem like everyone has the problem.

You're not doing justice to the problem. Do some youtube searches for example. It appears to be well documented.

As for the oil; again you're not digging deep enough. Lets assume there is an oil starvation issue, then the "watery" oil like 5W-10 can make it worse by very quickly wearing off the cam, whereas a thicker oil might prevent that as quickly.

So you need to know why they recommend a certain oil; in this case it looks like it's to get better MPG, not to increase engine life. The thinner oil helps the MDS system, but it doesn't mean it's the best lubricant out there for this specific engine. Thicker oil, and with better additives like Moly can postpone the issue or basically prevent it from happening too early in the lifetime of the engine.

 

[Benji80]

My 2012 had 205k miles when I traded it. No issues with the engine at all

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Normally I'd agree with you. But if you search youtube there are tons of videos showing the cam and lifter issues; cam is lobbed off, lifter rollers are ceased, lifters show grinding marks, there seems to be a definite oil starvation issue. This guy is simply giving an expert opinion as to why it's happening, the fact that it IS happening seems to be well accepted by now (especially among cops which idle them for long periods of time)

I'm not saying there hasn't been an issue, I'm saying that I'm highly skeptical that he's the only one who has discovered why. And I've mentioned on here in another thread, I asked the mechanic at the district I work out of and he said the last Charger he had to send to a dealership for a cam/lifter issue was a 2015, he's seen none starting with the 2016 models. That gave me the confidence to buy one.

 

[Firebird]

I’ve met so many people with 150,000 to 450,000 miles on their Hemi’s that I have no concerns about them. Just be sure to perform proper oil changes.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

You're not doing justice to the problem. Do some youtube searches for example. It appears to be well documented.

As for the oil; again you're not digging deep enough. Lets assume there is an oil starvation issue, then the "watery" oil like 5W-10 can make it worse by very quickly wearing off the cam, whereas a thicker oil might prevent that as quickly.

So you need to know why they recommend a certain oil; in this case it looks like it's to get better MPG, not to increase engine life. The thinner oil helps the MDS system, but it doesn't mean it's the best lubricant out there for this specific engine. Thicker oil, and with better additives like Moly can postpone the issue or basically prevent it from happening too early in the lifetime of the engine.

I assume you meant 5W-20 since 5W-10 doesn't exist. 5W-30 oils are only about 2 cSt thicker than 5W-20 at 212F, which is not much at all, and molybdenum is present in XW-20 oils just like it is in XW-30. Most companies use a similar additive package across the board for their XW-20 and XW-30 products.

What's interesting is that 5W-30 came to exist in the mid 80's because the EPA was pushing auto manufacturers to increase their average gas mileage (CAFE), so they turned to the oil producers for help. 10W-30 existed but 10W-40 was by far the most popular oil in use, so the oil producers had to find a way to make a thinner oil that would work in all weather conditions, help improve gas mileage and protect engines all at the same time. Sound familiar?

If the interwebs had been around back then I'm guessing message boards would've been full of people complaining about the "watery thin" 5W-30 that was being forced on them strictly to help the auto manufacturers meet CAFE, and that they knew would wear out their engines faster than the "thicker and better" 10W-40 they had been using.

5W-30 turned out to be a good idea and did exactly what it was designed to do, and now, after 20 years of use XW-20 has also been proven to be a good idea and does what it's intended to do very well. History tends to repeat itself.

 

[User_3336]

My truck has NEVER seen MDS! I turn if off as soon as the truck goes in drive.

 

[vdemarco]

The issue here seems to be really high among 5.7's with the MDS. Non MDS's don't seem to be effected.

From my reading/watching its all systems from 2009-2015. in 2015 they changed the cam and lifters, which showed up in 2016 cars. Videos also talk about not just affecting MDS systems, but all of them, and only in those years. So far i feel good about the 2020 truck, (i got the extended warranty on it, so that should be fine). My wifes 2011 durango with 80,000 miles on it seems great, the engine in the 2011 Durango is actually much quieter than in the 2020 ram.

the "explainations" seem dubious. if the cam was not getting enough lubrication then there would be more motors with the issue. a car with 200,000 miles on it would have certainly spent a huge amount of time idling.

I think that if the issue stopped in 2016 that the cause was the material used for the cams and lifters. from my reading etc, it seems that the part number changed in 2016.

If you have a car between 2009 to 2015 then keep an ear out for the tick on the engine, hemi engines all have that tick, it should not be super loud and it should go away as soon as the engine gets to operating temperatures.

Look i am no expert here, i just bought my 2020 rebel (love the truck). I am also trying to calm myself a bit too.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

This video was just released. He explains what he believes to be the flaw in Uncle Tonys theory about the flaw in Gen 3 cams. See what I did there?

 

[STR]

Worried... Depressed? I think you’d have to worry more about the body lasting 15 years than the engine. I certainly wouldn’t lose any sleep over the cam shaft boogieman... Boo

 

[silver billet]

This video was just released. He explains what he believes to be the flaw in Uncle Tonys theory about the flaw in Gen 3 cams. See what I did there?

My post was a question, not a statement I don't know enough to make an educated opinion on this.

The more discussion we have on this the better, I just want reassurance that my engine will last longer than 190,000 miles, because that's not really some large feat.