Hydrogen 6.2l

[TNRamGuy]

CarBuzz: Official: Dodge Replacing Hellcat With 800-HP Hydrogen-Powered 'Hydra'.

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[Scram1500]

Yamaha and Toyota are also working on a Hydrogen fuel V8

 

[Rick3478]

Getting ICE to burn hydrogen is not difficult. The big challenges are in storage and distribution.

 

[c3k]

The bigger challenge is PRODUCTION of H2.

H2 does not exist in nature...(at least, not in any quantities here on earth).

Think of H2 as a battery: it gets created using energy, then when it gets transformed, it releases energy.

Sources of H2? Usually by cracking hydrocarbons. Yep, gotta drill those fossil fuels. Or by splitting water. That takes gobs o'electricity. Those little H2 molecules are smaller than anything else and tend to leak. Also, the volume is something else. Hindenburg-size fuel trailers? Or, you liquify it. That's not dangerous...

High pressure H2 gas is it's own issue.

Anyway, once you introduce O2 to the H2, you get heat and water. That energy you put into making the H2 gets released. Well, not ALL of it is usable. You lose some. I don't know the efficiency numbers for making H2 or for converting H2 back out to H2O.

Gotta love it when "law makers" start telling engineers what to make and dictate to the market how to act.

 

[djevox]

Wow, they are on fire making technology solutions that are not viable.

 

[Vinnie.]

this was from April 1.... any chance it's a joke?

 

[jimothy]

this was from April 1.... any chance it's a joke?

it is in fact an April Fools’s joke; scroll up to the byline.

 

[devildodge]

It was actually an April Fools joke by Dodge and then the articles where written.

 

[devildodge]

Sorry...that was the yellow eye

 

[Goodone]

The bigger challenge is PRODUCTION of H2.

H2 does not exist in nature...(at least, not in any quantities here on earth).

Think of H2 as a battery: it gets created using energy, then when it gets transformed, it releases energy.

Sources of H2? Usually by cracking hydrocarbons. Yep, gotta drill those fossil fuels. Or by splitting water. That takes gobs o'electricity. Those little H2 molecules are smaller than anything else and tend to leak. Also, the volume is something else. Hindenburg-size fuel trailers? Or, you liquify it. That's not dangerous...

High pressure H2 gas is it's own issue.

Anyway, once you introduce O2 to the H2, you get heat and water. That energy you put into making the H2 gets released. Well, not ALL of it is usable. You lose some. I don't know the efficiency numbers for making H2 or for converting H2 back out to H2O.

Gotta love it when "law makers" start telling engineers what to make and dictate to the market how to act.

Hydrogen is the most plentiful element in the universe! It’s in all the water and oil and coal on this planet..
It can be stored in fuel cells using a lithium nickel metal base.
Making pure hydrogen is the issue. It takes electrolysis to remove it from oxygen in water, and it can be stripped from hydrocarbons, but it is the fuel we should be using.

PS: I am an engineer

 

[Eighty]

PS: I am an engineer

What kind of engineer?

 

[c3k]

Hydrogen is the most plentiful element in the universe! It’s in all the water and oil and coal on this planet..
It can be stored in fuel cells using a lithium nickel metal base.
Making pure hydrogen is the issue. It takes electrolysis to remove it from oxygen in water, and it can be stripped from hydrocarbons, but it is the fuel we should be using.

PS: I am an engineer

Well, so am I. At least, that’s what my degree shows.

Again, as I stated, H2 does not exist in that state in any quantities on Earth. Sure, it may be common in the universe, but on Earth almost every hydrogen atom is chemically bonded to other elements.

It takes ENERGY to release the hydrogen. Then, when you let the hydrogen recombine, you can get energy out of that reaction.

EXAMPLE: H2O can be cracked into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis, as you mention. That take…ENERGY. When hydrogen is burned in an oxygen atmosphere …yep, heat and WATER are the byproducts.

Again…H2 should be considered as a battery. It is a store of potential energy, but it takes energy to create the H2 molecule from its source. (Usually hydrocarbons. Lol.)

 

[jimothy]

Well, so am I. At least, that’s what my degree shows.

