Is the Hemi truly flawed by design?

[Willwork4truck]

I’ll give you 50% of value and take it off your hands, if you show a new oil change receipt so that when driving away it doesn’t self-destruct.

Seriously, don’t you think this and the other RAM forums would be screaming about this if it was a big issue on the 2016 and up?

Believe about 10% or less of the horror stories and just enjoy your truck.
Every brand has flaws, some engines might be a little better/stronger but then that brand will have tranny, rear end or suspension issues.

Talk to mighty Toyota, a good 5.7 motor and a problematic rust-prone frame (Toyota agreed to a massive $3.4 billion settlement for owners of the 2005-2010 Tacoma, 2007-2008 Tundra and 2005-2008 Sequoia.)

Nissan had rear axle seal failures necessitating a whole new axle from about 2004-2009, but the motor was good.

GM, well lets just say that the 5.3 has had it’s ups and down on oil consumption (2007 AFM ring to cylinder wall clearance) and their 8 and 10 speed trannies have had software problems plus the 2014-2016 wind buffeting/shaking issues drove owners bonkers.

Ford had problems with oil consumption on the later 5.0’s and turbo failures/valve coking on the earlier ecoboosts.

So the hemi has a tick, oh well. Have an extended factory warranty? Maybe you should if you are worried. These are all mass produced drivetrains, some with engineering issues that can be fixed, some you just live with until you can’t or decide something else is prettier.

What are the odds you will keep your truck to 150-200K anyway? Me, the vehicle is gone within 6 years just cause’ I have this idea that something is better...

 

[SpeedyV]

For good, factual reading on the modern HEMI, spend some time at Allpar. Here’s an article on the history of the HEMI to get you started.

Also note that by 2016, 3 million modern HEMIs were already in service. We’d know by now if there was a “fatal flaw”. Note that all authorities DO recommend using the correct grade of oil (5W-20); FCA engineers performed “aggressive” testing of MDS to 150,000 miles with no adverse wear.

 

[silver billet]

Seriously, don’t you think this and the other RAM forums would be screaming about this if it was a big issue on the 2016 and up?

Well there is a 47 page thread on this exact issue on a popular ram forum, last active 2 days ago.

Maybe 1000 posts on that thread doesn't constitute "screaming", but "alarming", definitely.

Believe about 10% or less of the horror stories and just enjoy your truck.

There is nothing to "not believe". I've experienced many issues with my truck now, and it's only a year old. The issues I experience lead me to search, and the alarm builds from there. I'm not just looking for things to make me nervous for fun.

If there is definite proof that Ram has addressed this beyond 2016 then I will sleep much easier.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Well there is a 47 page thread on this exact issue on a popular ram forum, last active 2 days ago.

Maybe 1000 posts on that thread doesn't constitute "screaming", but "alarming", definitely.



There is nothing to "not believe". I've experienced many issues with my truck now, and it's only a year old. The issues I experience lead me to search, and the alarm builds from there. I'm not just looking for things to make me nervous for fun.

If there is definite proof that Ram has addressed this beyond 2016 then I will sleep much easier.

I’d still say get an extended warranty or if you aren’t happy trade it off. There’s likely not going to be engineering changes to the hemi, heck they won’t even fix the ac blend door. I’d not be waiting for a fix for the tick.

There’s thousands of blissfully not forum reading RAM, Ford, GM, Toyota and Nissan owners out there who’d look at others and say “what problems?”. Are they the “lucky ones” or is it just that some trucks, some drivetrains have issues and some don’t?

I read the Honda Odyssey forums some as I would like a minivan after I get rid of my Ford Edge. Some of the higher trims have variable cylinder management issues on the Honda’s that require re-ring’s in cylinders 3 and 4, as well as $500 each engine mounts. The Honda forum talks about it alot yet many 1st time posters have 100K plus and have never had the oil burning or engine mounts go out.

On the Edge, the 2007-2014 3.5 motor has an internal water pump that's $3-4K to fix and will ruin the block if it goes out. If it has (AWD only) a PTU (like a center differential) that is a poorly designed part and often burns up due to oil starvation/heat, there is $1600-2K to replace. Both of those items are clear design flaws/choices, yet many Edge owners have 100-150K miles on theirs without a problem.

