Interesting YouTube on the Demise of the Eco-Diesel

[DavidNJ]

 

[n8zcc]

This video came across my feed a while back. He makes a lot of assumptions, none I can agree with. Yes, there were emission growing pains, but Ford and GM also shared in that. The Gen 3 ED got it right and why corporate decided to drop it from the RAM is a mystery to us (I'm disappointed), I've yet to see an explanation from RAM. I also can't buy into his assumption that RAM ED buyers were mostly city dwellers, most city folks have no clue what a diesel is or why they would want one.

 

[DavidNJ]

Ford also discontinued their diesel. My guess is a low take rate plus high costs and possibly warranty cost issues.

 

[n8zcc]

Ford also discontinued their diesel. My guess is a low take rate plus high costs and possibly warranty cost issues.

Ford claims they dropped the baby Powerstoke dues to lackluster sales because their customers were opting for the ECOBoosts.

 

[WXman]

I think I covered this in a video many months ago. But, basically you have new corporate ownership who is dedicated to the EV craze, combined with extremely high warranty repair costs, combined with diesel fuel that is $2/gallon more expensive in most of the country eating away any savings with the diesel. I had two of the Gen 3 engines myself, but honestly I understand why they're ditching it.

 

[AdamChandler]

<didn’t watch the video>

The EcoDiesel Gen 3 is a marvel Made possible by FCA and Fiat’s Italian motor that is small and puts down pretty good power with crazy good efficiency. I grabbed the 8 year 125K mile warranty for around $1800 I think. It’ll pay for itself by the time I’m done with the truck. Average 23 MPG city, 27 MPG interstate and 21 MPG at maximum pay load with 3 motorcycles. I’m very happy with the motor.

As for why it’s dead? It’s an expensive option $3-5K to add it to the 1500 builds. I think it was $3200 on my Limited to add it. When I did that (may of 2021), Diesel was $2.50 a gallon in New Hampshire. Now it’s double that at $5. I just moved to NC where Diesel is $4 but still…my excel spreadsheet assumed $3 a gallon and I’d come out even on the diesel (minus any maintenance or replacing injectors) around 30K miles over gasoline. Now it’s probably more like 50K miles before I break even On upgrading from eTorque To Diesel.

Now that I’m living in a city And no longer in the country, the one thing I notice is how fast people drive. I can’t keep up with them without impacting my MPGs. When a light turns green, once everyone is done texting costing me 5-10 seconds waiting for traffic to start, everyone is on my butt pulling away. I could floor it and be as fast as gasoline engines but I’m on diesel time and people really are on my butt wondering why I’m going so slow. I just have to ignore their tailgating because I’m going as fast as I can with the mileage I want to achieve. I kind of want to put a big huge diesel sticker on the back to tell people this is not a V8 Hemi.

 

[tom318]

I think on paper I have to agree it makes sense for them to ditch it though it kills me to say that. It is a pricey option and though they probably sell a ton of them, its a small percentage compared to all the gassers. One less engine option makes production significantly easier/cheaper.

Everyone I talk to, or anyone who drives my truck seems to love it. They all seem to want it but the moment they realize it does take some special care they are immediately out. Then they buy a v8 f150/250, lift it, put 33-35'' tires on it and get 11-12mpg and I think to myself what you did there is likely more costly but different strokes for different folks.
For me, it was never my intent to make up the cost of getting this engine. I prefer it, I like the way it drives and I simply wanted it. I like maintaining my own vehicles and this one is definitely special in good and bad ways but so far its been amazing. I have a big bladder so getting nearly 900miles on one tank is awesome. Find me another vehicle that will do that.
It seems to be everyone's low blow to immediately criticize how you will never make up the cost of the engine. Though I'm not sure how people make up the cost of the v8 over the v6, the limited over a bighorn or the 12'' touch screen over the 8.4''. We all buy these things because we like/want them. If we were all so considered about cost we would have bought the base 1500 Classic RAM offered or other cheaper/simpler trucks.

I check this forum often (almost daily for the last 2yrs) and so far it doesn't seem like people are having to many issues (yet) with this motor apart from the timing chain cover leak. The fuel pump recall is a bit concerning but hopefully they replace it with a proper pump. I'm glad I ordered mine when I did and hopefully it stays strong for me!

 

[Mattiusmaximus1216]

Getting the ecoD was a cheaper option for me. I purchased it for cheaper than what the hemi was going for.

 

[nc_beagle]

It seems to be everyone's low blow to immediately criticize how you will never make up the cost of the engine. Though I'm not sure how people make up the cost of the v8 over the v6, the limited over a bighorn or the 12'' touch screen over the 8.4''. We all buy these things because we like/want them. If we were all so considered about cost we would have bought the base 1500 Classic RAM offered or other cheaper/simpler trucks.

If the Eco has a higher resale value than an otherwise identical Hemi, then it doesn't have to recoup all its additional cost in fuel savings as you get some back when you sell/trade.

I've not researched to see if it actually does hold a higher value at trade-in, though.

 

[djevox]

If the Eco has a higher resale value than an otherwise identical Hemi, then it doesn't have to recoup all its additional cost in fuel savings as you get some back when you sell/trade.