Again, as I stated, H2 does not exist in that state in any quantities on Earth. Sure, it may be common in the universe, but on Earth almost every hydrogen atom is chemically bonded to other elements.

It takes ENERGY to release the hydrogen. Then, when you let the hydrogen recombine, you can get energy out of that reaction.

EXAMPLE: H2O can be cracked into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis, as you mention. That take…ENERGY. When hydrogen is burned in an oxygen atmosphere …yep, heat and WATER are the byproducts.

Again…H2 should be considered as a battery. It is a store of potential energy, but it takes energy to create the H2 molecule from its source. (Usually hydrocarbons. Lol.)

That’s the way I think of hydrogen: a lightweight battery. If we built more nuclear plants, it could be a carbon-free energy source and one that doesn’t require strip mining. Wind, solar, and hydro could be used to produce hydrogen as well, but they require much more land. Using hydrocarbons to produce hydrogen is probably pointless, since the hydrocarbons could be used directly as fuel (though I’m no expert; maybe there’s an argument for this).

But yes, it’s useful to think of hydrogen as less of a fuel and more if a portable store of energy produced elsewhere by other means. I believe Japan is still pursuing this idea. They were, at least prior to Fukushima, more nuclear power friendly than the US.

 

[Goodone]

Well, so am I. At least, that’s what my degree shows.

Again, as I stated, H2 does not exist in that state in any quantities on Earth. Sure, it may be common in the universe, but on Earth almost every hydrogen atom is chemically bonded to other elements.

It takes ENERGY to release the hydrogen. Then, when you let the hydrogen recombine, you can get energy out of that reaction.

EXAMPLE: H2O can be cracked into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis, as you mention. That take…ENERGY. When hydrogen is burned in an oxygen atmosphere …yep, heat and WATER are the byproducts.

Again…H2 should be considered as a battery. It is a store of potential energy, but it takes energy to create the H2 molecule from its source. (Usually hydrocarbons. Lol.)

You are not wrong, but all fuel we use consumes energy to make it. The question is the actual energy balance to capture the Hydrogen and then the environmental controls needed for single point sources versus tail pipe emissions. I agree the fuel cell is a kind of battery, but it is the cleanest to use and emit.

I think when we have the Mr. Fusion, we will not need to worry about it as long as we have beer and banana peels.

LOL

 

[c3k]

You are not wrong,

Okay, I was right.

but all fuel we use consumes energy to make it.

True. But whereas a barrel of petroleum contains FAR more energy than it takes to drill it, pump it, refine it, and transport it, the same cannot be said for the energy extracted from the hydrogen cycle.

The question is the actual energy balance to capture the Hydrogen and then the environmental controls needed for single point sources versus tail pipe emissions. I agree the fuel cell is a kind of battery, but it is the cleanest to use and emit.

I think when we have the Mr. Fusion, we will not need to worry about it as long as we have beer and banana peels.

LOL

Yes, fusion is the future. Fission is an excellent bridge until we get there.

 

[SpeedyV]

True. But whereas a barrel of petroleum contains FAR more energy than it takes to drill it, pump it, refine it, and transport it, the same cannot be said for the energy extracted from the hydrogen cycle.

Nobody's arguing the effectiveness (i.e. energy density) of fossil fuels, lol.

It's just the millions of years that it takes to "generate" (new) crude oil that's the (not too distant) problem, as opposed to limitless resources of other fuel sources. Oh, and the carbon dioxide thing.

 

[c3k]

Nobody's arguing the effectiveness (i.e. energy density) of fossil fuels, lol.

Good.

It's just the millions of years that it takes to "generate" (new) crude oil that's the (not too distant) problem, as opposed to limitless resources of other fuel sources.

I've been hearing that we've been at "peak oil" since the early '70s. Shrug. (Not sure whether or not petroleum (hydrocarbons) are actually formed from squished dinosaurs and plants. That's a theory that was posited about 150 years ago and since accepted for fact. Note, I'm also NOT denying it. However, there are several planets in our solar systems which have atmospheres that are mostly (all?) hydrocarbons. There may be more to how petroleum is created (and how much there is) than squished dinosaurs and plants.

Just something to think about.

Oh, and the carbon dioxide thing.

^^^
Well, that's a faith-based thing. If you believe in it, nothing I say will dissuade you.