So for both examples, which is it? Poorly designed fatal flaws, dumb luck to have avoided the issues or what? The poor guy who has lost an engine due to the water pump failing at 80K will curse the day he bought the Edge. The guy whose PTU goes out and he doesn't have an extended warranty will cuss Ford for that stupid non-serviceable “lubed for life“ part. The Odyssey owner who has to get $2K of engine work (due to the VCM that Honda still won’t admit to all the way into 2016) won’t be singing the praises of Japanese engineering.

Trouble is, for every one that has the issue, there’s plenty who don’t.
All I’m saying is that you’ll maybe hear from hemi owners who have never had a problem and you’ll likely hear from those who say they have had one. Doesn’t make it statistically significant or that your truck engine will fail.

 

[Willwork4truck]

I looked at the last page of a 31 page thread on this on another forum. While I didn’t read the 31 pages, I did note that for some owners, the “tick” is just too much and they are walking away. That’s their choice, I’m not going to make a value judgement. If it bothers someone that much then best to trade it off.
Just remember the grass ain’t always greener...

From RamForum.com, dated June 1, 2020, poster “Crockett” says:

Mine just started the tick as well. The video posted yesterday shows me all I need to know and it makes 100% sense. The marks on the lifters explain exactly what is going. No matter what oil you guys use, it is a massive design fail and the shortage of lucubration will cause premature failure.

I won't be playing around with 15 different oils, being send back home by arrogant dealers and risking a 5k repair right after warranty runs out. Will be selling my truck.

End of copied post #302

 

[PowerJrod]

This guy does some detective work and sort of confirms what rumours have been floating around; the cam shaft is starved of oil, especially at low rpms (<= 1500). Lots of idling kills the cam + lifters. The cam is only getting sufficient oil when the RPMS spin up and fling oil around.

I'm getting seriously nervous about my truck. I bought it hoping it would be my "forever" truck (well for at least 10/15+ years), but I just get more and more worried about this thing.

Somebody please tell me they've made changes to address this, or that my decision to purchase redline 5w-30 (thicker oil which hangs onto the parts longer, spreading out the dry spells) is actually helping.

The thing is, my truck absolutely lives between 1000 - 2000 rpms. I can go weeks without going past 2000 rpms, even getting onto freeways etc.

Sweet mother of mercy I'm depressed.

BS. In fact...when the 5.7 became the Dodge standard V8...it was way ahead of it's time. There are thousands of people who don't push their engines above 2k RPMs that are doing just fine and have been for a long time...careful with the internet Chrysler haters. I'm not saying that Ram is the best and most reliable truck in the world...but the Hemi is far from flawed. Of course if my Ram fails... it'll be back to Ford for me since GM screwed over every American customer they could in the last few years.

 

[Willwork4truck]

BS. In fact...when the 5.7 became the Dodge standard V8...it was way ahead of it's time. There are thousands of people who don't push their engines above 2k RPMs that are doing just fine and have been for a long time...careful with the internet Chrysler haters. I'm not saying that Ram is the best and most reliable truck in the world...but the Hemi is far from flawed. Of course if my Ram fails... it'll be back to Ford for me since GM screwed over every American customer they could in the last few years.

Well if not pushing it above 2K is helpful, this motor should go 500K, thanks to 3.21 gears and grandpa driving...

 

[silver billet]

BS. In fact...when the 5.7 became the Dodge standard V8...it was way ahead of it's time. There are thousands of people who don't push their engines above 2k RPMs that are doing just fine and have been for a long time...careful with the internet Chrysler haters. I'm not saying that Ram is the best and most reliable truck in the world...but the Hemi is far from flawed. Of course if my Ram fails... it'll be back to Ford for me since GM screwed over every American customer they could in the last few years.

Whether it's BS or not, worth mentioning that he is not an internet chrylser hater. I haven't watched much of his channel but I believe he has more chrylser projects. He also knows his way around engines, he's not just some keyboard warrior who doesn't know how to change his own oil.

Don't write everybody off just because they might criticize your current toys. Otherwise you come off looking like a zealot

 

[silver billet]

Well if not pushing it above 2K is helpful, this motor should go 500K, thanks to 3.21 gears and grandpa driving...

It's the exact opposite. He claims the flaw is that the cam won't getting oiled unless you're at 2000 and above. So if that theory is correct, considering I own the 3.21 and rarely push it hard (my engine can go weeks without going past 2000 rpms), my cam would then "never" be getting oiled.