I've not researched to see if it actually does hold a higher value at trade-in, though.

My guess is trade in will depend on negotiating skills, just like normal. I see the dealer lying by saying “it’s not a common engine and has less value” to the uninformed consumer.

 

[tom318]

My guess is trade in will depend on negotiating skills, just like normal. I see the dealer lying by saying “it’s not a common engine and has less value” to the uninformed consumer.

I haven’t looked recently but when I was buying back in 2020 the ED used was more pricey than a hemi. My thought is what’s going to be worth more once it has 300k, Hemi or ED, neither will be worth much anyway. At the rate in which I accumulate miles I’ll be eating the depreciation big time regardless of what I bought. It will be interesting to see in a few years as EVs come in and the gen 3 ED developes it’s reputation what these will be worth once they have 200+k miles. Same with the Hemi as the no hybrid options are only moving forward. Is it going to be worth $1500 or $30k, time will tell. I could see it swinging either way. Maybe EVs will be great and all these diesels and non-hybrid trucks are worthless or the opposite.

 

[StuartV]

Every time I ever did a build on a Laramie or a Limited with everything else the same, the difference between a Hemi and an ED was $2200.

Funny how you never hear people talking about whether the Hemi is "worth" the extra money over the V6. Like, it's not even a question whether the Hemi will pay for itself vs a V6. But you do hear (read) that discussion about Hemi vs ED. "I'm not sure the ED will save me money in the long run..."

I had Hemis for 13 years and 260K miles. I've now put about 13K miles on my new-to-me ED. It may or may not cost me more, overall, to drive it versus a Hemi. And I don't really care. It like the way it drives better than a Hemi, so even if it does cost a bit more overall, that's fine. I'm driving what I LIKE the best.

That said, my brother has a '20 Hemi that is virtually identical to my truck. Both w/3.21 rear ends. We swapped last weekend and went for a drive together, so he could see how my ED drives. And I got to experience back-to-back apples to apples myself. To be honest, there really is not a lot of difference (to ME) in the way they both drive. I like the ED a little better, but the difference was not as big as I was expecting, even after all my prior experience having my own Hemi. If my next truck puts me back into a gasser, I think the single biggest thing I will miss is no longer being able to actually drive 750-ish miles before stopping for fuel.

 

[J-Cooz]

Every time I ever did a build on a Laramie or a Limited with everything else the same, the difference between a Hemi and an ED was $2200.

Funny how you never hear people talking about whether the Hemi is "worth" the extra money over the V6. Like, it's not even a question whether the Hemi will pay for itself vs a V6. But you do hear (read) that discussion about Hemi vs ED. "I'm not sure the ED will save me money in the long run..."

I had Hemis for 13 years and 260K miles. I've now put about 13K miles on my new-to-me ED. It may or may not cost me more, overall, to drive it versus a Hemi. And I don't really care. It like the way it drives better than a Hemi, so even if it does cost a bit more overall, that's fine. I'm driving what I LIKE the best.

That said, my brother has a '20 Hemi that is virtually identical to my truck. Both w/3.21 rear ends. We swapped last weekend and went for a drive together, so he could see how my ED drives. And I got to experience back-to-back apples to apples myself. To be honest, there really is not a lot of difference (to ME) in the way they both drive. I like the ED a little better, but the difference was not as big as I was expecting, even after all my prior experience having my own Hemi. If my next truck puts me back into a gasser, I think the single biggest thing I will miss is no longer being able to actually drive 750-ish miles before stopping for fuel.

Bingo, everybody seems obsessed with whether the diesel will save you any money or not.

I'm the same as you, I don't care. I drive 40,000km a year, and tow a lot in the winter. I had a Hemi and traded it on a diesel and couldn't be happier.


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[2021EcoDiesel]

Bingo, everybody seems obsessed with whether the diesel will save you any money or not.

I'm the same as you, I don't care. I drive 40,000km a year, and tow a lot in the winter. I had a Hemi and traded it on a diesel and couldn't be happier.


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I find myself in the exact same boat! I had a 2017 Hemi with 3.21 gears and I prefer how my Ecodiesel 3.92 drives. I paid ~3,000 more for the diesel optioned truck, but it was a custom order new truck, whereas the hemi was a left over that had been on the lot for 8 months. Now even with 34" tires I still manage to get 100-150 miles more per tank of fuel than the Hemi did.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

What's interesting is how many people talk about the EcoDiesel as if it's really about cost and savings. People pay extra for the hemi, not because it's going to save them in the long run, but because it's an ideal engine for their (perceived) needs. The pentistar is a perfectly suitable option for this truck, but the upgraded engines have their own benefits.

The EcoDiesel really shines because it does get unreal mileage. I just got 33.7 on the way up to Virginia.

Of course, monetary savings, it depends on whether or not I'm willing to pay about $4.50 for a gallon of diesel, so forget about money, here's why I got the diesel:

Because I hate the Hemi. I really don't like gas trucks that much, I spent the last 7 years with a gas truck, and it's fine, but it never really felt like a truck, it felt like a big car. If you want a truck to behave like a car and be fast like one, then sure. But cars don't really do truck things.