 

[cotonymopar]

my 2003 Hemi, first gen of the hemi, traded it at 208000 miles, no problems, 2012 ram traded it at 123000, no problems, and I have a 2019 now, 20000 miles, do oil changes at 6000-9000 miles, mobil 1 and a good filter. Keep the maintenance up, you should not have a problem. (each one traded for a new truck)

the 2003 had a MSD 6Hemi unit, MSD wires, MSD programmer, shaker hood, ran on the Dyno 145 MPH pulls.

 

[PowerJrod]

It's the exact opposite. He claims the flaw is that the cam won't getting oiled unless you're at 2000 and above. So if that theory is correct, considering I own the 3.21 and rarely push it hard (my engine can go weeks without going past 2000 rpms), my cam would then "never" be getting oiled.

That's the thing...it wouldn't made any sense because if it never got oiled there would be engine failure within the first month of driving.

 

[vdemarco]

Also once again the "bad" engines are from 2009-2015

 

[PowerJrod]

Whether it's BS or not, worth mentioning that he is not an internet chrylser hater. I haven't watched much of his channel but I believe he has more chrylser projects. He also knows his way around engines, he's not just some keyboard warrior who doesn't know how to change his own oil.

Don't write everybody off just because they might criticize your current toys. Otherwise you come off looking like a zealot

I hear ya, but still...there's a huge difference between a cam not getting a surplus of oil VS. a cam not getting ANY oil. The engine would seize up before the second oil change. So in that respect I think he's at least exaggerating for sure.

 

[silver billet]

I hear ya, but still...there's a huge difference between a cam not getting a surplus of oil VS. a cam not getting ANY oil. The engine would seize up before the second oil change. So in that respect I think he's at least exaggerating for sure.

And I hear you guys too; I don't remember the exact verbiage, he may have said "not getting oil" or "not getting enough oil" or "not getting any oil", his point was that the cam wasn't getting oiled enough. I'm sure he wasn't making the claim that it never once saw a drop of oil. The difference between "enough" and "not enough" is that the cams were getting worn prematurely and lifters same thing, showing signs of oil starvation.

I'm happy to hear that the effected engines are before 2015 though.

 

[tpartain]

Blah blah blah. Nothing to see here. Move along. Internet trolls and backyard motor engineers.

 

[silver billet]

Blah blah blah. Nothing to see here. Move along. Internet trolls and backyard motor engineers.

Take your own advice, nobody is forcing you to be in this thread.

 

[Willwork4truck]

It's the exact opposite. He claims the flaw is that the cam won't getting oiled unless you're at 2000 and above. So if that theory is correct, considering I own the 3.21 and rarely push it hard (my engine can go weeks without going past 2000 rpms), my cam would then "never" be getting oiled.

Guess I should have watched his video. I’ll take my chances with the hemi, don’t even have an extended warranty. (Always lost on those, my last one on the Edge went out with zero claims.)

I’m surprised that this apparent “flaw” is a result of too low of rpm’s. Maybe the 3.92 crowd is right after all. All I’m going to do is keep the oil changed and use Chrysler approved viscosity. I’m definitely not as smart as their engineers.

 

[Rhombus]

It's the exact opposite. He claims the flaw is that the cam won't getting oiled unless you're at 2000 and above. So if that theory is correct, considering I own the 3.21 and rarely push it hard (my engine can go weeks without going past 2000 rpms), my cam would then "never" be getting oiled.

Wouldn’t the engine have already failed then?

 

[vdemarco]

Wouldn’t the engine have already failed then?

Not disagreeing with you at all. But you have a 2020, the bad time frame for the issue is 2009-2015. in 2016 they changed the material/design (something) in the cams and lifters.

 

[derp]

This seems like a problem ripe for an aftermarket solution or at the least a test.

As described, the obstruction immediately below the cam blocks oil from being slung directly at the cam on the top end.

A direct oil delivery from the pan or a partial flow diversion after the filter to the top end by a pressurized line that then lays on top of the obstructing tube in the casting (and secured against movcement) would restore that lubrication onto the cam at all speeds.

At minimum, it would need a lot of disassembly and careful plumbing along with a secondary oil pump and supply line that can be run up and through to the location to spray from along the bottom end. you could capture oil from the filter assembly with an inline coupler and snake the spray tube up through the oil drain plug, along the bottom end of the engine, and then up the passage where oil is usually slung to then spray from closer to the cam with no obstructions.

most of the actual cost of even trying to fix that issue is in refit labor.