I rented a hemi Ram and I was super disappointed how it behaved and towed. It was constantly roaring to life, chomping at the bit. Accelerate from 69 to 70, it drops 4 gears and screams to life, but then it struggles to pull a light trailer.

The diesel is quiet, composed, torque is on tap. It cruises like a limo and tows like there's nothing back there. No drama to climb, no drama to descend. It gets 1000mi on a tank, plus I can easily store more diesel in the bed. The power and torque is always there, but I just don't need to floor it. It BEHAVES like a truck and has the capacity of a truck.

 

[70runner]

I wanted the diesel from the beginning. My 20yr old Kubota diesel has started everytime I've needed it. Granted the Kubota diesel is absent the complex smog systems required today. I'm 1.5yrs in @ 12kmi and love the truck. Took delivery in Wash state and drove to SOCAL, about 1400mi. One fuel stop, 28.7mpg, double my previous Tundra mpg. Comfortable and quiet with plenty of torque. Tows my car trailer with 70 Roadrunner embarked with ease while getting about 18mpg.

 

[Paco]

I used my 2014-Eco for 7 years for my tree company.
My biggest GVW was 19,000 lbs, I had several of these loads with my tandem dump trailer.
because it was used for towing heavy loads, my fuel costs dropped in 1/2 compared to my last gen Hemi.
Towing with the eco is where it really shined on fuel savings.

I just traded it in on a New 2022 Rebel eco.
It had 192,000 miles, and it did not use oil.

 

[J-Cooz]

What's interesting is how many people talk about the EcoDiesel as if it's really about cost and savings. People pay extra for the hemi, not because it's going to save them in the long run, but because it's an ideal engine for their (perceived) needs. The pentistar is a perfectly suitable option for this truck, but the upgraded engines have their own benefits.

The EcoDiesel really shines because it does get unreal mileage. I just got 33.7 on the way up to Virginia.
View attachment 147195
Of course, monetary savings, it depends on whether or not I'm willing to pay about $4.50 for a gallon of diesel, so forget about money, here's why I got the diesel:

Because I hate the Hemi. I really don't like gas trucks that much, I spent the last 7 years with a gas truck, and it's fine, but it never really felt like a truck, it felt like a big car. If you want a truck to behave like a car and be fast like one, then sure. But cars don't really do truck things.

I rented a hemi Ram and I was super disappointed how it behaved and towed. It was constantly roaring to life, chomping at the bit. Accelerate from 69 to 70, it drops 4 gears and screams to life, but then it struggles to pull a light trailer.

The diesel is quiet, composed, torque is on tap. It cruises like a limo and tows like there's nothing back there. No drama to climb, no drama to descend. It gets 1000mi on a tank, plus I can easily store more diesel in the bed. The power and torque is always there, but I just don't need to floor it. It BEHAVES like a truck and has the capacity of a truck.

Nailed it. The cost argument of the diesel is getting old. If we all wanted to save money we'd drive 2wd Bighorns with v6s, not a fully loaded Limited ecodiesel like I have.

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[VernDiesel]

This You tuber's assumptions & conclusions rarely ever seem to match with my actual experiences.

Ford shot themselves in the foot with their 3 liter diesel only offering it in expensive high trims or bare bones to fleets. See if you can find an XLT 3 liter diesel.. they are not out there. Tiny advertising budget. It was pulled before most Ford truck owners knew it existed. One 30 mpg average trip review from San Francisco to LA that the general public never knew of and it was gone. I have a Ford blue belt buckle wearing BIL who runs lots of miles with his pilot car business. Fuel costs eating his profits with the 302. Always jealous of my EDs mileage he wanted Fords version for years. Could never find one that wasn't mack daddy trim and stupid expensive.

Adam either a tune or pedal commander or 3.92s and you will have no problem leaving traffic at lights.

To the ED's demise in the Ram. As mentioned above the new corporate ownership is EV crazed and woke. If they could do it without being burned at the stake they would dump the Cummins to. But mostly its about Ram's grand plan for the 1500 which will kill all three engine choices Ecodiesel Hemi & Pentastar in favor the the coming 3 liter gasser. Instead of 3 engine choices depending on your needs and preferences you will get an alternate of choice with one engine. I think single turbo, twin turbo HO, and single turbo plus battery driven motor. But I may be surprised I know they have worked on other things as well. Edit well FLT just showed renderings the REV saying its going to be just or only an electric powered truck. Be a non starter my use.

Anyway I agree that it is ashame that after finally getting the Ecodiesel right they are killing it. My son has 55k on his 2022 GDE tuned ED. Loves it zero issues so far he also does pilot car work and literally averages 33 mpg piloting oversize loads. Fortunately with Ram just stopping taking orders in late January there are still new trucks hitting dealerships. I just did Ram price & build then locator out of the drop down menu and their is 593 new 2023s in a 250 mile radius plus a fair amount of 2022s so if you need one or want to trade your expired warranty 14-19 ED in nows the time. Having driven my sons 5th gen ED my 4th gen ED and my 22 2500 Cummins hands down I prefer the 5th gen ED except for when I have to tow big & heavy.